Leo’s advise about dating and sex are mostly aimed towards man

[CARDOZZO]

@Leo Gura

Episode Idea: The Harsh Truths of Relationships. 

Going deep on biology, social matrix, instinct, mental programming, ontology, metaphysics, pickup, mating strategy, polarities.

A Deep 2-Tier Relationships Series would be amazing.

Edited September 29 by CARDOZZO

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

If your narrative is going to be that most men are interested in women only to a superficial degree, isn't that already deeply offensive to men? 

I'm sure most men want something more in a woman than looks, as in they want the whole package, of course looks tend to hold priority for men, but they want a great personality and character along with looks. That's the vibe I'm getting from their posts. And even if they're superficially attracted to a woman's looks, it's mostly for casual sex or FWB one night stand kind of hook ups. Men who want a serious gf or a long term partner screen for much more than just looks in women. When you look at men with a reductionist lense, you end up generalizing them. 

 

No, my narrative is not that men are interested in women only to a superficial degree. That interpretation is a distorted comprehension and rephrasing of my point.... which then leads to a strawman argument.

What is being conveyed is that, in some communities—especially those focused on self-development—many men are attempting to enhance their experiences through external improvements without also addressing the underlying causes of their dissatisfaction. And so, they don't do much emotional introspection, and their efforts are more oriented towards external ways of getting satisfied.

In today’s society, there remains a strong orientation toward the masculine, which means that men often lack the opportunity to meet and understand the feminine on a deeper level, both in their initial conditioning as children and in their daily lives. Most of their interactions with the feminine are associated with pain, humiliation, and a range of negative feelings, which contributes to a further repression of the feminine. This is why these men find themselves in their current state regarding their relationships with the feminine.

But this state in these men, while not rare, is not 'the end game.' It stems from shame. Thankfully, there are plenty of men who are much more at ease with the feminine.

The reason these men wouldn't date the type of feminine women I am describing is simply that they can't. The shame within them seeks to hide, and there isn't much that can be concealed from someone with highly developed feminine energy.

By default, they would rather orient themselves toward women who appear culturally feminine but paradoxically lack a deeply developed feminine essence.

A woman trapped in this dynamic would have to continuously diminish her deep feminine qualities or halt her personal development to remain in such a relationship.

This is evident in many women who suppress their 'undesirable' feminine qualities while trying to maintain the facade of the desirable ones. These women are often referred to as self-hating or 'pick-me' types.

[bambi]

5 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

No, my narrative is not that men are interested in women only to a superficial degree. That interpretation is a distorted comprehension and rephrasing of my point.... which then leads to a strawman argument.

What is being conveyed is that, in some communities—especially those focused on self-development—many men are attempting to enhance their experiences through external improvements without also addressing the underlying causes of their dissatisfaction. And so, they don't do much emotional introspection, and their efforts are more oriented towards external ways of getting satisfied.

In today’s society, there remains a strong orientation toward the masculine, which means that men often lack the opportunity to meet and understand the feminine on a deeper level, both in their initial conditioning as children and in their daily lives. Most of their interactions with the feminine are associated with pain, humiliation, and a range of negative feelings, which contributes to a further repression of the feminine. This is why these men find themselves in their current state regarding their relationships with the feminine.

But this state in these men, while not rare, is not 'the end game.' It stems from shame. Thankfully, there are plenty of men who are much more at ease with the feminine.

The reason these men wouldn't date the type of feminine women I am describing is simply that they can't. The shame within them seeks to hide, and there isn't much that can be concealed from someone with highly developed feminine energy.

By default, they would rather orient themselves toward women who appear culturally feminine but paradoxically lack a deeply developed feminine essence.

A woman trapped in this dynamic would have to continuously diminish her deep feminine qualities or halt her personal development to remain in such a relationship.

This is evident in many women who suppress their 'undesirable' feminine qualities while trying to maintain the facade of the desirable ones. These women are often referred to as self-hating or 'pick-me' types.

I have no idea what you are saying, so I asked an AI to review, did it accurately sum up what you were attempting to say (it took 4 reinforcement attempts)?

The author believes that many men, especially in self-development circles, focus on improving the outside (status, looks, etc.) but neglect emotional growth. This lack of emotional depth means they struggle in relationships with women who are truly in touch with their emotions. Instead, they go for women who are less emotionally developed, and those women may suppress their true selves to fit in. The author is critical of both the men and the resulting relationship dynamic.

[Etherial Cat]

However, all of these criticisms aren't directed at men in general; they are aimed at certain men.

In my daily interactions, I engage with great men. Instead of encountering hostility, sarcasm, and arrogance, I experience respect, deeply engaging conversations, and overall wonderful connections.

Therefore, there’s no reason to be resentful in general, especially when there are straightforward ways to get your needs met.

All it takes is spending time in supportive environments and communities.

The bro-science and sad theories are merely reflections of someone else's beliefs that won't hold up against reality.

[Princess Arabia]

56 minutes ago, Davino said:

I'll get upset if you don't tell me the harsh truths 

Yes, but some of them are just based on his own personal experiences. There's no such thing as hard truths in relationships as everyone is different. Leo is not a relationship expert. A lot of things he says doesn't apply to all men or even all women and most don't even apply to me.

Edited September 29 by Princess Arabia

[Etherial Cat]

14 minutes ago, bambi said:

I have no idea what you are saying, so I asked an AI to review, did it accurately sum up what you were attempting to say (it took 4 reinforcement attempts)?

The author believes that many men, especially in self-development circles, focus on improving the outside (status, looks, etc.) but neglect emotional growth. This lack of emotional depth means they struggle in relationships with women who are truly in touch with their emotions. Instead, they go for women who are less emotionally developed, and those women may suppress their true selves to fit in. The author is critical of both the men and the resulting relationship dynamic.

It's difficult because the posts are somewhat cumulatives, and so are the conversations throughout the years.

I guess the summary is somewhat keeping some elements, but I am not satisfied with it's lack of depth.

I think if I could have summarized in 4 lignes what I wanted to say, I would have done so.

I don't think it's possible.

[CARDOZZO]

 

[bambi]

13 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's difficult because the posts are somewhat cumulatives, and so are the conversations throughout the years.

I guess the summary is somewhat keeping some elements, but I am not satisfied with it's lack of depth.

I think if I could have summarized in 4 lignes what I wanted to say, I would have done so.

I don't think it's possible.

Got it, but your writing lacks clarity or logical structure. Which makes it incredibly hard to follow. Its like a spew of conciousness or personal ramblings which lack any coherence. It also doesnt seem to follow the thread from what I can see, it isnt clear who or what you are adressing.

[MsNobody]

Leo giving advice on women to men on the thread where women are complaining he doesn't give advice to women about men.. 

His understanding of women is very limited, he calls women "girls", think about that for a minute... 

[gettoefl]

10 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

This is true only for criminals. The average man is a good man, what you're doing is fear mongering against men, it doesn't help. The average man is more worried about feeding his family and keeping his woman happy, not some creepy stranger in an alley waiting to rape women. You don't understand men because you aren't deeply connected with your own masculinity. This mentality that men are scary rapey wolves is pure stage red bullcrap for men who haven't evolved to stage green and above. Most modern men are highly civilized and would shudder at the thought of rape. I've been sexually harassed countless times yet several times it was men who rescued me so this thinking that men look at women with rapey eyes belongs to the dump basket. 

Man is a ruthless predator scheming to satiate his loins and this is 24-7 and not just in times of famine or war. Money trumps laws. (Didn't anyone mention Don One in this thread yet?) Food and shelter is a solved problem for most. Lower appetites remain unfulfilled for the majority.

Woman needs a strong protector because unconsciously she knows how vulnerable she is. A ring may announce her off limits. Though that won't stop the majority from chancing his luck.

[Javfly33]

damn, this subforum lowers my vibration every day more and more, 

do not call harsh truths to the lower vibratory thoughts of you guys mind...

No wonder you call them 'harsh'. If they feel like that we keep creating in your mind?

What you produce in your mind you create in the world, but seems few people have that consciousness right now. 

Edited September 29 by Javfly33

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

I think most men on the forum like a woman for more than just her hair, lipstick or handbag. I don't think it's that shallow. This is just my observation. Nowhere I saw them talking about wanting women in a shallow way. I think men on the forum and in general deeply crave feminine energy as it tends to be lacking in their lives when they are weaned of their mother's caring as they grow older. In society we expect men to be super confident and independent at an early age and many men experience isolation and loneliness and a lack of feminine figure in their lives. They want that deeply loving caring nurturing graceful feminine energy. 

I don't think that's what she means.

Men do crave deeper experiences with the Feminine and with women. They really deeply want that, in fact. And I 100% know that she recognizes that because I know her personally and we've discussed this topic a lot.

But men generally also have lots of fear and shame in regard to women and the Feminine, so they default to holding onto shallower paradigms of understanding relationships with women and how women operate that make them feel more in control of avoiding the shame they feel in relation to the Feminine.

And this semi-scientific reductionism of the female perspective on men and female sexuality makes men feel like they can 'figure it out' and mold themselves into the type of man that women want to be with.

But this also reduces women and Femininity in their intellectual framework, to a safer more understandable collection of symbols that can be understood logically.... like eyelashes, and handbags, and hourglass figures, etc.

And these are culturally and/or archetypally understood symbols of the Feminine that evoke the deeper desire for the Feminine... though these symbols are just surface-level representations.

But many men in certain Internet communities, want to hold tightly to these shallower and more understandable symbols and concepts so that they don't have to grapple with the mysteries, unknowns, and arational functioning that's inherent to the Feminine.

And there's also a lot of social reinforcement between men who hold these paradigms that encourages being strong, in control, detached, etc. 

But all of this actually backfires and keep men from developing the deeper relationships with women that most men deeply desire... but probably don't admit that even to themselves because it doesn't feel Masculine enough... either in the eyes of women or in the eyes of their male social group or both.

[Keryo Koffa]

43 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

  

You can always retune your frequencies to create a deflector shield.

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't match your experience because you are not looking at womankind as a whole but a few local cases.

Men have figured out long ago what women as a whole are attracted to. They use this knowledge to get laid. But from a woman's POV this knowledge is irrelevant and painful to look at.

It's not painful, it's just a misrepresentation to say that women are only attracted to the top 20% of guys and that everyone is just settling for their partner instead of preferring them if they're under the top 20%.

And it's annoying and frustrating to have your sexuality constantly misrepresented with such confidence and ignorance all at once.

But the real victims of this kind of misinformation is men... especially young inexperienced men.

It would be like if there was a woman with total and complete authority telling a bunch of younger inexperienced girls and women that, "You'll only be attractive to men if you are rail-thin and have under 5% body fat. And men will settle for you if you're over 5% body fat, but they will always prefer the thinner woman."

Then, when most men say that they're not really that attracted to rail-thin women... the women say some stuff like "Sure, men will say that. But they don't want to look at their REAL preferences because it's too painful for them to face with. They're either lying to themselves or lying to you."

And then you get tons of shame-filled women with eating disorders that feel like they can't eat and be loved at the same time.

And I remember what it was like to be in that mindset as a child and young teen. And it was really horrible.

And now, the same thing is happening with men and boys because of all these false narratives about female sexuality that are framed as "harsh truths".

 

[gettoefl]

Men and women process attraction differently

For him, it's a hell yes top down check list and how high up that list he will risk approaching based on his vibe that day

For her, it's a no or a maybe based on how i am feeling thanks to him in this moment

His agenda is wants in particular today, hers is needs in particular tomorrow

Different animals

[Davino]

3 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, but some of them are just based on his own personal experiences. There's no such thing as hard truths in relationships as everyone is different. Leo is not a relationship expert. A lot of things he says doesn't apply to all men or even all women and most don't even apply to me.

If this is true when he drops bomb, and it is, then it's equally true when he waters them down.

In other words, we are in the same signal-to-noise ratio dilemma, which I can figure out for myself.

For me the biggest sign of disrespect is hiding me the truth because you think I can't handle it. You have no idea how much confrotation I've had in my life the few times it happened. Hey let me be miserable, I exchange it for the Truth anytime. That's who I am. For a fact I know others are not like this and I respect them, even more, I treat them in accordance with their values.

Edited September 29 by Davino

[Davino]

4 hours ago, bambi said:

How old are you Davino?

As old as the night sky

[Davino]

@Emerald You are attracted to the top guys according to your values. If your values are shared with others or not is a different business altogether. You go from top to bottom and settle down with the highest you can acquire.

It's this business altogether that you are discussing and evidently so it changes from man to man and from woman to woman. Although some patterns have been found, according to gender, age, generation, culture, sexual orientation and so on; no broad generalizations will scratch the itch. Nevertheless, the big picture still stands: values and it's discovered patterns. 

What do I mean by values? I asked AI to pull some examples of this

 

Quote

1. Men's Attraction to Physical Beauty vs. Women's Attraction to Confidence/Status

Men’s attraction to physical beauty is often rooted in evolutionary biology, where youth and health (signified by clear skin, symmetrical features, and body proportions) suggest fertility.

Example: A man may be instantly drawn to a woman’s physical appearance, focusing on facial symmetry, skin health, and physical fitness, considering these subconsciously as markers of good genes.

Women’s attraction to confidence and leadership is tied to the need for security and the ability of a partner to provide resources and protection.

Example: A woman may be more attracted to a man’s social status, decisiveness, or leadership, considering these traits indicative of someone who can protect and provide for a family.

2. Men's Attraction to Youth vs. Women's Attraction to Maturity

Men tend to favor youth in women, often because it correlates with fertility.

Example: A man might prioritize dating younger women due to societal associations with vitality and potential for long-term partnership.

Women tend to prefer maturity in men, as maturity often suggests emotional stability and experience.

Example: A woman might be attracted to older men, perceiving their life experience as a sign of reliability and wisdom.

3. Men Value Physical Availability vs. Women Value Emotional Availability

Men are often drawn to physical availability, where sexual accessibility can be a key factor in early attraction.

Example: A man might show interest in a woman who displays openness to physical intimacy early on in their relationship.

Women tend to value emotional availability, looking for a partner who can connect on a deeper emotional level.

Example: A woman may be more drawn to a man who is expressive about his feelings and shows empathy, rather than one who is emotionally distant.

4. Men Prioritize Youth and Health vs. Women Prioritize Ambition and Financial Security

Men’s preference for youth and health is again tied to fertility and reproductive success.

Example: A man might place emphasis on finding a partner who is in prime physical health, even beyond just attraction, as it suggests better chances for healthy offspring.

Women often prioritize ambition and financial security because these traits reflect the potential for resource acquisition and long-term stability.

Example: A woman may prioritize a man’s career success or future potential, seeing it as a sign of stability for a family.

5. Men Are More Visually-Oriented vs. Women Are More Emotionally-Oriented

Men are highly visually oriented in their attraction, often focusing on physical appearance as a primary criterion for choosing a partner.

Example: Many men report being instantly attracted to certain physical features, such as a woman’s figure, facial features, or the way she dresses.

Women, on the other hand, are more emotionally-oriented, placing more weight on how they feel about the person and the emotional bond that forms.

Example: A woman might become attracted to a man after he demonstrates emotional intelligence or makes her feel deeply understood, even if the initial physical attraction wasn’t strong.

6. Men Are Attracted to Femininity vs. Women Are Attracted to Strength

Men often seek femininity, associating it with gentleness, nurturing, and care, which can symbolize emotional support.

Example: A man might be drawn to a woman who displays traditional feminine traits, such as softness in speech or a caring demeanor, viewing these as complementary to his own masculine identity.

Women often seek strength, in various forms, including physical strength, but more commonly strength of character.

Example: A woman might find a man who demonstrates resilience in the face of adversity to be highly attractive, seeing him as dependable and capable of protecting the relationship.

7. Men Seek Novelty and Excitement vs. Women Seek Stability and Consistency

Men are often more motivated by novelty, seeking excitement and stimulation in a relationship.

Example: A man might be attracted to women who are adventurous or spontaneous, associating these qualities with excitement and fun.

Women often seek stability, looking for consistency and reliability in a partner.

Example: A woman might prioritize a man who is predictable and grounded, seeing these traits as essential for long-term security and emotional well-being.

8. Men Are More Attracted to Submissiveness vs. Women Are Attracted to Assertiveness

Men may often be drawn to submissiveness in women, associating it with traditional gender roles and the idea of being the protector.

Example: A man might feel drawn to a woman who allows him to take charge, as it aligns with his desire to fulfill a dominant role in the relationship.

Women tend to prefer assertiveness in men, viewing it as a sign of confidence and leadership.

Example: A woman might find a man attractive when he is decisive and assertive in making plans or navigating conflicts, as it signifies strength and capability.

These asymmetries are not random but actually play and fit nicely into each other. Showing higher evolutionary wisdom that cannot be swept under the rug.

Edited September 29 by Davino

[lostingenosmaze]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm just gonna keep quiet.

Figure it out for yourselves.

I am tired of explaining harsh truths to people only to have them get upset at me.

Is an episode around this topic in the pipeline? Your takes on masculinity, all the good and the bad, things that the Red Pills exploit and realities that Stage Green people can't accept?

Edited September 30 by lostingenosmaze

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Davino said:

@Emerald You are attracted to the top guys according to your values. If your values are shared with others or not is a different business altogether. You go from top to bottom and settle down with the highest you can acquire.

It's this business altogether that you are discussing and evidently so it changes from man to man and from woman to woman. Although some patterns have been found, according to gender, age, generation, culture, sexual orientation and so on; no broad generalizations will scratch the itch. Nevertheless, the big picture still stands: values and it's discovered patterns. 

What do I mean by values? I asked AI to pull some examples of this

These asymmetries are not random but actually play and fit nicely into each other. Showing higher evolutionary wisdom that cannot be swept under the rug.

You're projecting the way you understand attraction onto women's sexuality. And you believe that women are just seeing men as a collection of objectively more or less attractive/valued qualities.

But that only accounts for like 20% of the picture. And ChatGPT was talking only about this 20% because those are the only things that can be generalized and understood about female sexuality.

But that doesn't account for the 80% of women's sexuality that operating off of patterns that are unique to her and are totally arational.

When a woman organically develops an attraction to a particular guy, it's like a wave forming in the ocean or a random weather pattern that starts to emerge. 

Certainly, there are some predictable conditions for this that men should learn if they want to be more successful with women in general. But just like a pattern in nature, there is only so much control that someone can exert. 

So beyond this 20%, the core of female attraction comes non-quantifiable, subjective, holistic, arational, passive perceptions of a man as a gestalt and not as a collection of qualities.

Like you can have two guys that are identical in all ways value-wise and attractiveness-wise, and a woman can feel everything for one of those guys and nothing for the other.

And a woman's patterning can lock in on a guy who isn't objectively more attractive or compatible because the feelings that arise are ineffable and unpredictable from the woman's perspective and the perspective of all outsiders.