What are examples of Stage Turquoise communities around the world?

[Nivsch]

4. No biohacks. No harsh session of "trauma releasing" or any kind of potentially too destabilizing activities from any kind. Everything is done in small or baby steps and according to the person's choices and intuition.

Edited September 28 by Nivsch

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I think a real Turquoise community cannot become a cult, but the emphasis is on REAL.

That such a community exists or can exist is already debatable. 

[Keryo Koffa]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

That such a community exists or can exist is already debatable. 

If they're too spiritual, the group presence will just accelerate them Ohming themselves into oblivion

[Carl-Richard]

On 27.9.2024 at 8:47 AM, Nivsch said:

The fact it isn't coherent is because each stage contains many values and facets when every time you hear only about a portion of it from another thinking discipline that partially copies things it heard from some gurus and not really describes a personal experience.

And even when describes a personal insights it uses words it heard from others to make it sounds "high" what creates an eco chamber that limits and narrowen the way the stage is being seen and you left with couple of main streams that constantly repeating their slogans over and over again. Then you see only Islands rather than a rich scale.

I honestly understood 0% of what you wrote.

[Nivsch]

@Carl-Richard If you can, direct me with questions. I don't know how to explain it in another way.

Edited September 28 by Nivsch

[Keryo Koffa]

On 9/27/2024 at 8:47 AM, Nivsch said:

The fact it isn't coherent is because each stage contains many values and facets when every time you hear only about a portion of it from another thinking discipline that partially copies things it heard from some gurus and not really describes a personal experience.

And even when describes a personal insights it uses words it heard from others to make it sounds "high" what creates an eco chamber that limits and narrowen the way the stage is being seen and you left with couple of main streams that constantly repeating their slogans over and over again. Then you see only Islands rather than a rich scale.

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I honestly understood 0% of what you wrote.

Simplified: People copy-paste stage traits without understanding their essence, muddling their meaning.

Book of Leo - Authority 51:35
"You think you can take the highest wisdom of the universe and you can just parrot it and ape it?
You think you're gonna get the results and benefits of it? Get the fuck out of here.
Who are you kidding? It doesn't work like that, you have to work for this wisdom.
You have to derive it for yourself, it has to be totally owned by you."

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Simplified: People copy-paste stage traits without understanding their essence, muddling their meaning.

That's funny. I was just reading The Listening Society describing downward assimilation: taking symbolic code (language, culture) from a higher stage of cognitive complexity and using it at a lower stage of cognitive complexity. That's of course a concept I'm intuitively familiar with, but it's good to hear it being echoed.

But if that is what was meant, I still don't understand how it explains the incoherence of Turquoise.

By the way, The Listening Society claims Turquoise is incoherent because 1. it doesn't provide any critique towards Yellow (which I agree with), 2. the cognitive development it requires is simply too rare (which connects to 3.), and 3. it has no social manifestations (communities, institutions or organizations). It also describes Turquoise as "new-agey 'holistic' or 'integral' people", which echoes my hypothesis.

People who object to 3. (e.g. in this thread), are most certainly subject to the same New Age conflation that I used to explain why Turquoise is incoherent: American college hippies discovering Eastern mysticism is not equal to the emergence of a new symbolic code, nor is it indicative of the cognitive development required to understand it.

Edited September 29 by Carl-Richard

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

But if that is what was meant, I still don't understand how it explains the incoherence of Turquoise.

Every direct experience will be described in words of one of couple main thinking disciplines, and you will end up with "Islands" of different ways to describe this stage that seems very different fron one another because those disciplines aren't communicate with each other and use totally different words.

But if everyone would describe their experience with their own words, then you would see a great scale of experiences and it would be easy for you to draw connections from and see the coherent big picture of Turquoise.

If enough people would be already experienced with this stage it would be probably look that way. The rarity makes this look incoherent because the rarer the stage, the more its language will prone to be "spiritual" and less authentic, because when people understands the stage weakly, they will compensate with high words they have already heard.

Edited September 28 by Nivsch

[BlueOak]

Both stages have a recognition that all stages are in you and the community, but turquoise seems more communally focused.

I just dropped one of these links off but I'll give three to have a look at.

The one we are in now. If you see a thread and think that's not turquoise! Then that's a part of yourself you are rejecting, or unable to integrate (Yellow) in a communal form (Turquoise). One of the quickest and most painful ways to become more conscious is to go read something you dislike here and then reflect on the part of yourself, beating away in your own chest/mind you dislike.

https://access.tealswan.com/home

https://secretenergy.com/

https://integrallife.com/

If I were to surmise: Coral is the understanding everything is already coral, that's a ham-fisted way of putting it but I am not coral unless I enter an infinite love state again perhaps, and then I'll only partially be there at any one time. Which is exactly correct because the great majority of the planet is not there yet (and yet they are at the same time). 

All I've got down of Coral is:
I am all.
Everything is love.
Everything is reflected in me (inside/outside same thing)

[Nivsch]

@BlueOak Turquoise's communal component is Purplish in its quality.

Thats how I felt it from my moments of experience with Turquoise I think I started to have.

Edited September 28 by Nivsch

[Keryo Koffa]

@BlueOak Green turns Yellow by breaking relativity's symmetry through systemic analytical constructivism. 
Yellow turns Turquoise post systems thinking, when it merges metaphysically with the organic flow of reality.
Turquoise turns Coral when it transcends, converges & constructs its own gestalt by embodying reality itself.

• Yellow is an Android, smart but unattuned, without feeling.
• Turquoise is a self-sustaining plant synergizing with its environment.
• Corals are many in one, both plant & animal, dynamic metamorphic gestalts.

Yellow values Yin-Yang, Turqoise realizes Wu-Wei, and Coral transcends into the Autodual.

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Every direct experience will be described in words of one of couple main thinking disciplines, and you will end up with "Islands" of different ways to describe this stage that seems very different fron one another because those disciplines aren't communicate with each other and use totally different words.

But if everyone would describe their experience with their own words, then you would see a great scale of experiences and it would be easy for you to draw connections from and see the coherent big picture of Turquoise.

If enough people would be already experienced with this stage it would be probably look that way. The rarity makes this look incoherent because the rarer the stage, the more its language will prone to be "spiritual" and less authentic, because when people understands the stage weakly, they will compensate with high words they have already heard.

By "incoherent", I don't mean that the stage is incomprehensible or lacks internal inconsistency. It's that it's not consistent with the rest of the model (it doesn't critique or transcend the previous stage, Yellow), and it just also happens to be based on flawed empiricism (WEIRD bias). The description of Turquoise is in fact entirely comprehensible and internally consistent: it's the New Age religion of Western rich kids.

I really recommend The Listening Society by Hanzi Freinacht though. It's really sobering for anyone who is interested in Spiral Dynamics.

Edited September 29 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@BlueOak Green turns Yellow by breaking relativity's symmetry through systemic analytical constructivism. 
Yellow turns Turquoise post systems thinking, when it merges metaphysically with the organic flow of reality.
Turquoise turns Coral when it transcends, converges & constructs its own gestalt by embodying reality itself.

• Yellow is an Android, smart but unattuned, without feeling.
• Turquoise is a self-sustaining plant synergizing with its environment.
• Corals are many in one, both plant & animal, dynamic metamorphic gestalts.

Yellow values Yin-Yang, Turqoise realizes Wu-Wei, and Coral transcends into the Autodual.

Let me tell you word salad is fun until it has to interface with the real world.

[BlueOak]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@BlueOak Turquoise's communal component is Purplish in its quality.

Thats how I felt it from my moments of experience with Turquoise I think I started to have.

Can you expand this? Thanks.
 

7 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@BlueOak Green turns Yellow by breaking relativity's symmetry through systemic analytical constructivism. 
Yellow turns Turquoise post systems thinking, when it merges metaphysically with the organic flow of reality.
Turquoise turns Coral when it transcends, converges & constructs its own gestalt by embodying reality itself.

• Yellow is an Android, smart but unattuned, without feeling.
• Turquoise is a self-sustaining plant synergizing with its environment.
• Corals are many in one, both plant & animal, dynamic metamorphic gestalts.

Yellow values Yin-Yang, Turqoise realizes Wu-Wei, and Coral transcends into the Autodual.

Wu-Wei: Yes, effortless merging with reality can only happen meaningfully with a communal focus; it makes sense.
Yellow has emotions, but they are individual in nature and can be overridden by the logical half of the mind.

By post-systems thinking, I assume you mean less reliance on structured modeling of reality and more just going with it. 

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

(it doesn't critique or transcend the previous stage, Yellow)

Turquoise is very critic to the complexly navigated journey of Yellow and breaks that with vertical thinking when try to devote himself and find love to the current coordinate and place in the maze. Not necessarily in the here and now but to see the potential and greatness of his current place.

Edited September 29 by Nivsch

[Keryo Koffa]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Let me tell you word salad is fun until it has to interface with the real world.

Salads are among the healthiest foods you can add to your diet, supplying you with a fantastic source of nutrients.

Besides, someone has to live up to @nuwu's charming style in their absence

Edited September 29 by Keryo Koffa

[Keryo Koffa]

3 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Wu-Wei: Yes, effortless merging with reality can only happen meaningfully with a communal focus; it makes sense.
Yellow has emotions, but they are individual in nature and can be overridden by the logical half of the mind.

By post-systems thinking, I assume you mean less reliance on structured modeling of reality and more just going with it. 

Yes, imagine also that Turquoise extends Yellow's systems into qualia, turning away from previously established models to feel and perceive more directly the reality it affects and is a part of, as the embodied strange loop it realizes itself to be, blurring the line by analyzing fewer ideas and interfacing more with the source of those ideas, rendering many of them redundant overlays. At the same time, it is filled with vision, the ideas it comes up with and communicates are spontaneously generated and circumstantially fitting holographic simulations.

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Turquoise is very critic to the complexly navigated journey of Yellow and breaks that with vertical thinking when try to devote himself and find love to the current coordinate and place in the maze. Not necessarily in the here and now but to see the potential and greatness of his current place.

I don't understand what you mean by "complexly navigated journey" or "vertical thinking" or really most of what you said. But let's assume that's a critique ("transcend") of Yellow: what does it embrace ("include") from Yellow? 

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I don't understand what you mean by "complexly navigated journey" or "vertical thinking" or really most of what you said. But let's assume that's a critique ("transcend") of Yellow: what does it embrace ("include") from Yellow? 

See then I am probably guilty too of using high words (;

I will try later to explain it in simpler words.

Edited September 29 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@Carl-Richard

If Orange thought about progress in a more linear mannar like to climb a mountain, Yellow feels life is like a great maze. You progress, when always has to do compromises, but many steps "back" are actually insightful too anyway. The trajectory isn't always clear but you have a clear general direction that getting slightly updated all the time. You can much more enjoy the process than Orange could in his neurotic way.

What is the problem though? That most of the time you can still get lost in the process and feel frustration when realize that at least part of the progress was either delusional - because you got so in love with this notion - or true but not fulfilling enough.

Turquoise starts to doubt the progress paradigm, and seek to break this glass ceiling in standing on the current point he found in the maze, looking at the flowers growing at the side of the walk, and see much more potential and opportunity in his current place. He starts to apply Love and deeper appreciation to his current position and from this gains more insights.

Edited September 30 by Nivsch