What are examples of Stage Turquoise communities around the world?

[Nivsch]

21 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Imagine turning the current real actualized Reality into a lucid dream equivalent.:
Everything you interact with is a form created by your infinite subconscious holarchies
You can morph every piece of materialized reality and navigate space and time freely.
Everything is a holistic associatory network,

This part sounds interesting.

In the other hand the Solipsism or God realization I wouldn't connect to any stage and not so resonate with them. Though the Love thing I embrace.

Anyway Turquoise is the stage I think I started to feel moments of here and there and this is why I am passionate to talk about it.

But Coral I have never felt yet so I don't want to say anything about a stage I don't feel any experience with, but I will think about your points on it.

Edited September 25 by Nivsch

[Keryo Koffa]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Thanks for thinking on my points too, your summary seems nice to me. The construct aware though is a thing I am not sure regard it and don't know where to place it.

Yeah, I admit, that one was kind of a tag on, I wanted to keep the overall very short and it's kind of a nexus.
But it's not really directly referenced anywhere in there, it simply ties many of the central aspects together.

For example recognizing reality to be self-constructed enables experimentation with perspectives.
It leads to the realization of ideas as cultural conditioning of a "normal mind" or "normal path".
It's also loosely implied in "transcending disorders" and "embracing their structure"

But all of that is just retropicking, my thought process was "How can I make this under 90 letters, sorry

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

For example recognizing reality to be self-constructed enables experimentation with perspectives.
It leads to the realization of ideas as cultural conditioning of a "normal mind" or "normal path".
It's also loosely implied in "transcending disorders" and "embracing their structure"

Well its really a thing that Construct Awareness can be seen also in this way. Interesting perspective. This is a very loose term that can, apparently, be interpreted in many ways.

Edited September 25 by Nivsch

[Keryo Koffa]

Just now, Nivsch said:

Well its really a thing that Construct Awareness can be seen also in this way. I didn't think about it.

Now that I actually wrote about it, it kinda sounds like Green. All the construct/narrative awareness

Oh, "here we go again", now I have to go in depth with ChatGPT to figure out the boundaries again

The main distinction usually noted is the re-emergence of structure after relativism, aware Constructivism

But that's more like a construct-navigation/creation/synthesis ability, Green has beat it to Awareness itself

[Keryo Koffa]

41 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

This part sounds interesting.

In the other hand the Solipsism or God realization I wouldn't connect to any stage.

Anyway turquoise is the stage I started to feel moments of here and there and this is why I am passionate to talk about it.

But Coral I think I have never felt yet so I don't want to say anything about a stage I don't feel any experience with, but I will think about your points on it.

For me, I wanted to transcend all of reality and enter the omniscience beyond.
So my "coral trip" was an infinite singularity of complete universal convergence.
Much of it, I consider zooming ever faster and deeper past Turquirse.

To me, the main difference lies in focus and other-transcendent embodiment.
While Turquoise leads humanity with spirit, Corals are completely submerged.
In a way, Turquoise is the Boddhisatva Surface of the Ocean that Coral dives in.

But I wouldn't say Coral is pure Solipsism or Formless or anything like that.
Constructing & becoming something means immediate experiential empathy.
You are complete and omnipotent as a holon, yet you are not alone.
Consciousness coordinates at all scales, with awareness and perspective.
There is constant creation, deconstruction, self-construction, and exploration.

I see it as: "Every drop in the Ocean carries within itself the entirety of the Ocean"
And from every drop, a new Ocean emerges, all connected, all sovereign Holons.
Each drop adds a perspective previously absent in its immersive self-exploration
And the drops together also synergize waves, that carry forward collectively.

But I don't consider myself grounded in Coral, I had profound experiences.
And I have many many stages to integrate still, that Trip was very frantic.
And yet I remember and it recontextualizes everything before still.

Edited September 25 by Keryo Koffa

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Green has beat it to Awareness itself

Yes but Green demonizes the construct 😝

Edited September 26 by Nivsch

[integration journey]

9 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

For me, I wanted to transcend all of reality and enter the omniscience beyond.
So my "coral trip" was an infinite singularity of complete universal convergence.
Much of it, I consider zooming ever faster and deeper past Turquirse.

To me, the main difference lies in focus and other-transcendent embodiment.
While Turquoise leads humanity with spirit, Corals are completely submerged.
In a way, Turquoise is the Boddhisatva Surface of the Ocean that Coral dives in.

But I wouldn't say Coral is pure Solipsism or Formless or anything like that.
Constructing & becoming something means immediate experiential empathy.
You are complete and omnipotent as a holon, yet you are not alone.
Consciousness coordinates at all scales, with awareness and perspective.
There is constant creation, deconstruction, self-construction, and exploration.

I see it as: "Every drop in the Ocean carries within itself the entirety of the Ocean"
And from every drop, a new Ocean emerges, all connected, all sovereign Holons.
Each drop adds a perspective previously absent in its immersive self-exploration
And the drops together also synergize waves, that carry forward collectively.

But I don't consider myself grounded in Coral, I had profound experiences.
And I have many many stages to integrate still, that Trip was very frantic.
And yet I remember and it recontextualizes everything before still.

Damn, you really know your stuff. 

Edited September 26 by integration journey
Grammer

[Keryo Koffa]

5 hours ago, integration journey said:

Damn, you really know your stuff. 

I'd sure hope so, dying on psychedelics ain't easy, ya know? 😁

[Carl-Richard]

On 25.9.2024 at 3:14 AM, Carl-Richard said:

I'm starting to think maybe Turquoise is an incoherent stage due to the way the model was constructed, back with Clare Graves using person interviews.

The problem of course boils down to the problem with WEIRD samples (Western, Educated, Industrialized, etc.); "Western people" for short. When Western people reach high Tier 1 or early Tier 2 and get statistically more familiar with New Age ideas, particularly Eastern-inspired non-duality, maybe this then becomes their new highest value system when asked about it in interviews, even though it's trans-personal/trans-cognitive and it's possible to happen earlier in the Spiral (like it has for millenia), producing what appears as Turquoise. Had instead the sample been more universal (including particularly people from Eastern cultures), then this confounding variable of Eastern spiritual beliefs would've been ruled out much more easily.

So Turquoise essentially ends up becoming this bastardized mix of Green-Yellow cognition and Eastern spiritual ideas, only because we based the model on rich kids in American universities and not much else. But I would have to study the particular methods used in more in detail before making any firm conclusions.

Does anybody have access to The Listening Society by Hanzi Freinacht? They write a chapter about "Death to Turquoise". They also believe the stage as currently conceptualized is not coherent. Do they say anything similar to what I said?

@DocWatts

Edited September 26 by Carl-Richard

[Nivsch]

@Carl-Richard There is a response article that explains why there is no reason to assume metamodernism is the highest Here

Edited September 26 by Nivsch

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Carl-Richard There is a response article that explains why there is no reason to assume metamodernism is the highest Here

I read it earlier today and it didn't tell me anything new about Hanzi's position, and what they said about Turquoise only confirms my suspicion (that Turquoise is an incoherent stage). Also, the author is high on his own farts.

Edited September 26 by Carl-Richard

[Heaven]

The Maya in Mexico and the Amish in the US. Or you can live in Vegas in Leo’s basement(Turquoise vibes guaranteed).

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I read it earlier today and it didn't tell me anything new about Hanzi's position, and what they said about Turquoise only confirms my suspicion (that Turquoise is an incoherent stage). Also, the author is high on his own farts.

The fact it isn't coherent is because each stage contains many values and facets when every time you hear only about a portion of it from another thinking discipline that partially copies things it heard from some gurus and not really describes a personal experience.

And even when describes a personal insights it uses words it heard from others to make it sounds "high" what creates an eco chamber that limits and narrowen the way the stage is being seen and you left with couple of main streams that constantly repeating their slogans over and over again. Then you see only Islands rather than a rich scale.

Edited September 27 by Nivsch

[LoneWonderer]

I have been reading up on Auroville. Looks like you can do 6-12 month volunteering projects there. It sounds like a great way to connect and learn from people with similar inclinations to those found here on this forum. Do any of you have any experiences in relation to Auroville? Why would you or wouldn't you give such a community a shot?

[UnbornTao]

It's already quite difficult by itself to find one deeply conscious individual, much less a community. I'd argue that looking for "turquoise" communities is a pipe dream, easily lends itself to fantasizing, and the idea of it would make the community quickly degrade into a social pretension or cult–basically because a model is a model, and people are people.

Edited September 28 by UnbornTao

[LoneWonderer]

@UnbornTao thank you for your perspective. Yes, I'm scared of this aspect a bit. They do seem to have been around since the 1960s which is a very long time by cult community standards. They seemed to have avoided major cult traps so far and avoided implosion.

Edited September 27 by LoneWonderer

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

I mean, it's already pretty hard by itself to find one deeply conscious individual, much less a community. In fact, I'd argue that looking for "turquoise" communities is a pipe dream, easily lends itself to fantasizing, and would quickly degrade into a cult or similar. (Basically because a model is a model, and people are people).

I think a real Turquoise community cannot become a cult, but the emphasis is on REAL.

[Buck Edwards]

54 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I think a real Turquoise community cannot become a cult, but the emphasis is on REAL.

Real spiritual people are hard to find. What should the metric be? 

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Real spiritual people are hard to find. What should the metric be? 

Some rise in my head that at least negate green and past it:

1.Flexibility

2. Acknowledging everyone's different inner (hidden) logic.

3. Moral principals rooted in Health of mind of one and others as more important than equality.

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, Nivsch said:

Some rise in my head that at least negate green and past it:

1.Flexibility

2. Acknowledging everyone's different inner (hidden) logic.

3. Moral principals rooted in Health of mind of one and others as more important than equality.

Thank you.