How to make sense of technology?

[Princess Arabia]

None of this would be possible if the Universe didn't operate the same way. Notice how the mind operates like a computer. Everything is energy, therefore electricity can emulate that. There is intelligence at play here and things are always communicating with each other like human cell to cells, trees to trees through the roots and much more that's why communication is possible. All this technology you see as far as how they operate and was put together emulates how the Universe works including algorithms. 

Notice how Youtube suggests videos it thinks you are interested in because of our focus and attention. Same thing with the Universal laws. Where you place your focus is where you place your energy, and you get things that match your frequency and vibration. That's how YT is able to have that feature because that's how the Universe operates. 

Also remember that It's Universal intelligence that's flowing throughout everything and is using man to do it's creation, So, when you see all these things being created by man, that's being done with the help of this Universal intelligence. Humans ain't doing shit on their own.

Edited Monday at 12:13 AM by Princess Arabia

[Someone here]

@Princess Arabia what's your IQ?

Edited Monday at 01:02 AM by Someone here

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

I seriously don't understand how someone could go from random pieces of metal and whatever else to a computer screen  for example or chat gpt ..AI and quantum computes and so forth . Or a processor or any of that stuff. How did they know it would do that? How do parts have the abilities to be programmed to do that?

This is one big reason why people think AIs are conscious. They look at a computer and think "magic". Meanwhile, if you actually study the engineering down to being able to build these things essentially from scratch, then these things start to look less magical and more mundane. Then the true mysteries like consciousness are understood to be nowhere near such mundane activities like building tiny electrical circuits.

This is what I intuit from listening to Bernardo Kastrup, someone who has studied computer engineering to the deepest levels, to being able to build computers from scratch on his spare time, and who has worked with some of the most advanced computer technology professionally, and who also knows a thing or two about metaphysics. When he looks at a computer, he sees water pipes and valves, completely mundane things, and he scoffs at people who think it has anything to do with consciousness. I'm fascinated by this, as I've always wanted to know how computers work, but just like you, I never took the time to get into it.

 

Edited Monday at 01:20 AM by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

On 23/09/2024 at 4:16 AM, Carl-Richard said:

This is one big reason why people think AIs are conscious. They look at a computer and think "magic". Meanwhile, if you actually study the engineering down to being able to build these things essentially from scratch, then these things start to look less magical and more mundane. Then the true mysteries like consciousness are understood to be nowhere near such mundane activities like building tiny electrical circuits.

This is what I intuit from listening to Bernardo Kastrup, someone who has studied computer engineering to the deepest levels, to being able to build computers from scratch on his spare time, and who has worked with some of the most advanced computer technology professionally, and who also knows a thing or two about metaphysics. When he looks at a computer, he sees water pipes and valves, completely mundane things, and he scoffs at people who think it has anything to do with consciousness. I'm fascinated by this, as I've always wanted to know how computers work, but just like you, I never took the time to get into it.

 

What's Bernardo's qualification in metaphysical stuff ? I saw him appearing on so many podcasts that discussed consciousness and mysticism..if he is professional in computer science he must  be a materialist...why are you so in love with him after all ?😁

Anyways..I think it's only  a matter of time before we create conscious AIs ..you really think there are limits or restrictions upon whats possible within the next couple of centuries in terms of technological advancement? 

On 23/09/2024 at 4:02 AM, Someone here said:

@Princess Arabia what's your IQ?

@Princess Arabia can you answer this ?

Edited Tuesday at 01:19 PM by Someone here

[Jannes]

It's not like someone invented all these ideas from zero. It started with simple technical ideas which got taught over generations. Bright minds could then invent inventions on top of the existing inventions. Thats how technology slowly progressed. Of course nobody got the idea that by bending metal a certain way you could invent chat gpt that was only possible through the process so far. 

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

What's Bernardo's qualification in metaphysical stuff ?

He has one PhD in computer science and another PhD in philosophy of mind (ontology). So you could say he is qualified to talk about both metaphysics and computer science.

That said, a PhD just means you spent around 3 years writing about a very niche topic. I think having a life long personal interest in something, given that you're able to put yourself through the same level of rigor and discipline on your free time, goes way deeper than a PhD. This is evident by the fact that Bernardo only spent 1 year (and one week) completing his last PhD because he had basically already written all of it before he started.

 

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

I saw him appearing on so many podcasts that discussed consciousness and mysticism..if he is professional in computer science he must  be a materialist...why are you so in love with him after all ?😁

He is not a materialist. He is an idealist who is not allergic to scientific thinking. And that is why I admire him.

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:50 AM by Carl-Richard

[Ero]

On 22/09/2024 at 7:44 PM, Someone here said:

.can you please tell me how do we go from manual machine to discovering electricity and how was the internet and computers developed? 

You understand that each of these technological revolutions has entire books written about it, right? That is not something I or anyone can give you in a few paragraphs.

If you are serious about understanding it, you will have to spend a lot of time reading. The book I referenced is a start due to the framework it provides. Once you’ve finished it, I can recommend you technology-specific resources. You can’t sit around and wait for it.

[Princess Arabia]

On 9/22/2024 at 9:02 PM, Someone here said:

@Princess Arabia what's your IQ?

Idk. Never did an IQ test. Why, do I sound dumb?

 

[Carl-Richard]

13 hours ago, Someone here said:

Anyways..I think it's only  a matter of time before we create conscious AIs ..you really think there are limits or restrictions upon whats possible within the next couple of centuries in terms of technological advancement?

Intelligent AIs, yes. Conscious AIs? That's a different question. If you're like Bernardo Kastrup, conscious AI just means artifically created life, i.e. abiogenesis. That could happen in a few centuries too, but that's a bit different than proposing that silicon chips (melted sand and metal) can become conscious.

Now, I'm clearly nowhere near as qualified as Bernardo to speak on this, but it makes me feel a little queasy when he scoffs at the idea of "AI ethics", simply because he is convinced such a thing is basically impossible. It gives images of a frenologist scoffing at the idea of human rights for African slaves during a presentation about their skull shapes. It's not impossible that he could be wrong, and to me, I would've preferred to be humble, but again, maybe he just thinks it's that ridiculous that he can't even pretend to be humble about it.

But again, I do intuit the perspective of perceiving computers as just a pile of rocks, and certainly with the current conception of what a computer is, that perspective could be valid.

Edited Wednesday at 02:24 AM by Carl-Richard

[Elisabeth]

On 9/22/2024 at 5:24 PM, Someone here said:

I seriously don't understand how someone could go from random pieces of metal and whatever else to a computer screen  for example or chat gpt ..AI and quantum computes and so forth . Or a processor or any of that stuff. How did they know it would do that? How do parts have the abilities to be programmed to do that?

I suggest you try to break down your question into smaller pieces, then perhaps you are even able to answer it yourself.
1) how did people learn metal processing?
2) how did they go from crude metal tools and weapons to fine precision processing like clockwork?
3) how did people come up with laws of mathematics and physics? (do you know anything about Kepler and Newton? they are a great example)
4) how does a steam engine work? how does a car work? how did people come up with either?
5) how was electricity invented?
6) Who came up with the idea for a computer? How did the very first computer work? (If you can understand how people come up with a clockwork or a car, it should not be that much of a leap to understand how someone can come up with the idea for a computer - though it is a qualitative leap.)
7) how does the internet work?

8) how does AI work? (Now, to understand this well you might need to know some about computer programming and mathematical optimisation, but there are probably elementary explanations you can read without any of that.)

See how it's a step-by-step process of innovation, each invention "standing on the shoulders of giants"?
Does this help?
I cannot answer your question better since I have no idea about the depth you want to go into, and whether a technical or a historical perspective is more satisfying to you (or maybe you're looking for something completely different).

[Phil King]

 

[Sho fio]

Same problem here very hard to understand. And its getting broader and easier to use but harder to understand. I think the more we use it like phones the more we train the machine learning of things. The rest of things is very hard to understand.

[Someone here]

On 24/09/2024 at 8:08 PM, Jannes said:

It's not like someone invented all these ideas from zero. It started with simple technical ideas which got taught over generations. Bright minds could then invent inventions on top of the existing inventions. Thats how technology slowly progressed. Of course nobody got the idea that by bending metal a certain way you could invent chat gpt that was only possible through the process so far. 

Yes of course.  It was accumulation of knowledge throughout centuries. 

But it has gone exponential in the last two centuries . Hoe do you explain that ? Air planes were discovered in the 18th century.  And now we have chat gpt ..how do you explain this ?

[Someone here]

On 24/09/2024 at 8:18 PM, Carl-Richard said:

He has one PhD in computer science and another PhD in philosophy of mind (ontology). So you could say he is qualified to talk about both metaphysics and computer science.

That said, a PhD just means you spent around 3 years writing about a very niche topic. I think having a life long personal interest in something, given that you're able to put yourself through the same level of rigor and discipline on your free time, goes way deeper than a PhD. This is evident by the fact that Bernardo only spent 1 year (and one week) completing his last PhD because he had basically already written all of it before he started.

 

He is not a materialist. He is an idealist who is not allergic to scientific thinking. And that is why I admire him.

 

Thanks Carl . Does he have any free ebook about the hard proplem of consciousness and materialisim? 

You say he is an idealist but I don't quite remember where did he say that consciousness is epiphenomenon from neurology. 

He is a brilliant guy brw .

[Someone here]

On 25/09/2024 at 4:12 AM, Princess Arabia said:

Idk. Never did an IQ test. Why, do I sound dumb?

 

No I actually meant the opposite. That you are very intelligent. 

Why are you insecure lol 😂? 

[Someone here]

On 25/09/2024 at 2:36 PM, Elisabeth said:

I suggest you try to break down your question into smaller pieces, then perhaps you are even able to answer it yourself.
1) how did people learn metal processing?
2) how did they go from crude metal tools and weapons to fine precision processing like clockwork?
3) how did people come up with laws of mathematics and physics? (do you know anything about Kepler and Newton? they are a great example)
4) how does a steam engine work? how does a car work? how did people come up with either?
5) how was electricity invented?
6) Who came up with the idea for a computer? How did the very first computer work? (If you can understand how people come up with a clockwork or a car, it should not be that much of a leap to understand how someone can come up with the idea for a computer - though it is a qualitative leap.)
7) how does the internet work?

8) how does AI work? (Now, to understand this well you might need to know some about computer programming and mathematical optimisation, but there are probably elementary explanations you can read without any of that.)

See how it's a step-by-step process of innovation, each invention "standing on the shoulders of giants"?
Does this help?
I cannot answer your question better since I have no idea about the depth you want to go into, and whether a technical or a historical perspective is more satisfying to you (or maybe you're looking for something completely different).

Thank you .

Yes I want both technical and historical perspective. 

I obviously studied science and physics In school . But ever since I left high school I avoided anything related to math and science because I hated these subjects. I would actually get nightmares about mathematics before my exams lol. That's why .

 

[Jannes]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes of course.  It was accumulation of knowledge throughout centuries. 

But it has gone exponential in the last two centuries . Hoe do you explain that ? Air planes were discovered in the 18th century.  And now we have chat gpt ..how do you explain this ?

There are only so many combinations you can make out of a few ideas. With more existing ideas the possibilities for combining these ideas rises exponentially also. It's like math, there are 6 possibilities to order the numbers 123 and there are 720 possibilities to order the numbers 123456. Of course thats not exactly how it is in the real world but you get the idea. 

Maybe also some very crucial ideas were invented which allowed for a lot more possibilities. 

We are also a lot more people on earth and have higher living standards which helps.

[Jannes]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

But ever since I left high school I avoided anything related to math and science because I hated these subjects. I would actually get nightmares about mathematics before my exams lol. That's why .

Didnt you open a topic once where you said that you love math? 

[Ero]

38 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Didnt you open a topic once where you said that you love math? 

The two are not mutually exclusive. I love math (currently studying grad stuff) and yet I’ve had nightmares and fever dreams as recent as last semester.

[Ero]

44 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes I want both technical and historical perspective.

You are not getting either on this forum. Most people here would need to brush up on their HS math before they can explain anything to you.