Without consciousness there is no physical world?

[Keryo Koffa]

15 minutes ago, AION said:

Probably they have. It recognizes that consciousness is an integral part of the fabric of reality as far as I understand it. 

Haven't heard of it. Also, really? Every scientist I hear talking about it is called woo-woo crazy by the scientific community.

[Davino]

@Leo Gura What is Consciousness?

How would you answer to that question with your current understanding?

It has become the top #1 question to answer for me right now. I would appreciate deeper pointers than what you have already offered.

Edited September 23 by Davino

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Leo Gura What is Consciousness?

How would you answer to that question with your current understanding?

Infinite Imagination.

An imagination that dreams all possible realities.

Edited September 23 by Leo Gura

[Keryo Koffa]

6 minutes ago, Davino said:

What is Consciousness?

" Life Consciousness is like the fragrance of jasmine upon gentle spring breeze" - Sadhguru 😁

Edited September 23 by Keryo Koffa

[Davino]

@Leo Gura I'm going in the good direction then. Thanks 

[Keryo Koffa]

@Davino Consciousness is whatever you want it to be, there we go!

[El Zapato]

30 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Quantum Mechanics is a Theory and Leo Gura is its Proof 😜

Also, has QM ever defined what an Observer is?

I'm coming off the wall a bit, but the cosmos can 'anticipate' that an observer will observe.  I'll use one of my favorite hated creatures to propose a guess. Ants have not been used in experiments thus far.

[Keryo Koffa]

Just now, El Zapato said:

I'm coming off the wall a bit, but the cosmos can 'anticipate' that an observer will observe.  I'll use one of my favorite hated creatures to propose a guess. Ants have not been used in experiments thus far.

Wow, the cosmos must be very observant then! Almost like it observes the observers into observance 😁

[El Zapato]

@Keryo Koffa Not a bad thought and worth considering.

[AION]

Consciousness is awareness of I am  that I am.

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, AION said:

Consciousness is awareness of I am  that I am.

This is what I described as the 1st meaning, Your individually Aware of Reality and Truth.. 

We seem on this thread to be talking about the 2 definitions I laid out and intermixing it in our discussions, some talking about my 1st description as above, and others talking about the 2nd description where Consciousness is the same as Brahman or Shiva.

I wouldn't use words like "Imagination or Dream" as those invoke a sense of not real, much rather say Consciousness is Infinite Intelligence that is both a creative force and non creative force since it was there before all Creation happened..

Edited September 23 by Ishanga

[_Archangel_]

@AION

2 hours ago, AION said:

That is insane but we will never know I guess. Because you have to be out of your mind to see if there is anything outside of it. 

To say that there is something outside of Consciousness (independent from it) is like saying that numbers are not infinte.
You dont need to count to infinity to know that numbers a infinite. Why? that's called intuition.
In the same say way reality/consciousness experience consist in an infinite imagination process that would incapsulate any possible "outside", since its "field" is infinite.

Whatever you imagine this space outside Consciousness to be, is non other then a thought made of Consciousness. 
The notion of "outside" and "inside" are both thoughts made of Consciousness, appearing in Consciousness.

[r0ckyreed]

OP makes a good point. There are plenty of things happening outside of your consciousness right now, which ofc exist inside of your consciousness once you become aware of them. 

Look at police brutality. Just because you aren’t aware of it now, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening right now outside of your awareness.

Look at children. They couldn’t exist without the sex their parents had, which you weren’t around to witness that. Yet, it happened. It would be foolish to say that children exist without coming out of a woman.

Edited September 23 by r0ckyreed

[AION]

26 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

OP makes a good point. There are plenty of things happening outside of your consciousness right now, which ofc exist inside of your consciousness once you become aware of them. 

Look at police brutality. Just because you aren’t aware of it now, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening right now outside of your awareness.

Look at children. They couldn’t exist without the sex their parents had, which you weren’t around to witness that. Yet, it happened. It would be foolish to say that children exist without coming out of a woman.

You don’t even have to look that far. Just look at your personal unconscious. There are a lot of things happening in your body while you aren’t aware of it. Like your heart beat or other psychological activities. Just because you are not aware of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. 
 

Comparing reality to a dream is problematic because a dream is lucid and the physics of a dream can change and bend. The physical doesn’t change or bend according to your mind in the same way. 
 

And secondly I believe in the collective unconscious. I believe everything that exist already is saved in the collective unconsciousness and we are just surfing the God’s hard drive through observing and going through it. 

[Keryo Koffa]

@AION @r0ckyreed There is a distinction made between Consciousness and Awareness in such discussions
Conscious-ness is the essence of awareness, a vast substrate in which all potential aware experiences exists

I think Leo argues that no experience outside your own occurs except for when you contruct by imagining it
That implies that subconscious patterns that drive perception and actualization simulate others and reality
Which of course is the case irregardless, but this perspective is more extreme, Non-Perception = Unactualized

I'm not really on board with that though, it sounds like Ego-Solipsism to me and creates an actualization duality
World is imagination and the pattern of its creation is an infinite fractal ripple lending reality to the "unactualized"

Edited September 23 by Keryo Koffa

[_Archangel_]

2 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Look at police brutality. Just because you aren’t aware of it now, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening right now outside of your awareness.

@r0ckyreed We've been through this already brah.
Notice how, while you write, images of policemens beating poeple are appearing in your experience: that is all you have. nothing is happening apart of what you are experiencing. Coeherence is a fundamental feature of Reality but that doesn't prove things are happening indipendently of your perception.

 

2 hours ago, AION said:

Comparing reality to a dream is problematic because a dream is lucid and the physics of a dream can change and bend. The physical doesn’t change or bend according to your mind in the same way.

@AION This is true, but at the same time is it'a useful analogy because it makes poeple disengage from materialism, because once you realise that a dream is mind-made you start to question your waking state aswell.
Notice this: mental processes are not material. The diffence beween Mind and Matter is  a mental process.
Therefore how can matter exist indipendently of thought? How can anything exist indepedendly of thought?



 

[Keryo Koffa]

21 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

Coherence is fundamental & doesn't prove that anything is happening apart from your experiencing

@_Archangel_ Awareness navigates infinite potential. Can you disprove simultaneous self-instances?

You are very much, but aware of very little, your awareness feeds of the unaware materializng infinity

[Davino]

@Leo Gura

On the 20th of August I wrote the following:

Quote

I finally got it: Reality is an Infinite Field of Imagination

All infinite possibilities can be Manifested out of Existence.

It's endless, It's beginingless.

It's all ends and all beginnings.

It's Absolutely Infinite 

I am Absolutely Infinite 

All that could be dreamt off is but my very own Nature and Self.

An infinite groundless ground

Nothing to hang on to

Nothing to lose

All ever attained 

All ever lost

InfiniteSelfMetaMorphosingConsciousness

How can I become even more Conscious? 

I feel there's a whole breakthrough in degree awaiting me

Shall I keep knocking till it opens? Or can you give me deeper pointers because I know you have gone through rounds and strange loopy rounds of Infinite Imagination. Can you intuit or explain me how you Awoke deeper into the nature of Consciousness? Methodology, tips, tools, I would really appreciate it, anything that brings me closer to understanding: What the Fuck is Consciousness?

[_Archangel_]

1 hour ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Can you disprove simultaneous self-instances?

@Keryo Koffa I don't think i grasp your language completely.
If you mean that we can be / be awere of two things simultaneously , the answer is No.
If you mean that there exixist selves that have indipendent existence, not produced by the mind, then again the answer is No.

[Keryo Koffa]

1 minute ago, Davino said:

How can I become even more Conscious? I feel there's a whole breakthrough in degree awaiting me

Shall I keep knocking till it opens? Or can you give me deeper pointers because I know you have gone through rounds and strange loopy rounds of Infinite Imagination. Can you intuit or explain me how you Awoke deeper into the nature of Consciousness? Methodology, tips, tools, I would really appreciate it, anything that brings me closer to understanding: What the Fuck is Consciousness?

How about freezing the time of your perception and mapping the current world configuration to traverse
in a freely modifiable lucid dream construct that has an otherwise identical level of reality to your usual
mind-simulation but allows for all freedom and when you're done you tune back to the moment you left?