Selflessness and Selfishness

[Xonas Pitfall]

First of all, I grasp the duality of selflessness and selfishness. This question is on a more practical, grounded "human-relative" level. I often hear people say that selflessness is the best way to live your life, to truly align with happiness and fulfillment, and to give yourself in service to others. But I'm not sure that's what I'd personally advise. I think "authentic alignment" might be a better way to phrase it.

A part of me really enjoys the idea of a self-expressing artist who creates masterpieces out of a sheer "selfish" drive to express their feelings and emotions, or an inventor advancing modern technology out of a genuine curiosity for growth, intellect, and a deeper understanding of reality. Or a comedian who amuses himself endlessly with jokes, regardless of their reception by others. None of these scenarios require acts of service or selflessness toward others, yet they seem like beautiful ways of living. You could even argue that some of the most helpful or useful things for humanity come from this raw, authentic drive—not because they are created with others in mind, but because the creator is purely driven by personal passion and curiosity.

I'm not saying selflessness is bad or that I advocate for people to be more selfish. I think selflessness is beautiful. However, part of me wants to elevate the form of selfishness mentioned above and make it equally beautiful, if not more so. Perhaps I sense some imbalance in society's overemphasis on an "other-centered" mindset, to the point where it blinds us to the beauty that can emerge from self-amusement and authentic self-expression.

How would you define these things? If you had to choose a word to describe the direction one should take for the best, most fulfilling life, would it be more selflessness, more authenticity, more awareness, or something else?

I think I'm also asking this because I've heard Leo talk about selflessness in a very elevated way, which makes sense. However, I do wonder how this would play out practically. Playing devil's advocate for a moment—who would you say feels more fulfilled and at peace: a monk sitting alone under a Bodhi tree endlessly exploring consciousness without serving any other human beings; a writer locked away, spending day after day expressing their philosophies out of pure personal drive; or a nurse who adores giving herself in service to others, healing them?

Would you say all of these people could be equally happy, or would the nurse (or any other example of a highly service-oriented life) be better off because it's supposedly more "selfless and giving"?

I guess I'm trying to understand the semantics of the word "selflessness." Could it also include people acting out of pure personal drive, or does selflessness have to involve service to others? And how do we distinguish between higher and lower drives, or between what’s truly good and beneficial versus what's simply selfish?

Thank you! 

[Evelyna]

It's going to be different for everyone, neither is better or worse, why not be, do both, why not use the tool as it fits, i'm always looking for a balance rather then a particular 1 way of life because I am aware of choices I can make every nano second. Im an artist and im making a living on being an artist now, apart from my wonderful art I have other areas of life where I am no longer am an artist but a mother, a wife, a good friend, event organiser , and I do many more things I am passionate about. We have to be a little selfish and a little selfless. I create out of my passion, you could say out of selfishness but I give some of my work away to those who couldn't afford it but passionately are in love with it, here you could say im being selfless. Be a bit of both is my thought here. 

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Evelyna

Love the answer! Very similar thoughts here. May I ask further, what type of fulfillment and satisfaction do you think come from each of these "roles"? Are they things like: "I love how free and expressive I can be with my artwork," "I feel in tune with my creativity," "I love helping guide my children to a better life," "I love supporting my husband," "I love feeling like a good person," "I love seeing my friends grow"?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what you "tell yourself" when you feel happy about the choices you make, if possible, of course! How many of them sound more "selfish" (self-validating) and how many of them sound more "selfless" (other-serving)?

[Sugarcoat]

Selfishness can benefit others. If you focus on yourself, improve yourself, heal yourself, indulge in your own passions for yourself, you can become a master, a leader to others, and teach others and lead by example simply by being you: the amazing human you have created through your selfishness. So it depends on your you frame it

Edited September 20 by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

Selfishness can benefit others. If you focus on yourself, improve yourself, heal yourself, indulge in your own passions for yourself, you can become a master, a leader to others, and teach others and lead by example simply by being you: the amazing human you have created through your selfishness. So it depends on your you frame it

Adam Smith would be proud of you 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

Adam Smith would be proud of you 

I bet

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Sugarcoat Fully agreed. I suppose the question is more about the individual’s focus. People often say they feel happiest when their focus is on others, in servitude, or dedicated to some higher cause. So, the question would be: Would that leader feel more fulfilled by improving themselves or by serving and helping others grow, or could both be equally fulfilling? Why do you think people tend to place so much importance on service and selflessness, if both selfish and selfless behavior can be fulfilling?

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Sugarcoat Fully agreed. I suppose the question is more about the individual’s focus. People often say they feel happiest when their focus is on others, in servitude, or dedicated to some higher cause. So, the question would be: Would that leader feel more fulfilled by improving themselves or by serving and helping others grow, or could both be equally fulfilling? Why do you think people tend to place so much importance on service and selflessness, if both selfish and selfless behavior can be fulfilling?

I think it can be equally fulfilling, depends on the person, some are naturally more self focused than others. Some are more focused on others and the world and would suit to work with service etc. 

I think people place importance on service and selflessness because their definition of the opposite, selfishness, is quite limited and they don’t include what I wrote into it, seeing how it can also benefit others greatly 

Edited September 20 by Sugarcoat

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Sugarcoat Thank you! Would you mind if I asked what things tend to bring you the most fulfillment, and if you've noticed any patterns in the past? Where would they fall on the selfless-selfish scale? 🐾🐈💛

[Atb210201]

There is no self to be Ish or less about it

So you can be whatever is good in the moment then

[Sugarcoat]

3 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Sugarcoat Thank you! Would you mind if I asked what things tend to bring you the most fulfillment, and if you've noticed any patterns in the past? Where would they fall on the selfless-selfish scale? 🐾🐈💛

I’m very much on the selfish side and always have been. Working on myself has given me fulfillment 

[Princess Arabia]

33 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

There is no self to be Ish or less about it

Gold plated, platinum comment. True or not. Made me chuckle.

[Atb210201]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Gold plated, platinum comment. True or not. Made me chuckle.

Haha

[Evelyna]

7 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Evelyna

Love the answer! Very similar thoughts here. May I ask further, what type of fulfillment and satisfaction do you think come from each of these "roles"? Are they things like: "I love how free and expressive I can be with my artwork," "I feel in tune with my creativity," "I love helping guide my children to a better life," "I love supporting my husband," "I love feeling like a good person," "I love seeing my friends grow"?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what you "tell yourself" when you feel happy about the choices you make, if possible, of course! How many of them sound more "selfish" (self-validating) and how many of them sound more "selfless" (other-serving)?

What fulfilment and satisfaction comes from each of these roles? 
- it’s one energy , the same energy in each sector it just changes form, the feeling itself is the same but the experiance of it is different for each. We can module the same energy in different ways using the same patterns in different settings. Patterns are Ever changing but the energy is one and the same.  I find something I absolutely love in everything I do and I keep my focus there as and when needed. It’s less fulfilment and satisfaction and more pure joy. You would be surprised in how many ways one can express themselves , moving in and out of those settings ( realities) , shifting between creates a circle of new experiences which I choose to experience in a joyful way. I try to  create joyful experiences I can remember when I’m older, the more the better ☺️ and all of those choices are based on how much joy something brings me. I know this feeling of joy well so when I have an idea I reach to that, which one of my ideas brings me that joyful almost child like feeling? And I proceed to take action on that one. 
 

your second question …

Hmm I think it’s important to self validate all the time, to have the kindness to yourself of telling yourself well done!! That’s what loving yourself means. Think about it… when you love somebody , you would praise them for what they did, their achievements , you would support them with your knowledge and experience, once you start doing these things for yourself, outside validation becomes no longer important to you because you know your own worth and nothing can take that away from you. 
 

what do you tell yourself when you feel happy about the choices you make? 
- I say: well done for making this decision to myself, you have created, influenced, structured this experience, now what else do we want to experience just because it’s fun to do. 
Did you notice how I don’t care about the outcome? I know that whatever the outcome it will be beneficial for me anyway. That’s both selfish and selfless. Selfish because every experience I have I decide on how I want to interpret it, and I am careful with observing what type of feelings come up while I experiance , the self decision on how I want to experience something is my responsibility for myself, but it affects others and that would be selfless.  People usualy flow with others energy , which means that one angry person in a room can cause quite a havoc amongst the rest and influence behaviour of others. The same way I know it can work in reverse. If I decide to react to a situation with a positive, calm attitude others around me start to follow that vibration, try it for yourself.
 

So we can debate  meaning of selfish and selfless as just meaning of words till we die or we can drop both definitions and say we are always self serving with influence on others which makes us both selfish and selfless. This theoretically would combine both elements in to one. Think for a second , how do you feel when you give some money to a homeless person, or charity , or any other form of giving, how does that feel to you? Well it feels amazing , you can’t deny it, this deed is both selfish - because you like that feeling and selfless - because someone else recieved some help from you. 
we humans like to split hair but things are really a lot simpler then we make it to be. 

 

Edited September 20 by Evelyna

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Evelyna Thank you! Beautiful answer. 🤗💛

[bambi]

8 hours ago, Evelyna said:

It's going to be different for everyone, neither is better or worse, why not be, do both, why not use the tool as it fits, i'm always looking for a balance rather then a particular 1 way of life because I am aware of choices I can make every nano second. Im an artist and im making a living on being an artist now, apart from my wonderful art I have other areas of life where I am no longer am an artist but a mother, a wife, a good friend, event organiser , and I do many more things I am passionate about. We have to be a little selfish and a little selfless. I create out of my passion, you could say out of selfishness but I give some of my work away to those who couldn't afford it but passionately are in love with it, here you could say im being selfless. Be a bit of both is my thought here. 

Balance is the most reundant generic and meaningless word you can use

[Davino]

8 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

How would you define these things? If you had to choose a word to describe the direction one should take for the best, most fulfilling life, would it be more selflessness, more authenticity, more awareness, or something else?

In life it is all about getting the balance right.

[Hojo]

Id say selflessness is not noticed except by the selfish. Do what you want.

[Keryo Koffa]

Being selfless is oftentimes very selfish, but being truly selfish on the other hand makes you pretty selfless.

[Xonas Pitfall]

Quote

but being truly selfish on the other hand makes you pretty selfless.

@Keryo Koffa Could you elaborate on this a little bit more? I find the statement interesting . . .