Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[Nemra]

@Hojo, your agenda is to give the "peace" that you think Russia wants. Ukraine can fight for their freedom as long as they can figure out the how. You are thinking in a way that is disassociated from the Ukrainian side, and you believe that you're being objective. Thinking from Putin's perspective doesn't automatically make you objective, but you can gain an understanding of how he perceives reality.

More people would have died if Ukraine didn't get support. So, you are defending Russia (Putin), but Russia started the war. I know you will bring the NATO expansion thing as a threat to Russia, but that's not comparable to what Russia has done to Ukraine.

Edited September 22 by Nemra

[PurpleTree]

drones are scary

 

wagner base lit

[PurpleTree]

I’m still listening, it’s interesting though.

[Nemra]

@PurpleTree, I like their podcast.

Although I haven't seen much of their videos, I like that they talk together while having different political views.

[PurpleTree]

25 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@PurpleTree, I like their podcast.

Although I haven't seen much of their videos, I like that they talk together while having different political views.

I think it’s the first or second time that i listened to them. But yea it was pretty good.

[PurpleTree]

 

[PurpleTree]

Russias influence in central Asian declining?

I don’t know but this guy with a funny hat says so.

 

[PurpleTree]

Putins connection to the Russian Orthodox Church 

 

[Hatfort]

The situation for Ukraine is unsustainable, I'd say in the medium term. As Russia wins, will set the terms of surrender of the other side when they collapse, the times for saving face for both sides ended in Kurks last month. Sending more money and weapons won't change anything. The news in all fronts are awful for Ukraine, Russia keeps advancing, as fast as drones let them, which is not much, but it's continuous.

Voices in Ukraine against Zelensky are being persecuted since the beginning, now they are afraid to say they don't want this war to continue, they want a deal. Most men don't want to be sent to die, because that's their fate in the front lines. The Banderas guys most loyal to Zelensky are not sent to the first front. I understand the martial law situation, but how much and how long?

Yeah, Putin is awful in many ways. NATO shouldn't do what it does against Russia anyway, that's what has provoked the invasion. The USA and NATO should have learned a lesson the hard way, I'm not sure they have. The world is multipolar now, there's the USA, and there's Russia and China that at least are blockade resistant, unlike small countries like Venezuela or Cuba. They are also huge, and like themselves they have a good military power, including nuclear. That means you don't mess with them and they don't mess with you, no more, no less.

 

[PurpleTree]

25 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

That means you don't mess with them and they don't mess with you, no more, no less

Nice. But that seems already impossible as they all are fighting for power. Are very intertwined. Economies. Influence each other in different ways including propaganda. Proxy wars in Syria etc. and now a spat with Iran.

[Hatfort]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Nice. But that seems already impossible as they all are fighting for power. Are very intertwined. Economies. Influence each other in different ways including propaganda. Proxy wars in Syria etc. and now a spat with Iran.

Economic competition is supposed to be fair game, which the USA has always promoted as long as they have been winning, which is changing. Now they are not so sure. Propaganda wars are unavoidable too, I don't like them either, so many manipulations and lies make it through, but as long as it's on paper or screen, it's the world we live in. The West is the champion on those fronts too, Goebles would be impressed at the propaganda levels we have reached.

But that's not what the US is doing. It's messing politically and militarily in front of other power's noses. It's messing with Taiwan. Is China messing with Puerto Rico? With the awful things the USA has done to that country, and now they don't even like it enough to completely annex it, but are China or Russia getting their noses there? No, they aren't. That's the USA's and Puerto Rico's business. Same with Ukraine, the USA and NATO messing there is not a secret, the cue in 2014 and blatant military trade, to say it lightly. That's not acceptable for Russia.

There's one power that has to understand that the world is not unipolar now. The others do. My suggestion would be, instead of trying to weaken others by putting money and resources into promoting conflicts, use that to grow your own economy, including companies and workers, both. The more purchase power the workers have, the better the companies do too. That's another tip.

Edited October 6 by Hatfort

[Karmadhi]

Do you guys honestly think Ukraine can kick out Russia out of all its territory?

Realistically.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Do you guys honestly think Ukraine can kick out Russia out of all its territory?

Realistically.

 

There are some possibilites in which Russia withdraws from Ukraine.

We‘ll just wait and see though I guess.

 

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, Hatfort said:

But that's not what the US is doing. It's messing politically and militarily in front of other power's noses. It's messing with Taiwan. Is China messing with Puerto Rico? With the awful things the USA has done to that country, and now they don't even like it enough to completely annex it, but are China or Russia getting their noses there? No, they aren't. That's the USA's and Puerto Rico's business. Same with Ukraine, the USA and NATO messing there is not a secret, the cue in 2014 and blatant military trade, to say it lightly. That's not acceptable for Russia.

I don‘t know much about it. But wasn’t China brutalised by Japan in WW2 and saved by other like the US? And that‘s also when Taiwan and China split?
So China should chill out, Taiwan wants to be democratic and not a part of fascist Poo bear China and nobody wants to be a part of Russia, not even Russians. So your Puerto Rico comperison lacks. Who knows though

[Hatfort]

25 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I don‘t know much about it. But wasn’t China brutalised by Japan in WW2 and saved by other like the US? And that‘s also when Taiwan and China split?
So China should chill out, Taiwan wants to be democratic and not a part of fascist Poo bear China and nobody wants to be a part of Russia, not even Russians. So your Puerto Rico comperison lacks. Who knows though

China should chill out or else what? I mean, why is the US messing in their matters with Taiwan? I'm just saying China and Russia are not messing with the problems the USA has with Puerto Rico, which historically are a lot. They exposed with radiation their pro-independence leader Pedro Albizu Campos in the 50s, who was left silenced and paralyzed for the rest of his years. The good guys, of course. Today they have their economy kidnapped and in perpetual debt.

 

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

China should chill out or else what? I mean, why is the US messing in their matters with Taiwan? I'm just saying China and Russia are not messing with the problems the USA has with Puerto Rico, which historically are a lot. They exposed with radiation their pro-independence leader Pedro Albizu Campos in the 50s, who was left silenced and paralyzed for the rest of his years. The good guys, of course. Today they have their economy kidnapped and in perpetual debt.

 

The US has done a lot of "bad" stuff.

My mother and her generation here (in Europe) always disliked the US for the interventions and regime changes, supporting of dictators etc. in Latin America and of course the mess in the middle East. 
 

But still many people want to be rather a part of the US than China or Russia.

Russia is just kind of depressing and China kind of has the fascist drip.

[Hatfort]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

The US has done a lot of "bad" stuff.

My mother and her generation here (in Europe) always disliked the US for the interventions and regime changes, supporting of dictators etc. in Latin America and of course the mess in the middle East. 
 

But still many people want to be rather a part of the US than China or Russia.

Russia is just kind of depressing and China kind of has the fascist drip.

Migration is allowed for those who wanna move to another country. But that has nothing to do with the political and military intervention policies that the US normally gets away with, but this time it has failed for them and their puppet in Ukraine. The US has to step back, start fixing their own problems, and have a less deceptive international approach with the rest of the glove. It's legit to try to benefit one's economy first, but not by screwing other region and country's peace and wellbeing.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Migration is allowed for those who wanna move to another country. But that has nothing to do with the political and military intervention policies that the US normally gets away with, but this time it has failed for them and their puppet in Ukraine. The US has to step back, start fixing their own problems, and have a less deceptive international approach with the rest of the glove. It's legit to try to benefit one's economy first, but not by screwing other region and country's peace and wellbeing.

Ukrainians so much want to be not part of Russia. Because nobody wants that. That they are willing to die for it. You are supporting Russian colonialism. Nice. Was there western interference? Sure probably but that only worked because Russia is something nobody wants to be a part of.

[Hatfort]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Ukrainians so much want to be not part of Russia. Because nobody wants that. That they are willing to die for it. You are supporting Russian colonialism. Nice. Was there western interference? Sure probably but that only worked because Russia is something nobody wants to be a part of.

I'm saying that if NATO had not messed politically and militarily with Ukraine, the invasion would not have happened and both countries could have continued having a cordial relationship with each other, with economic benefits for both, if they both chose to have so. Not that different from Georgia or Belarus, who are fine by Russia, unless they align with the enemies that are a threat to them. If they want to break their economic and political relationship that's fair game too in democracy, you do you, but a military alliance with the enemy is an understandable red line.

What I support is a diplomatic end to the conflict, which would have resulted in much better terms for Ukraine. A peace deal was almost achieved after the first incursion, but NATO said no, let's use this chance to weaken Russia with a blockade and a war that others will fight for us. Besides we have a lot of weapons starting to rust and that's bad for our business. Russia has prevailed though, both militarily and economically. There have been more chances for peace deals, each time worse for Ukraine. I don't think there will be more negotiations after the Kursk invasion though.

Ukrainians are not stupid, those who are not collecting the aid money in their bank accounts and are sent to a certain death, want negotiations the sooner the better. But they are sent to prison if they are caught saying something in that line or opposing the cocaine addict puppet whose term as president ended months ago. The Eastern population of Ukraine is fine about being Russian and many would have wanted this to happen earlier, because the Ukrainian nationalists were violently targeting them since the 2014 cue.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Hatfort said:

I'm saying that if NATO had not messed politically and militarily with Ukraine, the invasion would not have happened and both countries could have continued having a cordial relationship with each other, with economic benefits for both, if they both chose to have so. Not that different from Georgia or Belarus, who are fine by Russia, unless they align with the enemies that are a threat to them. If they want to break their economic and political relationship that's fair game too in democracy, you do you, but a military alliance with the enemy is an understandable red line.

What I support is a diplomatic end to the conflict, which would have resulted in much better terms for Ukraine. A peace deal was almost achieved after the first incursion, but NATO said no, let's use this chance to weaken Russia with a blockade and a war that others will fight for us. Besides we have a lot of weapons starting to rust and that's bad for our business. Russia has prevailed though, both militarily and economically. There have been more chances for peace deals, each time worse for Ukraine. I don't think there will be more negotiations after the Kursk invasion though.

Ukrainians are not stupid, those who are not collecting the aid money in their bank accounts and are sent to a certain death, want negotiations the sooner the better. But they are sent to prison if they are caught saying something in that line or opposing the cocaine addict puppet whose term as president ended months ago. The Eastern population of Ukraine is fine about being Russian and many would have wanted this to happen earlier, because the Ukrainian nationalists were violently targeting them since the 2014 cue.

Russia would have probably installed a puppet in Ukraine and the people didn’t want that. Russia would have taken over Ukraine but not with straight violence. Similar to what pooh bear did in HK. Look even in Belarus the people were protesting because they wanted to be closer to Europe and fuerher from Russia/Putin. But the puppet dictator smashed the protests unfortunately. People choose freedom rather than Russia or China. Ar least in Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Taiwan etc. etc.