Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[AION]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

USA wins, they was in a deep chrisis, but not anymore, a lot of good business. 

If people are so stupid to be used as pawns and then be discarded as a used prostitute, that is fine with me. But I don’t think anybody in Europe is happy with this situation. They got played hard. 

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, AION said:

If people are so stupid to be used as pawns and then be discarded as a used prostitute, that is fine with me. But I don’t think anybody in Europe is happy with this situation. They got played hard. 

Almost nobody realize it. Maybe the Germans do, because are in the shit, but as Victoria Nuland said, fuck the Europeans 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 

Complex, right?

Edited December 30, 2024 by Breakingthewall

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

This sounds totally invented. Are there the Koreans? Sounds like fantasy 

N. Koreans are stationed within Russia to bolster the defense and recapture of the Kursk region following the defense treaty between Russia and N. Korea signed in July this year. This is a fact.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2796pdm1lo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean–Russian_Treaty_on_Comprehensive_Strategic_Partnership

[PurpleTree]

You can say/think about west what you want but i think Russia is really quite doomed soon-ish.

And leaders like Putin just accelerate it.

Their best bet would be to go democratic and get closer to the EU/Europe imo.

With their demographic challenges and now this conflict etc. This country isn’t sustainable. And at some point China will start grabbing chunks and nobody will help them.

[zazen]

On 28/12/2024 at 6:47 PM, Lyubov said:

Wouldn’t be the first time Russia shot down a civilian aircraft. Do not fly to or in these war ridden countries! Dangerous. Wonder if Russia will just blame the USA and Ukraine as usual for their mistakes. 

On 28/12/2024 at 6:50 PM, PurpleTree said:

Putin already kind of apologised to Aliev and said „oopsies"

On 29/12/2024 at 1:40 AM, Bobby_2021 said:

"Indications" 

"US official says" 

A tragic incident. Like PurpleTree said, Putin has already apologised for it happening whilst investigations are on going.

As for having a go at Bobby for being skeptical - its only understandable for people to be more skeptical as a default when dealing with anything coming out of the US / West, than not. After all, we've just seen them back and defend Israel who are committing a ethnic cleansing campaign in front of our eyes. Threads still popping up on this forum about death toll numbers - never mind the the destruction toll numbers - how about we take a look at that. Their ''official'' spokesperson Miller grins and gaslights us weekly - ''we've told our partner to investigate their own war crimes'' and that ''we are concerned'' - but nothing changes. I don't even have to get into the historical record of lies, psy-ops and manufactured pretexts for countless imperial behaviour over the entire existence of the US.

That doesn't make someone anti-West or Pro-Russia/China - it's anti-whoever is currently the largest imperial offender on the planet with the most sophisticated media machine to obfuscate its actions and existence in far flung parts of the planet it has no business being in. For us Westerners of course this makes us uncomfortable, and we can tend to compartmentalise the fact that we live in the belly of the beast - away from the very lofty notions and high ideals that beast whispers to us daily. That gap between rhetoric and action is disorientating to say the least - so its easier to point at boogeyman elsewhere than deal with the cognitive dissonance.

The US empire literally has the audacity to have their think tanks spout their plans on how to destabilise and ''over extend'' their ''adversaries''.

''The United States could extend Russia in the Caucasus in two ways. First, the United States could push for a closer NATO relationship with Georgia and Azerbaijan, likely leading Russia to strengthen its military presence in South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Armenia, and southern Russia.

While the principal aim of these policies would be to extend Russia, closer relationships with Georgia, Azerbaijan, or Armenia might yield important secondary benefits for the United States. The geographic position of Azerbaijan makes it a prime location for both intelligence gathering and deterrence measures relating to Iran, especially because many of Iran’s Kurdish and Iranian populations are concentrated near the Azeri-Iranian border. Stronger ties with Georgia, hailed by the conservative Heritage Foundation as “one of America’s best allies in Europe” for providing one the largest contributions of troops to Iraq and Afghanistan, could pay strategic dividends in the future.''

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

Then we wonder why a lot of the world is often suspicious of the West and why people default to being skeptical when the West speaks on global affairs and incidents it can exploit - it's literally no surprise when you have Western think tank reports openly discussing destabilisation strategies lol.

Thats not to say it didn't happen or the Russia didn't do it - its just pointing out the default positioning of a lot of people these days which has been set due to a precedent and track record of lies from the US empire. It's also not even whataboutism, but wherethehellareyoulookingism - it’s trying to maintain perspective in media landscape designed to make us lose it.

Edited December 31, 2024 by zazen

[zazen]

On 25/12/2024 at 3:18 AM, Lyubov said:

Everyone wants to be captain hindsight now and especially with Ukraine. Supporting Taiwan absolutely was the most rational and strategic thing for the US or any superpower in their shoes to do at that time. Imagine if China was able to expand their zombie communism to the rest of Asia? The world would have not developed the same, human rights would have been a joke compared to what it is now . Everyone wants to cry about big bad America. I’m not saying this western democracy form of government is perfect, USA has a ton of issues with it’s double standards but you are taking for granted what we have now because of our form of government being the dominant one. We probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion if western democracy didn’t prevail, have you seen how heavily censored Chinese internet is? Forget any form of open dialogue. 

You’re totally right regarding US support for Taiwan being the most rational and strategic thing for the US or any major power to do at the time. Just as it was right to resist the expansive imperialism of the Soviet Union in the past, it’s consistent to say that Russia and China are right in resisting today’s imperial power of the US. That doesn’t make their methods morally clean, but it does make their motivations understandable.

Smaller nations like Ukraine or Taiwan are caught in the crossfire between competing powers. Their sovereignty (no ones in fact) is an absolute - as we don't exist in a vacuum. Just like how nations can't choose their neighbours, we can't choose our family. I think this idealistic vision of being sovereign and free is a trap with devastating consequences. These smaller nations that are buffer zones unfortunately have to give up lesser freedoms for the larger freedom of global stability and survival.

The West view Ukraine having to remain neutral as a loss (to their dominance - as if they really care about its own sovereignty lol) but remaining neutral means Ukraine avoids being ground into dust between giants. It's better to be 80% sovereign (by acknowledging your neighbours security concerns) and alive, than 100% sovereign but not alive to even enjoy that freedom (by mocking those security concerns). And neutrality isn't some unique curse of the present. The Cold War demanded similar compromises also - smaller nations play buffer zones to prevent nuclear apocalypse. The difference now is that we’ve stopped calling it what it is. Instead, we moralise about “freedom” and “sovereignty” while ignoring the geopolitical tectonics beneath our feet.

Until we evolve into blissed out Buddhas capable of coexistence, or terraform Earth into a landscape of perfect buffer zones, the world we live in is one where geography shapes conflicts and sovereignty has to bend to the pressures of global stability and survival. 

People confuse the secondary and incidental gains of a war - territory or resources - with its primary cause. They see Russia’s moves in Ukraine and call it imperial ambition, while ignoring the deeper driver that is security and survival. No war can ever be justified, but it can be understood. What Russia is doing is ugly and brutal but it simply isn’t just about expansion - but against the expansion of an opposing imperial force wishing to encircle it - guess who.

Until we acknowledge valid security concerns, we’ll stay locked in this cycle and keep swapping primary causes for secondary ones - which means we're fighting the wrong battles due to misdiagnosis - which means we are bound to repeat the same mistakes, next up with China.

 

Edited yesterday at 10:03 PM by zazen

[Breakingthewall]

On 25/12/2024 at 4:18 AM, Lyubov said:

Everyone wants to be captain hindsight now and especially with Ukraine. Supporting Taiwan absolutely was the most rational and strategic thing for the US or any superpower in their shoes to do at that time. Imagine if China was able to expand their zombie communism to the rest of Asia? The world would have not developed the same, human rights would have been a joke compared to what it is now . Everyone wants to cry about big bad America. I’m not saying this western democracy form of government is perfect, USA has a ton of issues with it’s double standards but you are taking for granted what we have now because of our form of government being the dominant one. We probably wouldn’t even be having this discussion if western democracy didn’t prevail, have you seen how heavily censored Chinese internet is? Forget any form of open dialogue. 

The problem is that before the US acted to defend it's values, contain communism and now, since there is no real enemy, it creates it for business, to maintain its economic status. It is the motivation of a company that pursues profit, only its wars are not only commercial. So it has gone from being a positive force to drifting towards psychopathy.

[zazen]

''A famous thread of all the top strategic thinkers - from Kissinger to Chomsky - who warned for years that war was coming if we pursued NATO expansion, yet had their advice ignored''

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1700719253685678286.html

- Kissinger, in 2014, he warned that "to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country" and that it therefore needs a policy that is aimed at "reconciliation". He was also adamant that "Ukraine should not join NATO".

- John Mearsheimer - probably the leading geopolitical scholar in the US today - in 2015: "The West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked [...] What we're doing is in fact encouraging that outcome."

- Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"

-Clinton's defense secretary William Perry explaining in his memoir that to him NATO enlargement is the cause of "the rupture in relations with Russia" and that in 1996 he was so opposed to it that "in the strength of my conviction, I considered resigning".

-Noam Chomsky in 2015, saying that "the idea that Ukraine might join a Western military alliance would be quite unacceptable to any Russian leader" and that Ukraine's desire to join NATO "is not protecting Ukraine, it is threatening Ukraine with major war."

-CIA director Bill Burns in 2008: "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for [Russia]" and "I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests"

-Pat Buchanan - assistant and special consultant to U.S. presidents Nixon, Ford, and Reagan - writing in his 1999 book A Republic, Not an Empire: "By moving NATO onto Russia's front porch, we have scheduled a twenty-first-century confrontation."

 

Just because a nation is acting aggressively in the present, doesn't mean its the aggressor. Separate being aggressive from being the aggressor and instigating provocateur of a situation. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

''A famous thread of all the top strategic thinkers - from Kissinger to Chomsky - who warned for years that war was coming if we pursued NATO expansion, yet had their advice ignored''

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1700719253685678286.html

- Kissinger, in 2014, he warned that "to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country" and that it therefore needs a policy that is aimed at "reconciliation". He was also adamant that "Ukraine should not join NATO".

- John Mearsheimer - probably the leading geopolitical scholar in the US today - in 2015: "The West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked [...] What we're doing is in fact encouraging that outcome."

- Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"

-Clinton's defense secretary William Perry explaining in his memoir that to him NATO enlargement is the cause of "the rupture in relations with Russia" and that in 1996 he was so opposed to it that "in the strength of my conviction, I considered resigning".

-Noam Chomsky in 2015, saying that "the idea that Ukraine might join a Western military alliance would be quite unacceptable to any Russian leader" and that Ukraine's desire to join NATO "is not protecting Ukraine, it is threatening Ukraine with major war."

-CIA director Bill Burns in 2008: "Ukrainian entry into NATO is the brightest of all redlines for [Russia]" and "I have yet to find anyone who views Ukraine in NATO as anything other than a direct challenge to Russian interests"

-Pat Buchanan - assistant and special consultant to U.S. presidents Nixon, Ford, and Reagan - writing in his 1999 book A Republic, Not an Empire: "By moving NATO onto Russia's front porch, we have scheduled a twenty-first-century confrontation."

 

Just because a nation is acting aggressively in the present, doesn't mean its the aggressor. Separate being aggressive from being the aggressor and instigating provocateur of a situation. 

Is it necessary more to understand the situation? But is absolutely impossible to find a single article in the Western press that deviates from the retarded narrative of: Putin is a megalomaniac psychopath who in his final years wants to conquer Europe to return to the Soviet Union. He is evil, like Voldemort, and the Americans are the Good and Zelensky is Gandalf the Grey. Oh, and don't forget to wear diapers when you go out.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Brutal knife fight captured on Ukrainian Soldier's helmet cam as he is stabbed to death by Russian Soldier.

https://files.catbox.moe/b20jc7.mp4

Translation of the dialogue at the 6:40 minute mark.

Ukrainian: That's it, Mom, goodbye! Wait, let me die in peace! You've already cut me open. Let me die quietly. It hurts a lot. *unintelligible* beautiful. Let me pass away peacefully. Let me die. Don't touch me, let me die. Please go away. I want to die myself, thank you.

Yakut/Russian: You were the best fighter in the world.

Ukrainian: Farewell! You were better!

Yakut/Russian: Farewell brother!

Ukrainian: Farewell!

the sound of a grenade fuse activating and a grenade falling nearby

Ukrainian: Don't do it.

*Grenade explodes and blood drips off the body*

Edited 3 hours ago by Husseinisdoingfine

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Brutal knife fight captured on Ukrainian Soldier's helmet cam as he is stabbed to death by Russian Soldier.

https://files.catbox.moe/b20jc7.mp4

Translation of the dialogue at the 6:40 minute mark.

Ukrainian: That's it, Mom, goodbye! Wait, let me die in peace! You've already cut me open. Let me die quietly. It hurts a lot. *unintelligible* beautiful. Let me pass away peacefully. Let me die. Don't touch me, let me die. Please go away. I want to die myself, thank you.

Yakut/Russian: You were the best fighter in the world.

Ukrainian: Farewell! You were better!

Yakut/Russian: Farewell brother!

Ukrainian: Farewell!

the sound of a grenade fuse activating and a grenade falling nearby

Ukrainian: Don't do it.

*Grenade explodes and blood drips off the body*

Image here is of the "winner" of the fight.

https://imgur.com/a/HreqCiG