Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[Hatfort]

3 minutes ago, Elliott said:

What, the socialists on here told me he's a complete sellout to the U.S..

Socialists, did Putin buy Zelensky yesterday?

What's wrong with you, man? You asked me if I was a socialist, and I told you I'm a social democrat. Then you didn't answer me the same question I asked you. You don't even know what the other people's ideas in this thread are, but you refer to all as Socialists in the plural. By the way, there is another thread in this forum which title says it's the leftists perpetuating the deaths of this war by supporting Zelensky, unlike Trump and the rightists who apparently don't do. So what is it, guys? Make up your minds about the leftists.

The war is coming to an end and Zelensky has been left out of the conversations, probably at petition of Putin. Zelensky is done, he may not go to his Miami mansion in the end.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Basman said:

Donbass is Ukrainian and the shelling is part of the war against Russian backed separatists

Dombass is populated by Russians. The Ukrainian situation has been complex and conflictive for hundreds of years. What is the reason for the US to intervene directly in a conflict zone, creating instability, arming a faction, promoting a coup d'état? Can you imagine if Russia intervenes in Ireland and gives missiles to the IRA separatists? and nuclear weapons? It would be a bit problematic. why do this? to provoke a war, which they have done successfully. The result is a million dead young people, a destroyed country and good business for the United States.

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Ero said:

Zelensky has some balls. The neo-colonial orange clown thought he could do whatever. The credibility of the US is evaporating like a snowman in the Sahara.

The actors acting. Do you believe the news?

Edited Sunday at 03:40 PM by Breakingthewall

[Elliott]

5 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

What's wrong with you, man? You asked me if I was a socialist, and I told you I'm a social democrat. Then you didn't answer me the same question I asked you. You don't even know what the other people's ideas in this thread are, but you refer to all as Socialists in the plural. By the way, there is another thread in this forum which title says it's the leftists perpetuating the deaths of this war by supporting Zelensky, unlike Trump and the rightists who apparently don't do. So what is it, guys? Make up your minds about the leftists.

The war is coming to an end and Zelensky has been left out of the conversations, probably at petition of Putin. Zelensky is done, he may not go to his Miami mansion in the end.

I think it was very disingenuous to be on here claiming to be looking out for Ukrainian lives while you're an actual supporter of Putins Russia.

[Hatfort]

1 minute ago, Elliott said:

I think it was very disingenuous to be on here claiming to be looking out for Ukrainian lives while you're an actual supporter of Putins Russia.

What you think or I think does not matter, the truth is those men are dying in vain.

This madness needs to stop.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I think it was very disingenuous to be on here claiming to be looking out for Ukrainian lives while you're an actual supporter of Putins Russia.

You function from an immature perspective that is common in people, for you there is the blue team and the red team, you cheer for the blues. blues good! bad reds! then you see the other guy as one of the red ones, bad red ones! It is clear, because you are one of the reds, who are bad? Ah, because you are a socialist.

Look, I'll explain to you, things are not like that, this is something they sell to people to make them behave like bovine puppets. Reality, unfortunately for children, is more complex and nuanced.

[Elliott]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You function from an immature perspective that is common in people, for you there is the blue team and the red team, you cheer for the blues. blues good! bad reds! then you see the other guy as one of the red ones, bad red ones! It is clear, because you are one of the reds, who are bad? Ah, because you are a socialist.

Look, I'll explain to you, things are not like that, this is something they sell to people to make them behave like bovine puppets. Reality, unfortunately for children, is more complex and nuanced.

Not all democratic-socialists, but actual socialists actually support Russia at least to the extent as a counter to the u.s..

Edited Sunday at 03:57 PM by Elliott

[Breakingthewall]

Could you imagine how many Ukrainian soldiers would like to kill zelenski? You guys can't imagine the horror that's being committed against the Ukrainian youth men. Only who couldn't scape from Ukraine is fighting now. 

Do you seriously think that a normal 25-year-old guy who looks for girls and goes out with his friends is going to die at 20 degrees below zero so that the president can be dickachenko instead of pussychenko? Seriously? They are there brainwashed and violently forced

Edited Sunday at 04:03 PM by Breakingthewall

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Could you imagine how many Ukrainian soldiers would like to kill zelenski? You guys can't imagine the horror that's being committed against the Ukrainian youth men. Only who couldn't scape from Ukraine is fighting now. 

Do you seriously think that a normal 25-year-old guy who looks for girls and goes out with his friends is going to die at 20 degrees below zero so that the president can be dickachenko instead of pussycheko? Seriously? They are there brainwashed and violently forced

A lot of 25 year olds aren't cowards though.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Elliott said:

A lot of 25 year olds aren't cowards though.

Yes, sure they are willing to die to change yanukovich by fuckinovich, because they prefer being stolen by the second one

[Basman]

30 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Dombass is populated by Russians. The Ukrainian situation has been complex and conflictive for hundreds of years. What is the reason for the US to intervene directly in a conflict zone, creating instability, arming a faction, promoting a coup d'état? Can you imagine if Russia intervenes in Ireland and gives missiles to the IRA separatists? and nuclear weapons? It would be a bit problematic. why do this? to provoke a war, which they have done successfully. The result is a million dead young people, a destroyed country and good business for the United States.

Nice gaslight. Smells like a wet fart.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Its no longer serious about making sense of the war. Just blatantly bias and misinformation. 

I'm quiet disappointed with the caliber of political discourse on this forum when it comes to current conflicts. Ukraine and Israel-Palestine in particular. Too much brigading, propagandizing and pointless arguing about basic facts and not enough neutrality and serious analysis. Ironically many users here seem to lack self-awareness despite being supposedly deep into spirituality.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Basman said:

Nice gaslight. Smells like a wet fart.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Its no longer serious about making sense of the war. Just blatantly bias and misinformation. 

I'm quiet disappointed with the caliber of political discourse on this forum when it comes to current conflicts. Ukraine and Israel-Palestine in particular. Too much brigading, propagandizing and pointless arguing about basic facts and not enough neutrality and serious analysis. Ironically many users here seem to lack self-awareness despite being supposedly deep into spirituality.

Blah blah blah and absolutely zero argumentation. Low level, like usual

[Basman]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Blah blah blah and absolutely zero argumentation. Low level, like usual

What am I supposed to argue with? People are lying, skewing and omitting facts.

I'm yet to see a strong case for why Russia's invasion is just that doesn't employ half-truths and lies.

[Elliott]

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Blah blah blah and absolutely zero argumentation. Low level, like usual

Do you really consider what you've been posting as sincere conversation or debate?

[Hatfort]

1 minute ago, Basman said:

What am I supposed to argue with? People are lying, skewing and omitting facts.

I'm yet to see a strong case for why Russia's invasion is just that doesn't employ half-truths and lies.

It's not just. But you know what else is not just? NATO not keeping the accords it had with Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed. They signed NATO would not expand to the East, which they did to their face too many times. The CIA has been meddling in Ukraine politics even before the 2014 coup, just to confront Russia. Militarizing it to the bones making it a de facto NATO state, the only thing left was the announcement at this point. That was wrong before the Misnk accords, but just laughing at their face after them, why do you sign things you are not going to comply with. They poked the bear too many times, and it finally took a swipe at them. Not only that, but right before and during the war there have been chances to get agreements, but the West has declined all of them until now.

Now complain about how unjust everything is. Some of us won't repeat like parrots the skewed narrative the Western media sprouts. That does not make us anti-west or anything like that, I want us to do better. Unfortunately our elected leaders and media are not on that path at all.

[Elliott]

3 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

It's not just. But you know what else is not just? NATO not keeping the accords it had with Russia when the Soviet Union collapsed. They signed NATO would not expand to the East, which they did to their face too many times. The CIA has been meddling in Ukraine politics even before the 2014 coup, just to confront Russia. Militarizing it to the bones making it a de facto NATO state, the only thing left was the announcement at this point. That was wrong before the Misnk accords, but just laughing at their face after them, why do you sign things you are not going to comply with. They poked the bear too many times, and it finally took a swipe at them. Not only that, but right before and during the war there have been chances to get agreements, but the West has declined all of them until now.

Now complain about how unjust everything is. Some of us won't repeat like parrots the skewed narrative the Western media sprouts. That does not make us anti-west or anything like that, I want us to do better. Unfortunately our elected leaders and media are not on that path at all.

There was never such agreement, show it, post the "accords" you claim exist.

[Sincerity]

People, please engage with respect for one another and post mindfully. Don't just spew out your beliefs unconsciously. Are you here just to argue?

Please revisit the Conscious Politics Guidelines for this subforum. And if you treat each other disrespectfully, warnings will fly. One user was already warned for their posts here.

Edited Sunday at 05:18 PM by Sincerity

[Hatfort]

9 minutes ago, Elliott said:

There was never such agreement, show it, post the "accords" you claim exist.

Here you have:

Quote

US secretary of state James Baker promised Shevardnadze “iron-clad guarantees that NATO’s jurisdiction or forces would not move eastward”. On the same day in Moscow, he famously told the Soviet General Secretary that the alliance would not move “one inch to the east”.

 

Quote

The following day, February 10, 1990, Helmut Kohl, the future chancellor of a united Germany, repeated the same thought to Gorbachev, even as they disagreed on other issues. “We believe that NATO should not expand the sphere of its activity. We have to find a reasonable resolution. I correctly understand the security interests of the Soviet Union, and I realize that you, Mr. General Secretary, and the Soviet leadership will have to clearly explain what is happening to the Soviet people,” Kohl said.

So they were told NATO would not expand, but NATO expanded. Was not that an agreement? For Russia yes, for NATO apparently not.

Then you have the Minks agreements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

[Ero]

The amount of russian talking points in this thread is baffling. Unless your country had been colonised by the soviets or is a puppet state like Belarus, you don’t understand what is at stake for Ukraine.

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Hatfort said:

What you think or I think does not matter, the truth is those men are dying in vain.

This madness needs to stop.

Very nearsighted. What makes you think this peace will last? What’s being set up now is for this conflict to freeze and turn into a bigger war in 5-10 years from now. A rushed ceasefire by Trump to get a quick political win with his stupid voters is not a long term solution. 

Edited Sunday at 06:04 PM by Lyubov