Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[PurpleTree]

Fridman is such an Elon and Trump fanboi though it’s wild. Also very naive about Potato face man or Mr Potato 🥔 

Either naive or bought.

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Fridman is such an Elon and Trump fanboi though it’s wild. Also very naive about Potato face man or Mr Potato 🥔 

Either naive or bought.

You see Lex this way? He seems to me to be reasonably welcoming to a diverse range of view points for better or worse. He interviewed Zelenskyy here. Maybe Kamala actively avoided these centrist-populist new wave media guys because she was bad at campaigning? I think Joe Rogan definitely has gone off the edge some but Lex hasn’t yet.

Edited January 6 by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

Lex has lost his shit though if he thinks Donald Trump and Elon Musk aren’t corrupt to the core 

[PurpleTree]

16 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Lex has lost his shit though if he thinks Donald Trump and Elon Musk aren’t corrupt to the core 

Yea the way he said that.

Then he was basically like: “Ok now say what you like about Trump"

”Ok and now tell me what you like about Elon”

"You have to forgive Putin”

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

[Lyubov]

I listened to parts of the Zelensky interview and Lex is must be some idealist who has drank too much of the Trump cool aid and anti establishment’d himself into being a muppet for Putin. 

He talks about how dialogue must be open and it’s important to talk to Putin and whatnot and get the word out to the Russian people by tasking their side too and then Zelenskyy points out how all this effort is censored and banned in Russia  You can’t even watch this interview there because YouTube is blocked. And then of course I’m sure there is someone Russian POV that wants to moan about RT not being featured on Facebook news or something and how they are being censored in the west too…

Try to dialogue with someone who quite clearly made it known they don’t believe you should be a sovereign state because they see you as an existential threat if you are. How do you even find a middle ground with that? It’s one or the other. 

[Leo Gura]

Funny enough, everyone is shitting on Lex for saying that Putin loves Russia -- how that's impossible -- but Lex is right, even though he is very naive about how war works and power works.

Lex's comment section is a great example at how clueless people are about the relativity of love and worldview in general. All sides are so ignorant of the self-deception their minds are playing.

Edited January 7 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

Nah Lex actually walks the talk. He is the true champion of free speech. 

Being accommodating and accepting of literally all sides. What I thought Rogan would have done.

8 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Lex is must be some idealist who has drank too much of the Trump cool aid and anti establishment’d himself into being a muppet for Putin. 

Your issue is that anyone isn't a full blown western shill has to be a Russian propagandist.

This is not what Lex is about. He is a much needed figure of free speech so that people can actually decide for thems after listening to the two sides. 

Anti establishment figures are needed like the Tucker interview with Putin. But Tucker would never interview Zelenskyy. Hence he isn't onboard free speech. 

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

even though he is very naive about how war works and power works.

Interviewers being a little naive is good. It allows for the other side to think both are on the same side and hence we get to see more thoughts from them.

[Leo Gura]

Dialogue is not going to solve this issue. The issue isn't occuring on that plane.

It is convenient for a podcaster to believe that lots of talking will fix the world.

I found the interview shallow. Nothing of substance was said.

Edited January 7 by Leo Gura

[RightHand]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Dialogue is not going to solve this issue. The issue isn't occuring on that plane.

It is convenient for a podcaster to believe that lots of talking will fix the world.

This would perhaps be an example of studying a system too much from the outside. 

Edited January 7 by RightHand

[Bobby_2021]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Dialogue is not going to solve this issue.

What do you think could solve the issues? I don't think anything will at this point, least of all Trump.

Better to have dialogue anyway.

It's still important for the general public to be informed regarding all perspectives. Talks should be happening. It sends a different message.

[Lyubov]

I’m still listening and Lex really believes this is an issue that needs to be talked out. There wasn’t enough talking since 2014? Shit in one hand and wish into another, which will fill up first? Lex needs to hear this. Lex just seems very naive and half baked in his ability to accept reality as it is and realize all the Trump cool aid vibes where he heard all those big promises on Joe Rogan and got all excited now have to face reality. This is not something that can just be discussed away. A concrete action plan where one will have to stand by their values will have to take place and that will require hardship and sacrifice and facing the risk of the unknown and this becoming a bigger conflict. Either you allow countries to seize neighbor territory or you don’t. I’m not even moralizing this. You either support Ukraine and make them strong or you don’t. Putin has been very clear on his belief system and what he believes and what his aims are. There is no compromising with that now. Imagine trying to compromise in a boxing match. You go for the win or get to a place where the other side can’t advance or win. 

[Lyubov]

19 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Nah Lex actually walks the talk. He is the true champion of free speech. 

Being accommodating and accepting of literally all sides. What I thought Rogan would have done.

Your issue is that anyone isn't a full blown western shill has to be a Russian propagandist.

This is not what Lex is about. He is a much needed figure of free speech so that people can actually decide for thems after listening to the two sides. 

Anti establishment figures are needed like the Tucker interview with Putin. But Tucker would never interview Zelenskyy. Hence he isn't onboard free speech. 

Interviewers being a little naive is good. It allows for the other side to think both are on the same side and hence we get to see more thoughts from them.

The thing is I’ve listened to and deeply studied both sides and I can see through the sheer amount of deception and bullshit one side is playing into more than the other. It’s very hard to take the whole balancing stance and come to the conclusion that “both sides are equally at fault or equally bullshitting.”

This is not merely a conflict over territory or power it’s a clash of worldviews. One side is compelled to stick to established rule while the other wants to regain power due to historical grievances. The events unfolding now are a direct result of this collision, fundamental principles guiding international order are being contested. It’s not just geopolitical struggle but a battle to define the rules that will shape the foreseeable future. 

I’m not entirely dismissive of Russians point of view but when you see this war basically culminates in “make Russia great again” you realize which side of history you should be on.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

It’s very hard to take the whole balancing stance and come to the conclusion that “both sides are equally at fault or equally bullshitting.”

I never said that both sides are equally wrong or right. I am saying we need to listen to either sides. 

How can you discern right and wrong when you are not even willing to listen to the other side?

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

I’m not entirely dismissive of Russians point of view

oh yea sure nice joke. 

[Vynce]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Funny enough, everyone is shitting on Lex for saying that Putin loves Russia -- how that's impossible -- but Lex is right, even though he is very naive about how war works and power works.

Lex's comment section is a great example at how clueless people are about the relativity of love and worldview in general. All sides are so ignorant of the self-deception their minds are playing.

That. 
How can I learn more about self-deception, mind games, corruption, survival .. ? 

Everything from you in that regard on YouTube is good, but not really on your blog post level or at the level of your forum takes. 

Is there any book or technique that escalated your sense in that regard?

[PurpleTree]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Funny enough, everyone is shitting on Lex for saying that Putin loves Russia -- how that's impossible -- but Lex is right, even though he is very naive about how war works and power works.

No i believe Potato face loves Russia and Russians. Just like a sick man loves his wife and kills her out if jealousy. I mean he’s trowing young men into the meat grinder like it’s a joke. Mostly men from the non slavic poorer regions but still.

[Lyubov]

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I never said that both sides are equally wrong or right. I am saying we need to listen to either sides. 

How can you discern right and wrong when you are not even willing to listen to the other side?

oh yea sure nice joke. 

To answer your question, I’m not sure. I am not entirely convinced that listening is a step towards peace when one side has made quite clear what their motives culminate in. Putin made several long speeches on the night of the invasion and has done a few interviews since then. His beliefs are there and don’t need repeating. At this point I’m not sure what else you’re expecting to hear from the Russians? He doesn’t want to seriously negotiate a peace deal, he has the upper hand and only incentives at this point to continue the war. That’s the whole point of what Zelenskyy is saying. Putin isn’t willing to discuss or say anything in good faith unless his back is against the wall and there are consequences for waging this war. I don’t know where Lex is getting “Putin is ready to negotiate” from???

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Vynce said:

That. 
How can I learn more about self-deception, mind games, corruption, survival .. ? 

Everything from you in that regard on YouTube is good, but not really on your blog post level or at the level of your forum takes. 

Is there any book or technique that escalated your sense in that regard?

I am making more new videos on that. Stay tuned. You are not going to find deeper explanations of it than mine.

There are no such books because nobody understands it.

23 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

No i believe Potato face loves Russia and Russians. Just like a sick man loves his wife and kills her out if jealousy. I mean he’s trowing young men into the meat grinder like it’s a joke. Mostly men from the non slavic poorer regions but still.

This is a flimsy understanding. Worldview is far more relative than that.

If your worldview led you to believe that your nation was in danger, you would have no problem sending a million of your boys to die at war. That is all consistent with love.

That Americans or Western liberals cannot understand this show just how biased and clueless people are about the workings of the mind.

Westerners love their countries but Putin don't? Po0ootin bad! This is a comically self-absorbed understanding of the situation.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am making more new videos on that. Stay tuned. You are not going to find deeper explanations of it than mine.

There are no such books because nobody understands it.

This is a flimsy understanding. Worldview is far more relative than that.

If your worldview led you to believe that your nation was in danger, you would have no problem sending a million of your boys to die at war. That is all consistent with love.

That Americans or Western liberals cannot understand this show just how biased and clueless people are about the workings of the mind.

Westerners love their countries but Putin don't? Po0ootin bad! This is a comically self-absorbed understanding of the situation.

No i said i believe he loves it.

I also believe a guy who kills his woman mostly loved her.

But he only loves his vision if it it’s quite egoic. If there’s democracy free press etc. he wouldn’t love it as much or not at all.

 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

No i said i believe he loves it.

I also believe a guy who kills his woman mostly loved her.

That is not giving him enough credit.

Pushing back against American hegemony is not the same as killing the wife you love out of jealousy. It's higher than that.

Quote

If there’s democracy free press etc. he wouldn’t love it as much or not at all.

This is a matter of worldview and this fails to take into account the survival needs of Russia, which are different than the West.

If you assume that Russia should be like the West then Putin seems crazy and selfish for stopping it from happening. But there is another view, which is that Russia has its own way and needs. That's the basis for this whole conflict.

Edited January 7 by Leo Gura