Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[Nemra]

29 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Plenty of social programs are there.

Could you please refer to those programs that the NK government supports?

[PurpleTree]

Guys if you have a heart, pls stop quoting Bobby so much.

I have him on ignore and now i have to still see his posts all the time.

[Scholar]

 

[Bobby_2021]

9 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Do you think they will feel OK when be left with a smaller territory then before the war?

Absolutely. First thing to acknowledge is that this was is nothing short of a meat grinder for the Ukraine side. The conscripts are poorly trained and they lack the ammunition to put up a fight. The situation is dire in the frontlines.

So the common folks have no interest is losing their lives over nothing. Ukraine has already lost the war. It's over.

They are okay with giving up territories in exchange for ending the war. It's not like they have other options. Most of occupied territories have significant Russian speaking population who were mistreated by the Ukrainian side anyway.

[Bobby_2021]

https://www.reuters.com/world/xi-modi-discuss-ukraine-war-with-putin-brics-considers-expansion-2024-10-23/

 

[zazen]

When commies seize assets it’s evil, but when liberal democracies do it, it’s angelic. 

Edited October 24 by zazen

[zazen]

😂😂

[zazen]

Take a look at the comments:

“US mAkEs tHE wOrLD StabLE bRo”

Perhaps Western anti-democratic practices abroad ensures or forces countries to centralise themselves into authoritarian control to shield themselves from foreign interference. They can’t open up into the Democracies the West claims the world should aspire to become because that means opening themselves up to Western interests weasling in.

[Bobby_2021]

I have lost for words on this to be frank. First rule is to respect the results of a democratic election.

These western funded NGOs are playing a dangerous game. The believe it is democratic only if they have the result they want and they are not even hiding it at this point. 

[Nemra]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

Perhaps Western anti-democratic practices abroad ensures or forces countries to centralize themselves into authoritarian control to shield themselves from foreign interference.

Not Georgia, and neither its neighbors are democratic.

The governments there are too corrupt to begin with.

Those western-funded NGO's are primarily composed of liberal people who prefer not to rely on the government.

[Bobby_2021]

@Nemra Just look at the places before and after the west has fucked over with its interference.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, South American banana republics, Cuba, Ukraine, Syria....And I am not even going into the colonial times. These are the countries fucked over in the last 50 years or so.    

Do you want Georgia to be on the same track? 

It is okay to make a mistake once or twice. How many times do expect to make the same mistake again and again and again? At some point you learn, right, right? Interventionism does not work. 

Thank God the government of Georgia is back to its senses. 

12 hours ago, Nemra said:

Those western-funded NGO's are primarily composed of liberal people who prefer not to rely on the government.

These are destabilizing subversive forces operating illegally most of the time for the sole purpose of enriching the pockets of the western neoliberal oligarchs. 

[Nemra]

@Bobby_2021, again, those NGOs were created by the people of the country, which is more corrupt than the U.S.

Also, you are missing an important context, which is the development of the people.

But I agree that interventionalism can backfire, especially when most of the country's population is less developed than the interventionalists'.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

These are destabilizing subversive forces operating illegally most of the time for the sole purpose of enriching the pockets of the western neoliberal oligarchs. 

As if native oligarchs cared about their people enough.

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Just look at the places before and after the west has fucked over with its interference.

Just look at the places that Russia fucked over and still has influence. Or are we going to fault the West for Russia's doings?

Edited October 30 by Nemra

[Bobby_2021]

14 minutes ago, Nemra said:

As if native oligarchs cared about their people enough.

Their oligarchs care more about their people more than western oligarchs. That is all. Putin care more about Russians more than western oligarchs care about Russians or Ukrainians for that matter. 

15 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Just look at the places that Russia fucked over and still has influence.

Pales in comparison to what the west is doing. The most wrongdoings of Russia post-cold war has been a response to counter the growing sphere of influence of the west. You are comparing apples and oranges here. 

17 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Also, you are missing an important context, which is the development of the people.

Interventionism is regressive to the development of the people. This is like suffocating a growing plant or being.

[Nemra]

46 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Their oligarchs care more about their people more than western oligarchs.

Not enough.

Also, I didn't say that people should rely on western oligarchs.

46 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Putin cares more about Russians more than western oligarchs care about Russians or Ukrainians for that matter. 

Just no.

Set aside western oligarchs for a minute.

Of course, at the end of the day, he'll have to listen a bit to those whom he controls.

46 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The most wrongdoings of Russia post-cold war has been a response to counter the growing sphere of influence of the west.

What kind of influence are you referring to?

46 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Interventionism is regressive to the development of the people. This is like suffocating a growing plant or being.

I agree; it can make people cling more to their traditions and even more dogmatic.

Edited October 30 by Nemra

[zazen]

@Bobby_2021  True. Its ironic, Western intervention across the world doesn't help countries become more democratic, in fact the opposite happens as they hunker down against it. On the micro, it regresses the development of people as they become defensively dogmatic and traditional, on the macro, countries become politically centralized to secure themselves against outside meddling - or use it as a excuse for something they already wanted to do.

Some countries are oppressive and dictatorial by their own agency but no doubt Western influence doesn't help spread the democracy they claim they wish to spread. Western influence has either given dictators excuses to be in power, put dictators in power for their own interests or caused countries to reflexively become dictatorships to shield themselves from interference.

A great video and channel for everyone to understand geopolitics:

From above:

''In Georgia, one of the fundamental problems is that many NGO's are funded by the west, by the European Union, but to put this in context, the number of NGOs in Georgia is somewhere up to around 10 and a half to 11,000. Now, the country's pretty small - I mean, how many NGOs are there per square kilometer? It's ridiculous, it's totally disproportionate.

And I think, as well, what was very telling at the time when they had these protests against this "foreign agent" law, but I don't see why the average Georgian would be remotely concerned about this because it doesn't affect them, it's not an issue for them. And it was quite strange and very telling when several European ministers at that time traveled to Georgia, they actually marched with the protesters and gave speeches in support.

And they talk about Russian interference in countries - I mean, it's laughable. The US as well, the state department came out and basically said, "We've warned Georgia of further consequences if the Republic's government does not change." Of course, I mean, talk about dismissing democracy out of hand - it's like, "Well, it's not our democracy, you're not doing what we say, so it's not democratic." Whereas, of course, that's what democracy is. And in fact, the United States' attitude is anything but democratic, it's completely undemocratic.

But it comes back to the point in the West, if you elect the wrong political party, they will have to find ways to remove that party and put the government they want in office. Or even in the European Union, we had referendums that were either ignored or, as it happened in the Netherlands or in Ireland, they made them vote three times until they got the result they wanted. I mean, again, that is not democracy. Democracy effectively is an illusion in the West, and democracy is long since being dead. And if people think getting to vote every four or five years is a democracy, I'm sorry, you're being deceived or you're very naive, one of the two, because you cannot seriously believe that it's a democracy in the country you live in because nothing ever changes. The policy decisions just basically are the same from government to government.''

Edited October 30 by zazen

[Nemra]

In the video above at 10:36, he says "You can't be in Russia's economic orbit without being politically compromised by Russia".

Edited October 30 by Nemra

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

In the video above at 10:36, he says "You can't be in Russia's economic orbit without being politically compromised by Russia".

I can't take this brain rot of a channel seriously. He is the post child for anti russian propaganda.

[Bobby_2021]

@zazen There is nothing to worry as long as you keep the anti democratic forces at bay which I trust the Georgian govt to do.

They have to do a clean crackdown on these illegal NGOs.

[Nemra]

24 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I can't take this brain rot of a channel seriously.

You don't have to.

And neither do I take blind anti-Western crusaders seriously.

But do tell me, what has made you think that his channel is propaganda?

[zazen]

Red pill of a video. Listen from 1hr 04min to learn about Ukraine.

Quite tough as a Westerner to come to the realisation that Western states, in particular the US and Israel are such terrorist states.