Latest Ukraine/Russia Thread

[PurpleTree]

Huge explosion in russian ammunition depot.

russias 3 days special military operation is going great

but here’s a question, which channels are the least biased in terms of reporting losses/gains on either side in your opinion?

Edited October 6 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

it’s about turkey, russia, syria, middle east

and not about ukraine, russia but still quite interesting 

 

[PurpleTree]

i think kyle is a bit annoying also why is he bleaching his hair

but his take here is decent imo

 

 

[El Zapato]

@PurpleTree Because it makes him more money and yes, he is plenty annoying.  Sometimes he gets it though, but even when he is correct he is right for the wrong reasons.

 

Jill Stein is apparently always wrong.

Edited September 19 by El Zapato

[PurpleTree]

somebody said he used to be a cars salesman and that makes total sense

 

these guys like kyle, cenk, candace whatever are always like "look at meee, my opinion is sooo important"

i liked cenk in long slow lex fridman format but  on his own show and in debates i find him nearly unbearable 

[El Zapato]

19 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

somebody said he used to be a cars salesman and that makes total sense

 

these guys like kyle, cenk, candace whatever are always like "look at meee, my opinion is sooo important"

i liked cenk in long slow lex fridman format but  on his own show and in debates i find him nearly unbearable 

 I do agree...way too much.

[Hojo]

If ukraine starts attacking Russia on their soil i question every narrative surrounding this war. We didn't support Ukraine to attack Russia on their own soil and if we did then everyone is lying and the states is in a war with Russia while lying to their people.

Edited September 19 by Hojo

[Lyubov]

18 minutes ago, Hojo said:

If ukraine starts attacking Russia on their soil i question every narrative surrounding this war. We didn't support Ukraine to attack Russia on their own soil and if we did then everyone is lying and the states is in a war with Russia while lying to their people.

I don’t really follow this logic though. Considering this is a war and things change. I think the general consensus is for people who support Ukraine is that Ukraine was attacked by another state which is wishing to rebuild their empire and expand their geographic influence into lands they once had control over. This is Ukraine, a nation state fighting for survival while Russia does not really recognize the Ukrainian state and sees them as Russians who have been sort of colonized by post Soviet western forces through military expansion. 

Russians don’t really recognize Ukrainian sovereignty. They see them as sort of country folk with a different accent but essentially Russian and part of the Russian empire. 

Russia at face value justifies their invasion as a security risk, NATO expansion up against a geopolitical weak point for the state of Russia, flat land that leads to their capital, however when the one man who chose this war, Putin, speaks his mind he reveals this is actually more of a conquest to regain lands he sees historically as Russia. Rebuild a sort of empire that was destroyed when the Soviet Union fell. 
 

In many ways though the identity of the Russian empire has been built a good bit off this geopolitical weakness with all the flat land in Ukraine leading into their Moscow capital, so I do not see this as entirely a lie, there is a point to be made here. I do think there is an element of long term strategic positioning here in terms of wanting to control Ukraine for security for their country. 

[Hojo]

@Lyubov i don't think a country under attack while not belonging to nato can suddenly join nato for America to help them. This seems unjust. I don't even know if they are part of nato right now. America should either help them and leave when the threat is out of their territory or not help at all. To me it seems like a disgusting proxy war tactic and the people of the united states do not want that. Russia is allowed to expand into territories not part of nato and America should shrug. If they want to be part of nato then they should not attack another country on their home turf. If this happens nato is as disgusting as Russia.

If its not the case and nato can be used to expand territories of non nato nations then nato is ukraine is acting as Cuba did to america. We didn't like that. We shouldn't do it.

If this is okay to you then putin is correct in attacking ukraine and justified and we shouldn't have helped then unless we secretly want to destroy Russia through proxy.

Edited September 19 by Hojo

[LoseYourvelf]

6 hours ago, El Zapato said:

@PurpleTree Because it makes him more money and yes, he is plenty annoying.  Sometimes he gets it though, but even when he is correct he is right for the wrong reasons.

im fucking dying, poor guy

[BlueOak]

Another large ammo dump or two have gone up. Which is great because it's the best way to slow fighting.

[BlueOak]

On 19/09/2024 at 4:38 PM, Hojo said:

If ukraine starts attacking Russia on their soil i question every narrative surrounding this war. We didn't support Ukraine to attack Russia on their own soil and if we did then everyone is lying and the states is in a war with Russia while lying to their people.

Russia considers Ukraine their soil.

It was triggered by Russia attacking Kharkiv again, and setting their artillery, aircraft, and supplies just out of reach. You can't fight a war with an arbitrary border that the enemy can sit over safely destroying your country, while not being able to hit back. 

Especially not when their large landmass is their biggest weakness, and your maneuverability is one of your biggest strengths.

*As for 'destroying Russia by proxy' in your other comment, Russia can at any time pull back to Russia, and nobody is going to keep giving Ukraine weapons to fight them. They keep running like headless chickens into this themselves. It's like me making terrible choices in life and blaming you.

Edited September 21 by BlueOak

[Hojo]

@BlueOakIf Russia considers Ukraine Russian soil then it cant pull back into Russia they are already in it. Their territory boundaries are clear, Putin knows its not theirs they are fighting for it. If you attack them on their territory you are just fucking shit up more. If Putin thought Ukraine was Russian soil he would have already declared war on the USA which he might have been right to do if USA proxy attacks Russia via Ukraine.

This should be treated like a school yard fight if one bully is fighting another you can give him a weapon to defend himself not help him murder the bully. You want the bully to change worldview not kill him.

Edited September 21 by Hojo

[BlueOak]

7 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@BlueOakIf Russia considers Ukraine Russian soil then it cant pull back into Russia they are already in it. Their territory boundaries are clear, Putin knows its not theirs they are fighting for it. If you attack them on their territory you are just fucking shit up more.

Russia does indeed consider Ukraine to be its soil. That is the primary reason why it's fighting the war. The best analysis I saw from the Russian perspective described it as a civil war in their eyes.

Of course, in our eyes that position is absurd, which is why we arm Ukraine.

Messing the Russians up more is the way you beat them in the war. You don't win wars by being nice to your opponent, you remove their ability (or reason) to fight, or they continue to.

Edited September 21 by BlueOak

[Hojo]

@BlueOak they are already doing that if you attack them on their land you are jumping on the bully while hes knocked down and helping gang stomp them. That is cowardly.

[Nemra]

@Hojo, Ukraine does not consider itself a part of Russia, which is the most important thing here.

[BlueOak]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@BlueOak they are already doing that if you attack them on their land you are jumping on the bully while hes knocked down and helping gang stomp them. That is cowardly.

Jumping on the bully? Russia is now the victim?

For the last several months Russia has been winning an aggressive land war because they have more artillery and men for a static fight, and its using this line on a map to continually fire missiles, and rockets into Ukranian cities. They have been basing themselves in a safe zone all the while with impunity doing whatever the hell they wanted next door. Scooping up minorities and throwing them into a meatgrinder for a few KM each time.

Somewhere along the line people realised how stupid that was. About the time they started attacking from the north again.

If the airfields are gone no more air superiority>
If the ammo is gone no more shooting.
If the border is pushed back, no more artillery or invasions from the north.

If Russia wants to continue to invade others it doesn't get to sit behind a wall of impunity, it actually gets to fight a war. 

They chose this, they continue to choose this.

[Hojo]

@Nemra Im aware, attacking Russia is asking for more shit than you want. We dont want war

[Nemra]

6 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@BlueOak they are already doing that if you attack them on their land you are jumping on the bully while hes knocked down and helping gang stomp them. That is cowardly.

Russia knocked down? Come on.

War is dirty. Russia was way dirty.

Just now, Hojo said:

@Nemra I'm aware, attacking Russia is asking for more shit than you want. We don't want war.

You don't get to choose for Ukrainians.

[Hojo]

@BlueOak If they want to attack Russia USA should immediately pull everything out.