Definition of an enlightened person

[Sandroew]

I have not been thinking in terms of "enlightenment" for a long time and literally forgot what the term "enlightened person" supposed to mean. I think it is useful to have a definition, since there is a lot of enlightenment talk here on the forum.

A person who's ordinary experience is without the separateness of I and external world.

If you have beef with my definition, please dont write 2000 word essays here, just post the definition that you think would fit better with a short explanaiton if necessary and we can work from there later on.

[Princess Arabia]

No such thing but only in appearance and perceived experience. There's already no separation and no individuals. So it's either we're all enlightened or no one is.

[Sandroew]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

No such thing but only in appearance and perceived experience. There's already no separation and no individuals.

Agreed. Still it is good to have a definition, because of the nature of spiritual talk and people. I want to bring clarity in the language, if that makes sense.

[CosmicExplorer]

Hardcore definition of enlightenment: someone who eliminated all suffering and/or Duhkha*

* Definition of suffering - "Suffering, or pain in a broad sense, may be an experience of unpleasantness or aversion, possibly associated with the perception of harm or threat of harm in an individual"
What Duḥkha means according to Wiki:
"Duḥkha is a term found in the Upanishads and Buddhist texts, meaning anything that is "uneasy, uncomfortable, unpleasant, difficult, causing pain or sadness"

That person can endure professional torture for an indefinite time with no suffering, aversion. He/she can easily sit for 16 or more hours meditating without back support, dullness, or distraction.

Whether there's anybody like that in the world or has ever been is questionable, whether one can stay alive for a prolonged period in that state is also questionable.

Soft definition of enlightenment:

like you said "A person who's ordinary experience is without the separateness of I and external world." so someone who doesn't have the felt "center to the experience" that is the self, typically felt in the head

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

Someone who realizes the absolute 

[Reciprocality]

Person implies wanting

Light is without wanting 

 

So no enlightened person, only moments without wanting

[Reciprocality]

So let me ask you, if you think there is light then why do you want it away?

Also, how often do you remember the things that you have no inclination against or towards? I ask this because if a person could be enlightened then he would need to remember something like that.

Edit:  Surely you could only want something that is secondary to the thing that wants it? And if enlightenment is primary then how could you want it?

Edited September 15 by Reciprocality

[gettoefl]

Enlightened person is an oxymoron

Person thinks they're going to die

Enlightened know they don't

Better ask instead what is enlightenment

Even better still, how do i drop my personhood

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Sandroew said:

I have not been thinking in terms of "enlightenment" for a long time and literally forgot what the term "enlightened person" supposed to mean. I think it is useful to have a definition, since there is a lot of enlightenment talk here on the forum.

A person who's ordinary experience is without the separateness of I and external world.

If you have beef with my definition, please dont write 2000 word essays here, just post the definition that you think would fit better with a short explanaiton if necessary and we can work from there later on.

3 hours ago, Sandroew said:

I have not been thinking in terms of "enlightenment" for a long time and literally forgot what the term "enlightened person" supposed to mean. I think it is useful to have a definition, since there is a lot of enlightenment talk here on the forum.

A person who's ordinary experience is without the separateness of I and external world.

If you have beef with my definition, please dont write 2000 word essays here, just post the definition that you think would fit better with a short explanaiton if necessary and we can work from there later on.

I'd say It's someone who experiences mysticism...and thus experiences ego death and the lack of all duality.   All separation between self and other dissolved.  One who exoeriences God and the mystical nature of God, but also one who has had a total kundalini awakening and becomes Infinite Consciousness.  Becoming conscious of No self, Infinity, Love, Nothingness and Oneness.  All of which are but facets of fhe same One Truth.  If you havent spent hours rolling on the floor writhing in Love and Divine ecstasy then you ain't awake.  If you havent experienced not only ecstasy but also the terror of Oneness or Aloneness then you're not awake.   The enlightened being is not transformed overnight but via a series of mystical awakenings.

Edited September 15 by Inliytened1

[UnbornTao]

Directly conscious of her nature.

Edited September 16 by UnbornTao

[Sandroew]

Thank you everyone for the comments. <3

Since there was not a lot of answers, there is not much to go on here.

I guess we can agree upon atleast two things here:

1. The "substance" of enlightenment in the classical sense is the lack of separateness inbetween I and outside world

2. This needs to be present in the person's everyday experience in order to talk about an "enlightened person" or the person has to have the ability to get into it on command. Meaning i would exclude people from the definition who has had enlightenment experiences (from doing yoga, meditation, psychedelics or in any way), but its not their standard way to function.

Would you agree to this ?

For the people who are commenting there is no such thing as an enlightened person, i understand you very well.
My goal here is to create a definition, that we can all agree upon, when we are talking about this phenomenon (but have so many different ways of saying it). Sort of like creating an actualzed.org forum dictionary if that makes sense.
If you have a different way to refer to this, like @UnbornTao did ("Directly conscious of her nature."), thats fair game, please submit your answers!

(Maybe i'll just quote Leo from one of his videos to achieve this and then there is that. Lol)

Edited September 16 by Sandroew

[Sandroew]

Also, @Inliytened1

21 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'd say It's someone who experiences mysticism...and thus experiences ego death and the lack of all duality.   All separation between self and other dissolved.  One who exoeriences God and the mystical nature of God, but also one who has had a total kundalini awakening and becomes Infinite Consciousness.  Becoming conscious of No self, Infinity, Love, Nothingness and Oneness.  All of which are but facets of fhe same One Truth.

I would argue against this. I think one can have just the feeling of separateness torn down, without having these other deeper truths realized.
Like the dissolution of separateness is the first step. Of course im not talking from experience here.

Edited September 16 by Sandroew

[Terell Kirby]

@Sandroew no one person or persons can define themselves as enlightened. It helps to be skeptical of such claims. Try to remove any legitimacy you give to human constructed ideas of enlightenment.

Infinity trumps any human notion of enlightenment. And it can only be realized in your direct experience through Consciousness work.

Edited September 16 by Terell Kirby

[Sandroew]

Again, im not looking for an explanation of enlightenment. I understand it very well intellectually.

I wish to create this definition for us, so when we are talking about this phenomenon, we woudl not have to have the same conversations all the time.

Maybe im delusional for trying this.

[Ishanga]

41 minutes ago, Sandroew said:

Thank you everyone for the comments. <3

Since there was not a lot of answers, there is not much to go on here.

I guess we can agree upon atleast two things here:

1. The "substance" of enlightenment in the classical sense is the lack of separateness inbetween I and outside world

2. This needs to be present in the person's everyday experience in order to talk about an "enlightened person" or the person has to have the ability to get into it on command. Meaning i would exclude people from the definition who has had enlightenment experiences (from doing yoga, meditation, psychedelics or in any way), but its not their standard way to function.

Would you agree to this ?

For the people who are commenting there is no such thing as an enlightened person, i understand you very well.
My goal here is to create a definition, that we can all agree upon, when we are talking about this phenomenon (but have so many different ways of saying it). Sort of like creating an actualzed.org forum dictionary if that makes sense.
If you have a different way to refer to this, like @UnbornTao did ("Directly conscious of her nature."), thats fair game, please submit your answers!

(Maybe i'll just quote Leo from one of his videos to achieve this and then there is that. Lol)

There are "Enlightened Persons" lol, otherwise what is there for Enlightenment to appear and be present and most importantly to be Experienced!

This thing about no Individuality, no individual Body and Mind is a misnomer, there are such things, it is just that we are not those things, we have those things to use while we are here on this plane and existence, which is Material, Dual and Chaotic, but the essence of what we are is Absolute, Brahman, Shiva and/or Godly, it is just embodied within each of Us.

Human Beings are just the most capable of all the life "Forms" to be able to be Conscious of this Absolute as our fundamental nature and Being, this is Enlightenment, and it can be a temporary experience or a permanent one, the permanent one usually only happens when one has been doing some Sadhana for a long time generally speaking. If on psychedelics one gets a Glimpse of it, but it goes away when the drug wears off, so that is not really it but close to it..

From what I have researched, most ppl at the moment of Enlightenment leave the body (like Mahasamahdi), the Body and nervous system and all the rest have to get used to the energy intensity and other changes that can happen, mostly only the Masters/Gurus can stay on since they know all these tricks of the Body and Mind/Energy systems and can consciously control it and their karma too, if karma is dissolved and completed then Your Individuality is done, you merge with Absolute and its over, no more birth/death cycle for You..

 

Edited September 16 by Ishanga

[Terell Kirby]

14 minutes ago, Sandroew said:

Maybe im delusional for trying this.

There’s definitely tons of self deception in this line of work 

[PurpleTree]

an enlightened person is always nice to the barista even when he/she’s annoying or arrogant 

[Sandroew]

On 2024. 09. 16. at 7:05 PM, Ishanga said:

There are "Enlightened Persons" lol, otherwise what is there for Enlightenment to appear and be present and most importantly to be Experienced!

 

That is also true, you are taking it to the next level here, completing a full circle. Good freaking job brother. Nice explanation too.

Just for your comment it was already worth to start this topic (not to disregard others!!). Im too busy right now to fully look into everything you just said there, but i'll take time to for that and im looking forward for reading more from you.

[What Am I]

In my experience, this is a pretty good description. What's important to understand is that he's describing a living condition of being, not a dead conceptual paradigm. It's a drastic change in perception that's at the same time totally different from anything you've ever experienced, and also exactly right back where you've been all along.

I'm personally very far from enlightenment, but I've come far enough to know that what's described here is what can be expected in regards to a typical "attainment" of enlightenment.

And here's a detailed explanation of how that state of being feels.

 

Edited September 17 by What Am I