Quit Being Serious, Proclaiming I am GOD!!

[Ishanga]

4 hours ago, BlueOak said:

When part of you is suffering its suffering. Its literally trapped in your nervous system. We fracture ourselves into pieces through traumatic events, especially those in our childhood that were not equipped to deal with. Animals do it too, then they roar, bark, shake themselves, run around but humans don't do this, they hold onto it. Then they get emotional states or experiences that happen related to it that repeat for the rest of their life till they become aware of it.

You can ignore it I suppose, but this is terrible advice because it will keep repeating and repeating and repeating until finally you do what you were supposed to do. This is true on the micro and macro.

I used to be a master at evading my emotions, I was initially drawn to spirituality in the 2010's as yet another way to avoid pieces of myself that were suffering. I could bliss myself out and ignore everything.

You are EVERYTHING. NOT JUST BLISS!
Thank you for settling this for me once and for all, I needed that finality.

My nervous system, like Yours and all others, is not Me, I am not this Body or Mind, but we are deeply Identified with our Body and Mind because we need to be to survive another day, this identification mechanism that is inborn within us is there for a Survival purpose only, as Human Beings we can live way beyond the Survival level of Awareness, that is why we are here, to explore that Potential, and any experience of Suffering within You will stop that Potential from coming into Your Life and Awareness.

We are not Everything,  rather we have the Potential to be Everything, but we have to choose it, Free Will is the mechanism we use to choose what to be, how to be, when to be, where to be... I choose to not Suffer and be Blissful because this empowers Life Potential within Me, and everyone, Suffering does the opposite, it disempowers potential and stifles it from ever coming into anyone's life!

Edited Monday at 01:04 AM by Ishanga

[Ishanga]

 

[BlueOak]

13 hours ago, Ishanga said:

My nervous system, like Yours and all others, is not Me, I am not this Body or Mind, but we are deeply Identified with our Body and Mind because we need to be to survive another day, this identification mechanism that is inborn within us is there for a Survival purpose only, as Human Beings we can live way beyond the Survival level of Awareness, that is why we are here, to explore that Potential, and any experience of Suffering within You will stop that Potential from coming into Your Life and Awareness.

We are not Everything,  rather we have the Potential to be Everything, but we have to choose it, Free Will is the mechanism we use to choose what to be, how to be, when to be, where to be... I choose to not Suffer and be Blissful because this empowers Life Potential within Me, and everyone, Suffering does the opposite, it disempowers potential and stifles it from ever coming into anyone's life!

The I AM: Everything is you.
The self: You are unable to see value or expansion or X in suffering. I've seen tremendous value and expansion or X in suffering.

The self: You see it as a negative, as counter to your potential. I see it as a necessary and loved part of life. I love suffering, I see tremendous potential in suffering, the healing of it, the exploration of it, the protection/learning/growth/humbling etc  I love healing. I love the food I just ate. I love the shelter over my head. I love the computer, this forum, the stress I am receiving from work. I do not need to avoid these things or dissociate from them. Thank you for reminding me of the last one. They are not counter to my potential unless I decide they are, and I decide and define potential as avoidance or disassociation from these things.

Neither of us is wrong or right from the perspective of the self.

The I AM: I am already dreaming/imagining/thinking this reality to manifest it. I can't be less or more dreaming. I can't be less or more the absolute or the I AM. This is inside the self's imagined mind. Where you are creating the process of disassociation so you can experience it.

The self can picture this person is more awake than this person etc, they can create hierarchies and structures out of the dream but it's just in their head. What they are saying to me usually is, this part (person) of me is less awake than this part of me, or sometimes I want to avoid this part of me (person), or I don't know how to elevate or put into context what they just said with my own reality. Its all you so *shrug* you are always judging yourself.

Edited Monday at 01:58 PM by BlueOak

[Ishanga]

9 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

The I AM: Everything is you.
The self: You are unable to see value or expansion or X in suffering. I've seen tremendous value and expansion or X in suffering.

The self: You see it as a negative, as counter to your potential. I see it as a necessary and loved part of life. I love suffering, I see tremendous potential in suffering, the healing of it, the exploration of it, the protection/learning/growth/humbling etc  I love healing. I love the food I just ate. I love the shelter over my head. I love the computer, this forum, the stress I am receiving from work. I do need to avoid these things or dissociate from them. Thank you for reminding me of the last one. They are not counter to my potential unless I decide they are, and I decide and define potential as avoidance or disassociation from these things.

Neither of us is wrong or right from the perspective of the self.

The I AM: I am already dreaming/imagining/thinking this reality to manifest it. I can't be less or more dreaming. I can't be less or more the absolute or the I AM. This is inside the self's imagined mind. Where you are creating the process of disassociation so you can experience it.

The self can picture this person is more awake than this person etc, they can create hierarchies and structures out of the dream but it's just in their head. What they are saying to me usually is, this part (person) of me is less awake than this part of me, or sometimes I want to avoid this part of me (person), or I don't know how to elevate or put into context what they just said with my own reality. Its all you so *shrug* you are always judging yourself.

There is the path of finding Truth via Suffering, but I think it is a very hard path and a risky one, One can tend to not get out of the Suffering and it swallows them up whole and then they are stuck there Suffering.

The path of Bliss is much safer and in the end its is a allot more fun and enjoyable, but to each their own, they have to choose which path is correct for them, that is the whole idea behind Free Will, or the ability to Respond, this is our basic Human ability that makes us Human!

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

There is the path of finding Truth via Suffering, but I think it is a very hard path and a risky one, One can tend to not get out of the Suffering and it swallows them up whole and then they are stuck there Suffering.

The path of suffering is the natural path, you suffer and without being able to avoid it you look for a way out, uninterruptedly. You try everything and you realize that the external searching is only evasion, that suffering is going to continue there, you turn inward, you come to the conclusion that it is better to be dead than to suffer uninterruptedly, you break all the barriers, you become indifferent to fear, and in the end you break the shell of the ego.

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The path of suffering is the natural path, you suffer and without being able to avoid it you look for a way out, uninterruptedly. You try everything and you realize that the external searching is only evasion, that suffering is going to continue there, you turn inward, you come to the conclusion that it is better to be dead than to suffer uninterruptedly, you break all the barriers, you become indifferent to fear, and in the end you break the shell of the ego.

It is the natural path because suffering and ego go hand in hand, and we are born with the ego online, maybe it doesn't become active until age 1 or 2 but its there, and it gets stronger each day afterwards, but its a hard path like I said.  

To go beyond this one has to seek it, like learning how to spell, read and write, that did not come naturally, we had to seek it out and learn it, its the same here, just because something is natural does not mean its the best thing for us, so as Humans we can seek the way we want to go and be within ourselves, its a game, via that game that each of us plays, we evolve and via that Existence gets to know itself!

[El Zapato]

19 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I don't need a half hr video to tell me the Universe is conscious. What I'm asking is if every sentient being has it's own free will. You said an ant has it's own free will. So therefore it has freedom of choice. You made a statement on your own so have the answer on your own. Saying the Universe is conscious doesn't answer the question of do insects have free will.

Maybe everything is operating on intelligence and there's no free will anywhere of any kind.

ok, I concluded that free will exists and is exemplified by the physical properties of Planck's Constant and Heisenberg's indeterminacy principle, Some things in cosmic creation are open/closed simultaneously...Why not consider that a glimpse into the nature of free will?  In my estimation, the works of the likes of Rupert Sheldrake are concrete examples of that concept?

[BlueOak]

On 16/09/2024 at 0:10 PM, Ishanga said:

There is the path of finding Truth via Suffering, but I think it is a very hard path and a risky one, One can tend to not get out of the Suffering and it swallows them up whole and then they are stuck there Suffering.

The path of Bliss is much safer and in the end its is a allot more fun and enjoyable, but to each their own, they have to choose which path is correct for them, that is the whole idea behind Free Will, or the ability to Respond, this is our basic Human ability that makes us Human!

Thank you and the others for helping me collapse this duality, its been a thing I've struggled with all my life I was shown the extremes in infinite love and infinite sorrow for perspective, but it's a thing I've been balancing forever.

They are the same. Its the same energy. No need to avoid, or pick a preference, you just love. That's it.

[SOUL]

@Ishanga I see you mention suffering or more specifically the cessation of suffering as your focus not seeking truth and I appreciate this. Although, allow my to expand on this for a moment in a way that I hope will help.

I focus on liberation which is the cessation of 'self suffering' and that modifier is a crucial one. As long as we have our bodies we will suffer, if we stub our toe it hurts, when we get hungry there is a pang in our gut, we can get a headache or sunburn, all these are physical suffering that don't go away just because we may have liberation from 'self suffering'.

Self suffering is the psychological angst, conflict and misery one suffers in consciousness. It can arise from physical conditions and be about them, but they aren't those 'sufferings' itself. Often our self suffering isn't a direct result of our conditions but what we imagine they are and not what they really are, what they could be but aren't yet or from the past that may have had similar conditions.

As well as all the searching we do for meaning, purpose, understanding and truth can cause self suffering. In fact, this forum is a prime example of those searches can cause self suffering, those pursuits are often obstacles to liberation and seemingly the reason why well-intentioned people separate themselves from liberation.

The comparing and measuring of our perceptions and experiences with others in agreement or not can be an exercise of self suffering, Our self identity has a need to affirm and confirm our 'truth' with others or find another method, technique or conceptualization to help us attain something that the self identity is actually denying us.

The very entity that is creating the separation from liberation through all sorts of ideas and activity is seeking more ideas and activities to solve it. There are always the endless supply of ideas and activities that are the distraction the ego believes are a solution to the problem it doesn't really want to solve because it doesn't serve its desire as self identity.

The self identity is the truth seeker, the meaning maker, the purpose pursuer, the spiritual activity doer. It wants to 'get' the fruits of the spiritual path, it gets the reward of the work, it possesses the states of consciousness, it is the 'god'. It will even self identify as 'no-self' as long as it's desire for attention and justification is fed....but never satisfied.

Except that liberation isn't an activity, it's not an idea, not meaning, not purpose, it's not even truth. it is just being it, being liberated is a cessation from self suffering and everything that would create self uffering in our awareness of the moment. Being in liberation is abiding in presence.

So my reccomendation is not let all the things self identity uses in justifing itself to distract from being present in liberation. All the churning it does to imagine what it requires for 'freedom' is the root of self suffering and the chains that prevent liberation. It is just being it and that presence will fulfill everything we do, say, think, feel and believe no matter what it is.

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

@Ishanga I see you mention suffering or more specifically the cessation of suffering as your focus not seeking truth and I appreciate this. Although, allow my to expand on this for a moment in a way that I hope will help.

I focus on liberation which is the cessation of 'self suffering' and that modifier is a crucial one. As long as we have our bodies we will suffer, if we stub our toe it hurts, when we get hungry there is a pang in our gut, we can get a headache or sunburn, all these are physical suffering that don't go away just because we may have liberation from 'self suffering'.

Self suffering is the psychological angst, conflict and misery one suffers in consciousness. It can arise from physical conditions and be about them, but they aren't those 'sufferings' itself. Often our self suffering isn't a direct result of our conditions but what we imagine they are and not what they really are, what they could be but aren't yet or from the past that may have had similar conditions.

As well as all the searching we do for meaning, purpose, understanding and truth can cause self suffering. In fact, this forum is a prime example of those searches can cause self suffering, those pursuits are often obstacles to liberation and seemingly the reason why well-intentioned people separate themselves from liberation.

The comparing and measuring of our perceptions and experiences with others in agreement or not can be an exercise of self suffering, Our self identity has a need to affirm and confirm our 'truth' with others or find another method, technique or conceptualization to help us attain something that the self identity is actually denying us.

The very entity that is creating the separation from liberation through all sorts of ideas and activity is seeking more ideas and activities to solve it. There are always the endless supply of ideas and activities that are the distraction the ego believes are a solution to the problem it doesn't really want to solve because it doesn't serve its desire as self identity.

The self identity is the truth seeker, the meaning maker, the purpose pursuer, the spiritual activity doer. It wants to 'get' the fruits of the spiritual path, it gets the reward of the work, it possesses the states of consciousness, it is the 'god'. It will even self identify as 'no-self' as long as it's desire for attention and justification is fed....but never satisfied.

Except that liberation isn't an activity, it's not an idea, not meaning, not purpose, it's not even truth. it is just being it, being liberated is a cessation from self suffering and everything that would create self uffering in our awareness of the moment. Being in liberation is abiding in presence.

So my reccomendation is not let all the things self identity uses in justifing itself to distract from being present in liberation. All the churning it does to imagine what it requires for 'freedom' is the root of self suffering and the chains that prevent liberation. It is just being it and that presence will fulfill everything we do, say, think, feel and believe no matter what it is.

Stubbing toe and hunger and sunburn are not suffering, that is Pain, pain will always exist as long as You have a Body and Mind, Suffering is not that, Suffering is You stub your toe, it heals, the pain is no longer there, but You constantly bring it up in Your mind and relive it moment to moment and feel it over and over again, so Suffering for the most part is Mind Made...

[SOUL]

52 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Stubbing toe and hunger and sunburn are not suffering, that is Pain, pain will always exist as long as You have a Body and Mind, Suffering is not that, Suffering is You stub your toe, it heals, the pain is no longer there, but You constantly bring it up in Your mind and relive it moment to moment and feel it over and over again, so Suffering for the most part is Mind Made...

Suffering is not pain? Dictionary disagrees with your definition.

Quote

suffer /sŭf′ər/

intransitive verb

To feel pain or distress; sustain injury or harm.

So you say suffering is the mind imagining something that isn't actually happening? Well, that's what I call self suffering because according to the dictionary suffering is the actual pain.

Self suffering is the mind causing psychological pain and distress, it's in the mind. This is the reason I make this distinction and I find many get confused when it is said liberation is the cessation of suffering rather than the cessation of self suffering.

Of course, we could also say that the body is part of the 'self' so it isn't completely accurate to make the distinction this way but it seems to bring more clarity than without it.

I guess it could be called 'ego suffering' though it feels a bit awkward of a phrase, it might make more sense.

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:17 PM by SOUL

[Ishanga]

42 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Suffering is not pain? Dictionary disagrees with your definition.

So you say suffering is the mind imagining something that isn't actually happening? Well, that's what I call self suffering because according to the dictionary suffering is the actual pain.

Self suffering is the mind causing psychological pain and distress, it's in the mind. This is the reason I make this distinction and I find many get confused when it is said liberation is the cessation of suffering rather than the cessation of self suffering.

Of course, we could also say that the body is part of the 'self' so it isn't completely accurate to make the distinction this way but it seems to bring more clarity than without it.

I guess it could be called 'ego suffering' though it feels a bit awkward of a phrase, it might make more sense.

 

Right now I have a muscle strain in my upper rear left back/should area, its been there for two weeks and it effects my neck at times, its a discomfort, but its not a suffering, its minor pain at times, but I can still use my body as needed at work, if I was suffering this would not be possible.. Big difference btwn pain and suffering...

When we realize "I am not the Body or Mind" then Suffering is gone, as suffering is in the mind, where else would it be? If You had no mind then how would You suffer? But You will still feel the pain of the toe stubb and lost luv but it won't make You suffer, suffering is always a choice, unconscious choice for most.. Once You master that, then life opens up!

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Right now I have a muscle strain in my upper rear left back/should area, its been there for two weeks and it effects my neck at times, its a discomfort, but its not a suffering, its minor pain at times, but I can still use my body as needed at work, if I was suffering this would not be possible.. Big difference btwn pain and suffering...

When we realize "I am not the Body or Mind" then Suffering is gone, as suffering is in the mind, where else would it be? If You had no mind then how would You suffer? But You will still feel the pain of the toe stubb and lost luv but it won't make You suffer, suffering is always a choice, unconscious choice for most.. Once You master that, then life opens up!

Well, if you want to have your own definitions for words and build a belief system around those personal definitions you are welcome to do so but don't expect anyone else to understand what you are talking about and be aware that when you are 'correcting' them according to your personal definitions there can be the possibility for misunderstanding.

Good luck with that.

Peace.

[Javfly33]

7 hours ago, SOUL said:

Suffering is not pain? Dictionary disagrees with your definition.

So you say suffering is the mind imagining something that isn't actually happening? Well, that's what I call self suffering because according to the dictionary suffering is the actual pain.

Self suffering is the mind causing psychological pain and distress, it's in the mind. This is the reason I make this distinction and I find many get confused when it is said liberation is the cessation of suffering rather than the cessation of self suffering.

Of course, we could also say that the body is part of the 'self' so it isn't completely accurate to make the distinction this way but it seems to bring more clarity than without it.

I guess it could be called 'ego suffering' though it feels a bit awkward of a phrase, it might make more sense.

 

pain is the 'information' of the body, suffering is a reaction to this 'information'

Pain can not be avoided because if your body works good it should happen (is information to 'warn' you about the state of the body). Suffering is a reaction to this warning (due to fear mainly). 

[Ishanga]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

pain is the 'information' of the body, suffering is a reaction to this 'information'

Pain can not be avoided because if your body works good it should happen (is information to 'warn' you about the state of the body). Suffering is a reaction to this warning (due to fear mainly). 

Nicely Put!

[SOUL]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

pain is the 'information' of the body, suffering is a reaction to this 'information'

Pain can not be avoided because if your body works good it should happen (is information to 'warn' you about the state of the body). Suffering is a reaction to this warning (due to fear mainly). 

Interesting, another person that has their own personal definition of a word and wants to instruct me according to their own personal definition.

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Interesting, another person that has their own personal definition of a word and wants to instruct me according to their own personal definition.

No, they are right, when we talk about suffering we aren't talking about physical pain. For example, I have a problem, I have very loud tinnitus due to a ruptured eardrum, I can hear it even if I put the headphones at full volume. that tinnitus per se is not suffering, but it can cause suffering. It depends on whether I create suffering based on that tinnitus or not. If instead of tinnitus it were chronic hives of maximum intensity throughout the body, it is very possible that it would be difficult to avoid the suffering associated with it. If instead of hives he were being tortured with hot irons for 8 hours each day, it would be even more difficult (although possible) to avoid suffering, and during the 16 hours that i was not being tortured i would create suffering in anticipation of the next session. We call this suffering, anxiety, the dissonance between what is and what should be. What should be is not to be tortured again tomorrow, and this makes me suffer enormously. 

[SOUL]

@Breakingthewall  Maybe you all can just link your personal dictionary in your signature so others know what you mean with the words you use, since you have personal definitions for them. You know, it seems the commonly accepted definitions aren't suitable for you.

 

Let me ask...do animals suffer? Or is it only psychological for them, too?

Edited Wednesday at 02:50 PM by SOUL

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Let me ask...do animals suffer? Or is it only psychological for them, too?

In animals, the vibration created by a certain nervous impulse, which is what we call pain, creates suffering. Suffering is the difference between what is and what should be. If an animal is next to a flame, it suffers because what it should be is not to be burned, so it moves until the flame does not burn it. This is survival software.

A human functions like the animal but also on another level, it has another living entity attached to it, the ego mind, which evolves and lives exactly the same as any other living entity, only it is not physical, and like any other living entity, it suffers as a survival mechanism. . The ego does not suffer only from the flame, but from the memory of the flame, and from not having enough likes on Instagram, since its basis of survival is acceptance and rejection, it is a tribal, hive entity.

But just as in an animal, pain is not suffering per se but a source of suffering, rejection is not suffering per se but a source of suffering. many people suffer more from being rejected than from having a tooth pulled without anesthesia

[SOUL]

@Breakingthewall  That's quite a belief system you have created there. So, let's see if I understand.

When we are talking about animals, then the accepted definition of suffer applies yet when we are talking about humans, which also are animals but don't let that distract you, the accepted definition doesn't apply.

So animals don't also have memory of something, thus don't have psychological reactions to something that may not be actually happening? It isn't that they are not fully aware of this dynamic happening, it's that it doesn't happen at all?