Are most people in the US stuck in an echo chamber or epistemic bubble?

[Hardkill]

I just realized something. 

Most Americans don't regularly follow politics or watch the news. They say that only about 15% of people in America have made a habit of following and listening to good quality new sources and only about 25% of American people follow fox news and/or other right-wing political commentary shows regularly.

Therefore, if most people haven't been actively seeking out news, including right-wing sources, then how can this toxic media environment we've been in for several years have contributed to such widespread polarization? How has it caused almost half of the country to be stuck in an echo chamber or epistemic bubble?

Edited September 12 by Hardkill

[questionreality]

You are right, and this applies not just to US but to most of the countries.

I was surprised to find that the majority of people on this forum are also stuck in echo chambers (predominantly left).

If that's what you get on an "actualized" forum, in other places you would probably find 10x worse.

Most people create an identity out of their political views, hence it's easier just to consume the information that confirms their own biases, rather than question them.

Until the left and the right start calling out BS from their own sides, we will not get anywhere.

For someone who doesn't identity with the left nor the right, it became very amusing to me to observe the zoo of the political landscape. 

 

 

[ryandesreu]

One possibility could be that it is really just a small percentage of big mouths, bots, and or foreign interference online.

Another possibility could be that the 15% that watch the news are spreading it to other citizens via word of mouth.

People could appear polarized online but when you talk to them in person they are different to avoid in person conflict.

Yet another possibility could be that people are consuming news in bits and pieces from shady sources.

It is likely any number of these possibilities and more.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, questionreality said:

I was surprised to find that the majority of people on this forum are also stuck in echo chambers (predominantly left).

There can be. But you have posted some cringe right-wing takes though. 

[Alex4]

You don't need to watch the news regularly to become polarized. What these people precisely need is to consume high-quality sources. 

In history, there are numerous examples of wars that have started solely due to rivalry between two nobles. While 90% of the population couldn't even read.

[Reciprocality]

@Hardkill 1. Because judgements or opinions makes reality orderly, 2. because we remember new information (certainly so far as it connects to our personal identity) with higher intensity than old information, 3. because novel information is chaotic in relation to the rest of our knowledge without a judgement or opinion about that information and lastly 4. because our innate nature is to reduce chaos.

Apply the general principles above to the subject of the post "why do the perspectives of a minority of people dominate the public discourse that concerns the majority of people?".

The judgements of the minority of people about why novel things are the way they are and what should be done about it reduces the chaotic/neurotic relation it has to people to whom it a. were intensely remembered and b. relates personally and c. who has not thought about it nearly as much as the minority.

Edited September 13 by Reciprocality

[Reciprocality]

It may not seem like it at first glance but I would argue that the above is actually sufficient for interpreting why there is an epistemic bubble as you put it, if the opinions of the minority were to be effective and the relevant country had something of a democracy then the effect described above of controlling the majority narrative would be a necessity, in which case the appeal to a lower common denominator (for whom judgements concerning personal and vividly remembered novel information were not readily passed) would take a fairly homogenous form.

Edited September 13 by Reciprocality

[El Zapato]

12 hours ago, questionreality said:

You are right, and this applies not just to US but to most of the countries.

I was surprised to find that the majority of people on this forum are also stuck in echo chambers (predominantly left).

If that's what you get on an "actualized" forum, in other places you would probably find 10x worse.

Most people create an identity out of their political views, hence it's easier just to consume the information that confirms their own biases, rather than question them.

Until the left and the right start calling out BS from their own sides, we will not get anywhere.

For someone who doesn't identity with the left nor the right, it became very amusing to me to observe the zoo of the political landscape. 

 

 

As my daughter said to me (when she was in high school).  It isn't about politics, it is about values.  

[El Zapato]

11 hours ago, ryandesreu said:

One possibility could be that it is really just a small percentage of big mouths, bots, and or foreign interference online.

Another possibility could be that the 15% that watch the news are spreading it to other citizens via word of mouth.

People could appear polarized online but when you talk to them in person they are different to avoid in person conflict.

Yet another possibility could be that people are consuming news in bits and pieces from shady sources.

It is likely any number of these possibilities and more.

We are two different subspecies.  And one is headed for extinction.  It is so obvious to me.  

 

1 hour ago, Reciprocality said:

It may not seem like it at first glance but I would argue that the above is actually sufficient for interpreting why there is an epistemic bubble as you put it, if the opinions of the minority were to be effective and the relevant country had something of a democracy then the effect described above of controlling the majority narrative would be a necessity, in which case the appeal to a lower common denominator (for whom judgements concerning personal and vividly remembered novel information were not readily passed) would take a fairly homogenous form.

Narratives are the root of the problem.  Narratives are for someone else, not me.  I listen to the mental soliloquies of the parties in question.

Should anyone ask, yes, I am psychic.  

Edited September 13 by El Zapato
added info

[Reciprocality]

16 minutes ago, El Zapato said:

Narratives are the root of the problem.  Narratives are for someone else, not me.  I listen to the mental soliloquies of the parties in question.

@El Zapato But how do we get mulitmillion nations to not be governed by narratives, and if there are no alternative to narratives then mustn't there something underlying narratives that is the true root to the problem of which the narratives are mere symptoms?

Edited September 13 by Reciprocality

[El Zapato]

13 hours ago, Hardkill said:

I just realized something. 

Most Americans don't regularly follow politics or watch the news. They say that only about 15% of people in America have made a habit of following and listening to good quality new sources and only about 25% of American people follow fox news and/or other right-wing political commentary shows regularly.

Therefore, if most people haven't been actively seeking out news, including right-wing sources, then how can this toxic media environment we've been in for several years have contributed to such widespread polarization? How has it caused almost half of the country to be stuck in an echo chamber or epistemic bubble?

it is mostly us old folks that regularly imbibe in watching news.  Fox news folks are deluded and propagandized until it is coming out of their ears. Maybe stupid as well, but, in truth, I concluded long ago that it wasn't intelligence that was the deciding factor, it is likely more genetics than anything else.  Some people, unfortunately for them are born with the genetics of a failing subspecies.  In a modern society, the penchant for predation takes a back seat to understanding cooperation and altruism take precedence and is the way forward.

Edited September 13 by El Zapato

[El Zapato]

6 minutes ago, Reciprocality said:

@El Zapato But how do we get mulitmillion nations to not be governed by narratives, and if there are no alternative to narratives then mustn't there something underlying narratives that is the true root to the problem of which the narratives are mere symptoms?

See my following post...  Actually prior post...

Edited September 13 by El Zapato

[questionreality]

10 hours ago, aurum said:

There can be. But you have posted some cringe right-wing takes though. 

Thanks for proving my point

[Basman]

15 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Therefore, if most people haven't been actively seeking out news, including right-wing sources, then how can this toxic media environment we've been in for several years have contributed to such widespread polarization? How has it caused almost half of the country to be stuck in an echo chamber or epistemic bubble?

It is really just a minority that are these loud extremists that won't give an inch in a debate. It is in part a consequence of social media optimizing for emotionally engaging content.

Because the environment has become so dominated by a minority of extremist opinions that no one wants to voice their own opinions that are outside of certain ideological camps. Nobody wants to deal with crazy. The current media environment is unsafe for open discussion in certain contexts.

Edited September 13 by Basman

[Schizophonia]

Everybody.

[aurum]

5 hours ago, questionreality said:

Thanks for proving my point

I’m not saying you’re a right-winger. I imagine you have an open mind.

But dude, take the feedback. I’m not looking to attack you.

I’ve posted plenty of cringey stuff on here. It happens. Our political discourse is hot garbage right now, and politics itself is notoriously hard to understand.

The purpose of being here is learning. So just stay open.

[Hardkill]

So, what I am getting from some of you here is that even with certain people who don't follow the right-wing media regularly will eventually hear about from some other way, like the ways you mentioned above such as word-of-mouth and social networks, local and regional media, cultural resonance, demographic targeting, etc.

Also, I will say that right-wing talking points and framing often get picked up by mainstream media, amplifying their reach and legitimizing their views. Moreover, in some areas or communities, conservative voices may dominate the discourse, leaving little room for alternative perspectives.

[What Am I]

From my perspective, aurum is one of the good ones, in the sense that he's not nearly as susceptible to the gravitational pull of unconscious tribalism. A legit effort is made to take an objective view.

After the recent debate, when everyone had simply downloaded their opinions and expected behaviors from the Borg, he maintained a cautious optimism while keeping in mind that things may not always be as they seem. Social media can create the illusion of a popular opinion, but that doesn't mean it's actually true, at least not to the degree it's portrayed.