Is yellow intellectualism transcended at Turquoise?

[Carl-Richard]

You became New Age, is what happened 😆 And I'm being serious.

[Fountainbleu]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You became New Age, is what happened 😆 And I'm being serious.

Do you care to explain?

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Fountainbleu said:

Do you care to explain?

 

The idea that thinking is a waste of time is a religious idea you can put on and off like clothing. It doesn't have to reflect a deep transformation of cognition. As for the transformation from Yellow to Turquoise, the key feature is not less time spent on thinking. It's how you think.

[Carl-Richard]

20 minutes ago, Fountainbleu said:

Do you care to explain?

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not denying that you might have had an authentic transformation away from being constantly lost in thought to living more peacefully. Nevertheless, that is not something Spiral Dynamics tracks, despite how popular a belief that is.

The key feature of the transformation from Yellow to Turquoise is not less time spent on thinking. It's how you think.

The idea that thinking is a waste of time is a religious idea you can put on and off like clothing. It doesn't have to reflect a deep transformation of cognition.

Edited September 12 by Carl-Richard

[Fountainbleu]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not denying that you might have had an authentic transformation away from being constantly lost in thought to living more peacefully. Nevertheless, that is not something Spiral Dynamics tracks, despite how popular a belief that is.

The key feature of the transformation from Yellow to Turquoise is not less time spent on thinking. It's how you think.

The idea that thinking is a waste of time is a religious idea you can put on and off like clothing. It doesn't have to reflect a deep transformation of cognition.

I think one of the key things defining a new ager is lacking spiritual depth- which I do not. I hang out in the new age circles but I believe it's mostly to align with healing. I have made some great connections that I'm very grateful for but for the most part I'm a lone wolf. And I'm not interested in the typical dialogue about Astrology or anything else of the new age sort. 

I'm seeking clarity to the purpose of your post. 

And if someone likes to do yoga and meditate I don't see the relevance. What does that have to do with anything? New age is just a label.

I agree with you that how you think is a large aspect. And to be clear, I'm not claiming to be base level Turquoise.

 

PS: If you could please share with me the link to the video I would appreciate it, I don't see it.
 

Edited September 12 by Fountainbleu

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The key feature of the transformation from Yellow to Turquoise is not less time spent on thinking. It's how you think.

"How" meaning? 

I wonder if it's more "what", than "how". The what directs the how. You think like(how) this because of what?  The what seems more fundamental, but maybe I'm just mental! 

To me, it seems the cause is a change in values. Endlessly stuffing random knowledge and non-stop contemplation into your psyche seems to be let go at a certain point, in favor of something else. 

 

Edited September 12 by Joshe

[TheEnigma]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:47 AM, Lila9 said:

I think that yellow has genuine intellectual open-mindedness, it wants to know without being committed to any idea and without any agenda. It seeks truth and true knowledge and is courageous enough to face it. It seeks the truth beyond all the smoke screens of culture and socialization. Yellow is the foundation for turquoise.
At some point, after the deconstruction of the components of reality, and perhaps also the self and the ego, yellow reaches a point where things can no longer be understood intellectually, and it realizes the downside of relying heavily on intellectuality alone.
After all this long path, there are still many things that remain uncovered, and the amount of mystery is infinite.
So they surrender to the not knowing and start to value childlike innocence, playfulness, joy, the present moment itself, the beauty, and the interconnectedness of this world on the energetic level, which they feel a part of rather than observing and judging reality from the outside, as yellow does. Everything is backed by a good amount of wisdom.
They are reality they play with it, live it, and feel it. They are existence itself, not as knowledge or an idea in their mind they have discovered but as a feeling in their body and their being.

I think the transition from yellow to turquoise is not immediate but gradual, as with any stage.
So if you are not 100% sure where you are, maybe you are somewhere in between.

There is a cartoon character who gives me turquoise vibes, and that is Zeno, "The King of Everything," from Dragon Ball Super.

And Osho, in my view is a very good example of turquoise. In this video he demonstrates in a humorous way the value of jokes and not taking ourselves seriously.

 

That's very well written and explained. I think you nailed it. 

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

As for the transformation from Yellow to Turquoise, the key feature is not less time spent on thinking. It's how you think

+1 ❤

[Carl-Richard]

21 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

I think one of the key things defining a new ager is lacking spiritual depth

No.

 

21 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

I hang out in the new age circles but I believe it's mostly to align with healing. I have made some great connections that I'm very grateful for but for the most part I'm a lone wolf. And I'm not interested in the typical dialogue about Astrology or anything else of the new age sort. 

I'm seeking clarity to the purpose of your post. 

And if someone likes to do yoga and meditate I don't see the relevance. What does that have to do with anything? New age is just a label.

If you're into "spirituality" but you don't feel particularly "religious", you're New Age. The problem is that all these words mean something different to academics than most people (and the video we're talking about was made by an academic).

 

21 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

I agree with you that how you think is a large aspect.

It's really the only aspect.

 

21 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

PS: If you could please share with me the link to the video I would appreciate it, I don't see it.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/history-of-the-new-age

Edited September 13 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

18 hours ago, Joshe said:

To me, it seems the cause is a change in values. Endlessly stuffing random knowledge and non-stop contemplation into your psyche seems to be let go at a certain point, in favor of something else. 

Mysticism ("spirituality") brings you outside of the personal mind and into the transpersonal Mind. Spiral Dynamics (SD), as conceived by Don Beck, tracks the structure of the personal mind. There is no stage in SD where you step outside of the personal mind. Mysticism has existed since the dawn of humanity, before or around Stage Purple.

The only pattern you could point to is that mysticism seems to become more prevalent at Stage Green in the West, but this is mostly a cultural artefact, in that mysticism was severely weakened in the West over the last millennia until the New Age re-capitulated it by integrating it from other cultures, e.g. Hinduism, Buddhism, Shamanism.

Edited September 13 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you're into "spirituality" but you don't feel particularly "religious", you're New Age. The problem is that all these words mean something different to academics than most people (and the video we're talking about was made by an academic).

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The only pattern you could point to is that mysticism seems to become more prevalent at Stage Green in the West, but this is mostly a cultural artefact, in that mysticism was severely weakened in the West over the last millennia until the New Age re-capitulated it by integrating it from other cultures, e.g. Hinduism, Buddhism, Shamanism.

It’s not just a cultural artifact.

Is it not clear that the "new-age," as a dialectical moment of modernity's pursuit of universalism, could only have arisen precisely within this context and is then ontogenetically recapitulated when an individual transitions from an "orange" to a "green" stage of development?

The "new-age" is a particular discourse centered around the idea of a universal spiritual core to all human beings.

There have been many examples of people pushing the boundaries of "spirituality" far beyond this discursive formation.

But, of course, your "scientific" frameworks do not capture this reality, as they are incapable of grasping such outlier phenomena, let alone developing an empirically verified language around them.

Edited September 13 by Nilsi

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

It’s not just a cultural artifact.

I said "mostly". But think about this: if Christianity had been obsessed about mysticism and the other religions not, then Stage Green in the West would've probably been associated with a drop in mysticism.

Edited September 13 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Is it not clear that the "new-age," as a dialectical moment of modernity's pursuit of universalism, could only have arisen precisely within this context and is then ontogenetically recapitulated when an individual transitions from an "orange" to a "green" stage of development?

My brain is too small to understand what you mean.

Edited September 13 by Carl-Richard

[Fountainbleu]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

21 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

I think one of the key things defining a new ager is lacking spiritual depth- which I do not.

No.

no what?

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

no what?

New Agers don't lack "spiritual depth". They often lack community, tradition, wisdom, grounding, safety.

Edited September 13 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

My brain is too small to understand what you mean.

You have a second brain right at your disposal.

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

You have a second brain right at your disposal.

Yes, and that second brain is you. Get to work 😝

[Ramanujan]

yellow intellectualism is so amazing . its so owsome

[Fountainbleu]

Do New agers not focus on the intellectual as much? @Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Fountainbleu said:

Do New agers not focus on the intellectual as much? @Carl-Richard

Generally that is neither here nor there, but some subsets of it don't, like Neo Advaita or contemporary non-duality in general (as regularly seen on YouTube): Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Ram Dass, Rupert Spira, Adyashanti, are a few examples.

Edited September 15 by Carl-Richard