Kamala-Trump Debate

[Scholar]

Kamala also referred to someone as a "survivor of incest", contributing to the stigmatization of incestuous relationships and their equating with abuse and rape. Funny how this is a progressive talking point.

I don't even understand how an incest exception in abortions makes sense? The rape exception already would include all "incestuous rape", and other than that I don't see any coherent reason why you would allow exceptions for incest in particular? Because the child might be born with genetic defects?

But then the exception should be "retarded babies", not "incest", given that this kind of exception would also need to apply in those cases.

 

And how exactly do I have to imagine this exception? Do we think 7 month old babies should be murdered because of "rape exceptions", or because the child was a product of incest? 

 

The conversation about abortion in the US is utterly insane.

Edited September 11 by Scholar

[El Zapato]

12 hours ago, integration journey said:

I just wish she didn’t support Israel that much. Israel and Iran indirectly destroyed my home country of Syria 

It is a tough issue for the American government.  But Israel is eroding its reason for being.  It's that right-wing sh*t again.  Those people are likely 50%+ a psychopathic subspecies.  The rest are just stoopid...the rank-and-file that is, The corporatists know quite well which side of the bread is buttered.  

[El Zapato]

12 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Taylor Swift 😳 

She's beauteous, nice, and a fan of my favorite football team.  She has got my vote.

[El Zapato]

12 hours ago, Joshe said:

EXACTLY! I did not expect it to go this well. He looked like a mean old asshole yelling at a calm woman and they were letting him do over and over and over.

The part I saw was when Harris was watching him talk with both a look of shock and sadness at the same time.  That was truly priceless.

[El Zapato]

11 hours ago, ted73104 said:

I'm not a Donald Trump supporter and I hope Kamala Harris will win the election, but I think this is the debate that Donald Trump performed the best by far from any primary debate or presidential debate he did before. Trump did not interrupt Harris from speaking, he was polite, he behaved, he did not call Harris any disgusting nickname (except perhaps border czar). Trump was well trained and he spoke very on point. There were times where maybe he did go off script a bit like persisting his crowds were always the largest and no one left during his rallies, but I think he did very well.

Kamala Harris did not disappoint, for conscious people it is obvious she performed better during the debate. However I think the main point is Trump did not perform badly, and I believe his supporters would think he actually won the debate.

Of course throughout the debate there were lies and question dodging from both side, for example Donald Trump flat out said that when he puts a 20% tariff for all imports, the price would never be paid by the American consumer. When Harris was asked if Trump's tariffs contributed to inflation and then why didn't Biden take out those tariffs, Harris dodged the question entirely. Both candidates were very well prepared and unfortunately I don't think Harris would increase her voter base from this.

I hope independent voters who have yet to decide who to vote for can comment in this thread, would be very interesting to see their opinions.

Hi, I'm undecided...Trump is less than scum, he has given a new low for scumbags everywhere to strive for.  He may be the true GOAT.

[Hatfort]

27 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Kamala also referred to someone as a "survivor of incest", contributing to the stigmatization of incestuous relationships and their equating with abuse and rape. Funny how this is a progressive talking point.

I don't even understand how an incest exception in abortions makes sense? The rape exception already would include all "incestuous rape", and other than that I don't see any coherent reason why you would allow exceptions for incest in particular? Because the child might be born with genetic defects?

But then the exception should be "retarded babies", not "incest", given that this kind of exception would also need to apply in those cases.

 

And how exactly do I have to imagine this exception? Do we think 7 month old babies should be murdered because of "rape exceptions", or because the child was a product of incest? 

 

The conversation about abortion in the US is utterly insane.

Yeah, with your comment we can see how insane the conversation is.

Incestuous rape pregnancies happen, obviously that's what she's referring to, some of you guys need all explained word by word, you can't grasp the context. Consensual incestuous relationships are very rare in all cultures over the world, but that's another discussion anyway.

Detecting a disability or health problem in the fetus is also a reason why some parents opt for this decision, incest or no incest, and they should have the freedom to take it too.

Third-trimester abortions are a tiny minority, they are usually cases of unexpected and sudden health risks for the mother.

[El Zapato]

11 hours ago, ted73104 said:

I hope you're right, but I don't think independent voters really care about what type of person Trump is or his crimes of the past. I think they care more about the direction of the future, and although they probably do care about the character of the president, Donald Trump didn't show his bad moral side in this debate.

What his followers are invested in is the dark side.  They sold their souls, which wasn't even to the highest bidder.

[El Zapato]

1 hour ago, sholomar said:

I'm a moderate. I don't visit here that much because I believe most people's leftist beliefs here are rather disconnected from reality.  Personal development is supposed to be about waking up from the dream, in my opinion. I think the one thing neurotypicals do right is simply live their lives without worrying about politics or taking it too seriously. Of course they love drama and love to judge as much as us neurodivergents who frequent internet forums. Everyone wants to tell everyone else what to do, how to live, this and that. The drama of life.   I mostly believe in individual self determination, no overbearing nanny state governments micromanaging everything excessively.

Without bias here, I have to say Trump did terribly. She baited him. He took it.  If he loses, it's his base's fault for nominating him, and his fault for not stepping back and letting someone else run. He's clearly a narcissist, but they mostly all are in the political space. Most average people trek on in spite of, and not because of, the people in charge in their respective countries. Power attracts those who seek it... our genetic makeup is not yet suited for a stage green+ utopia where we leave our evolutionary drives behind... our species hasn't evolved enough or been subject to genetic engineering.

Regardless, it seems like more and more the republican party is the party of old angry white men shaking their fist at the sky that society is not the way "it used to be" .... if they aren't willing to adapt and grow with the times they will lose their relevancy which would be bad, because one party rule typically doesn't end well. I prefer gridlock.

I look at both these candidates and say to myself "this is the best they could do? Really?"  Chuckle.

Well, there is your problem...Even most moderates should be living in the real world.  While I understand, that those who lean right are prone to fantasy thinking, the left for the vast majority anyway, are handicapped by living in the real world, some even understand it to a considerable degree.

[Scholar]

24 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Yeah, with your comment we can see how insane the conversation is.

Incestuous rape pregnancies happen, obviously that's what she's referring to, some of you guys need all explained word by word, you can't grasp the context. Consensual incestuous relationships are very rare in all cultures over the world, but that's another discussion anyway.

Detecting a disability or health problem in the fetus is also a reason why some parents opt for this decision, incest or no incest, and they should have the freedom to take it too.

Third-trimester abortions are a tiny minority, they are usually cases of unexpected and sudden health risks for the mother.

I know she is referring to incestuous rapes, but they are in no way different in regards to the pregnancy than a normal rape pregnancy. The problem here is that, as a society, we are incestophobic and intentionally conflate consensual incest with non-consensual incest such that we can maintain our discriminatory attitudes towards minorites that we deem as disgusting.

If I live in a homophobic society, and refer to prison rape victims as "Victims of homosexuality", I am participating directly in homophobia and further stigmatization of homosexuality by association it with rape, and by specfically not clarifying that hat is mean is "victims of homosexual rape".

It doesn't need to be clarified in such a society, because that society views the entire act as equivalent to rape, such that anyone who commits homosexuality ought to be treated the same way a rapist would, as we do with consensual incest.

 

How rare incestuous relationships are is irrelevant, they do happen and are far more frequent than you believe. As a democratic society, we cannot use the status of a minority as an excuse to further discriminate against them, on the basis that they are rare. Given a society that stigmatized and criminalizes a certain sexual act, it is obviously to be expected that individuals will avoid engaging in such acts even though they might want to, and keep them secret from society if they do engage in such acts.

You could have made the same argument in the past when homosexuality was highly persecuted, when a disproportionate amount of homosexual behavior was happening in the context of child abuse and grooming, and rape. In that case, you could have pointed to society and proclaimed consensual, healthy homosexual relationships are rare.

 

If you want to have an exception for killing mentally or bodily handicapped people on the basis of inferior genes, then clarify that instead of making it about incest and further stigmatizing children born of incest as well as incestuous relationships by conflating them with rape.

 

Incest is simply in no way relevant to the issue, as that is not actually what should grant something to be exceptional. A pregnancy, especially a healthy one, as can be determined through monitoring the pregnancy, resulting from consensual incest, is in no way different than any other other pregnancy, therefore, why would any kind of exception apply in that case?

It simply makes no sense to use the term incest, other than to use it because everyone deems incest as abhorrent and disgusting in any context, whether consensual or not, whether the child is healthy or not. That is the truth of why she was using the term, because society has dehumanized individuals who engage in incest to such a degree that we view them as abhorrent monsters that need to be shamed and imprisoned for their love.

Edited September 11 by Scholar

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

I don't even understand how an incest exception in abortions makes sense?

It doesn't. 

[aurum]

Looking good for Kamala. Another poll in her favor:

https://thehill.com/homenews/4873826-harris-trump-debate-winner/amp/

[PenguinPablo]

Sorry I forgot to post in this thread last night...

I was too busy eating my neighbors dogs 

 

Edited September 11 by PenguinPablo

[UnbornTao]

5 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

I was too busy eating my neighbors dogs 

Ketchup or plain? 

Edited September 11 by UnbornTao

[Kid A]

3 hours ago, sholomar said:

I'm a moderate. I don't visit here that much because I believe most people's leftist beliefs here are rather disconnected from reality.  Personal development is supposed to be about waking up from the dream, in my opinion. I think the one thing neurotypicals do right is simply live their lives without worrying about politics or taking it too seriously. Of course they love drama and love to judge as much as us neurodivergents who frequent internet forums. Everyone wants to tell everyone else what to do, how to live, this and that. The drama of life.   I mostly believe in individual self determination, no overbearing nanny state governments micromanaging everything excessively.

Because of our «overbearing nanny states», we Scandinavians have much better opportunities to do personal development than you Americans. We are also happier with our lives. Now most of us just sit in disbelief and horror while we observe you guys being brainwashed into selling your souls to Antichrist himself, just to keep your corrupt dysfunctional system going.

[ryandesreu]

15 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Taylor Swift 😳 

The childless cat lady is welcome, and she draws larger crowds than Trump so maybe she won the 2020 election. 🤷‍♂️ 

[questionreality]

Kamala clearly won the debate, she defeated him psychologically. From the very beginning she went up to him, shook his head when he didn't expect him and threw him off guard.

The turning point was when she commented on his crowd sizes and said that people were leaving them early because the rallies are boring. He never really recovered after that - it triggered him very badly.

She won the psychological fight - she used his weaknesses against him (his fragile ego).

You can see how comfortable she looks from her body language, and how she controlled the debate throughout most of the time.

 

[PurpleTree]

gosh either a lawyer/prosecutor

or biff from back to the future as president of the worlds superpower smh

[Joshe]

The only metric I care about is who was "most effective" at changing public opinion in their favor. 

Using this metric, I bet she might be in the running for the best presidential debate of all time. 

 

[BlueOak]

Do you mean for once, people won't just be talking meme's and weird internet conspiracies to rounds of applause?

Have we grown?

This was the most annoying thing from American politics because I had to interact with people whose reality was so far out of synch with mine that it made each conversation an exercise in futility, even on the small day-to-day things.

[ryandesreu]

Harris can't help but laugh when Trump accuses her of stealing his ideas and offers her a MAGA hat, then calling her a Marxist. She laughs again, clearly entertained, looking at him as if he's nothing more than a joke.