Women don’t love you. They love the life style you can provide?

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Tenebroso said:

What if you accept yourself and women still are not attracted to you?

Is there really someone for everyone?

I'm sure there have been women who are attracted to you if you're generally socializing. You just may not have known it because women can be reserved about sharing their feelings out of nervousness that they aren't returned.

But let me assure you... I'm originally from a redneck town, and as a teenager even the creepiest least attractive guy that I knew had girlfriends just because he was socializing with girls.

And let me be clear that most girls were freaked out by this guy because of his tendency to be very touchy feely and sexually inappropriate in a socially inept ways. He was the "Where's my hug at?" kind of guy.

He also genuinely looked like a walrus... white mustache and all. And if I recall correctly, he had a genetic issue where he had webbed toes on one of his feet. But that might have been someone else... as it's been nearly 20 years since I was interacting with him.

But if he can get girlfriends, literally anyone can.

And he's just the most memorable example of a person you might have assumed can't get a girlfriend, getting girlfriends (multiple over the years I knew him).

But being from a redneck town, I can tell you that there were tons of boys/men who were unappealing in a variety of ways (being ugly by societal standards, missing teeth, being crazy, creepy, unintelligent, etc.) who had girlfriends and/or wives.

So, literally anyone can find a partner... many in fact. But you have to put yourself out there and socialize.

So I have to ask... are you interacting with women? Do you have any women in your social circle? Have you tried joking, flirting, and engaging in banter? These are things that are necessary to open up the possibility that something would happen. 

Otherwise, it would be quite uncommon for a woman to initiate on you without any indication that you like her. And women generally won't express those kinds of feelings towards a guy or come onto him unless she's sure that he's attracted to her.

Women generally tend to be a bit more averse to overstepping those bounds and grossing a guy out.

[Tenebroso]

@Emerald I am from London, it's a very competitive city. I have childhood female friends and always went to mixed schools. I have women in my social circle but they are all in long term relationships. I have always socialized with women, I have never really had the classic male interest; sports, cars, video games(I know women can be interested in these things) etc 

I have tried flirting in the past but it was clear that it was unwanted, so I stopped. It doesn't feel good to make someone uncomfortable. I asked another woman out who was a friend of a friend and she agreed to a date but never turned up, so I got stood up for what would have been my first date. I still have never been on an actual date with a woman.

The majority of the time, the women are nice about the rejection but one I think has scarred me. I remember receiving this look of complete repulsion and that killed my confidence for a while.

At university my roommate and close friend was one of those stereotypical chad player types, women were very forward with him. They would basically invite themselves to his room and at one point he was seeing about 7 women at once but it got a bit toxic because one of the girls wanted something more and threatened to commit suicide if he didn't oblige. It was eye opening to say the least, to see how direct and brazen women could be with very attractive men. He's married now, in fact a lot of my friends are and I am still trying to get a date.

I wonder if the messages we receive as children manifest in our life. I got teased a lot at school and I remember a girl saying I would die alone. Lately my mother has begun pressuring me to get a girlfriend and she has said the "you are going to die alone" thing as well. 

[Emerald]

@Tenebroso If you haven't had the types of experiences with women that you want to have, what do you attribute that to?

I can tell you right now with 100% certainty, that it doesn't have to do with your level of physical attractiveness... or even personality attractiveness... or anything core to your nature.

My suspicion is that you are getting too in your head about things and not opening yourself up to having jokey lighthearted fun with women... or in general. And I can tell by what you're written that you're letting your mind get in the way of your ability to engage in a relaxed and open way.

Every relationship I've ever been in has always begun with witty jokey flirty banter that eventually morphs organically into something more. And if you're too worried about making her uncomfortable to be open and playful, you're not leaving space open for something more.

Now, be sure to socially calibrate with this. Don't go 0 to 100. That would make a woman feel uncomfortable.

Instead, just begin by having relaxed platonic conversation and build rapport and throw in a joke here and there. And as more and more rapport is built you can escalate slowly into more flirtatious banter. But the key here isn't to have an agenda and not to overthink it. And just have fun.

And chances are that your room mate is probably a naturally gregarious flirty guy if he's getting lots of female attention.

[gettoefl]

doggystyle for lifestyle, money for honey, the one doing good for the one looking good

fair exchange is no robbery

you give her measurables the trappings the vacations , she gives you the numinous the ineffable the beyond

you define her worth to the world, she defines your worth to the heavens

in either case each can reasonably say, you are my sunshine

win win is the wise way

[BlueOak]

7 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

idk, seems like we're a perfect match after all cause I'm definitely the opposite of serious and planned, but I'm def compatible with that type (not too serious and planned, though but somewhat), to balance me out.

I agree that is who I look for. I used to always believe that as an absolute in all things. Recently, there has been a push in the collective for people to be the same more than complimentary in certain ways.

Example: (2.30) is relevant to opposites.
 

Nuanced:
 

 

Edited September 10 by BlueOak

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

yes, absolutely. Is completely dystopic and sad. 

Women will 100% of times be with a man that doesn´t feel anything to her but is useful to her, than being with a man that is not as useful or does not provide as much, but truly feels great things for her.

How sad that is??? 

Women are more flexible in my experience

Men (for most part, in heterosexual dynamics) are the ones who ask, will you marry me

She has to weigh up the pros and the cons and the likelihood of future suitors

He never thinks of such matters; her marriability is pretty well known on day 1

Edited September 10 by gettoefl

[Leo Gura]

You guys jump to ridiculous generalizations based off a pittance of biased experience.

Your generalizations are hogwash, not reality.

Edited September 10 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

pitance

Cool, I learned a new word. 

[Keryo Koffa]

41 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Cool, I learned a new word. 

Leo is saving our time wasted in these threads by teaching us nuanced words, I love it!

[AION]

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

This isn't really what I meant by what I wrote to you.

It's more the other way around. 

Your problem is only a woman-problem at the symptom level. The real problem is shame. And this is what creates the n1/n2 problem that you mentioned because that is a symptom of the shame.

I know that your problem SEEMS like it's a problem with women and dating. But it really isn't. 

Shame is the beginning and end of the issue, and it manifests likely in many forms... and this woman-problem is just one of them.

So, my advice isn't about alleviating shame for the sake of being more confident with women... as that isn't the root of the problem, just a symptom. And if you try to alleviate shame to be more acceptable to women, you will just double down on and exacerbate the shame.

My advice is rather to seek to resolve the shame because you want what's best for yourself, and as a side-benefit of resolving the shame this will enable you pursue connection, love, sex etc. from a frame that doesn't come from a sense of lack and a need for external validation. 

And the ONLY way you can alleviate shame is by practicing unconditional self-acceptance and compassion.

If you put a condition on loving and accepting yourself, it will create shame in you. And you will go seeking validation from the outside.

And one side-effect of this is that you will be looking to women to validate you so that you can finally love and accept yourself. And of course, this puts all sorts of pressure and stakes into romantic interactions that aren't actually there.

And once you come to accept yourself... you don't need to pretend to be a nice guy or a dick or any other kind of thing to get women to like you. You will just feel comfortable being yourself, and there will be women that are attracted to you as yourself without any calculation about what kind of persona that you need to adopt.

And seeking out some mentor to teach you how to get good with women... or trying to learn to act like a dick isn't going to help you.

To do this would be like trying to cure malaria by taking a a fever reducer. It might bring the fever down, but it won't really resolve the issue.

Thank you. I agree that I have chronic shame. It is also part of a pride culture of my parents. And pride and shame are connected. 
 

But the thing is giving yourself self love is like asking a poor guy to stop being poor. I don’t think people can love themselves in the secular sense. One needs to connect to god or something. And be given he or she can’t himself / herself. 

Shame is self consciousness. It is when Adam and Eve saw themselves being naked after the forbidden fruit which granted them self consciousness . It is the original sin. The price we paid for being self conscious and being our own gods. 

 

[Brittany]

On 9/9/2024 at 6:19 AM, AION said:

It makes me think. Does love really exist? Modern relationships are based on value exchange. You basically have to have what the other person wants which is basically value exchange aka win win relationships. Unconditional love is not a real thing

 

20 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Go marry a 40 year old HIV positive crack addicted homeless woman on the street and accept everything about them and how that impacts your life. Then you can say you love unconditionally.

I understand the pain you are feeling when it comes to romantic relationships.

They are not a good source to find "unconditional love". 

And you are 100% correct that when someone does not like you, they can be very ............... judgmental? and rejecting? and cruel? and cold?

I get it. And I agree with you.

Romantic love isn't about loving what is bad, broken, incompatible, imperfect, or ugly or rejected.

Romantic Love is about loving what is glamorous, desirable, compatible, attractive, and relatable.

No one seeks out the most broken, ugly, beaten down, incompatible, toxic person to marry. 

Lyubov's crack addict with HIV analogy is perfect as an explanation for this.

But love does exist. Unconditional love is absolutely a real thing.

It doesn't exist as an object though. Love is not an object that someone can give to you. Love is not an object that a women gives to you.

Love is something you already have inside of you. 

You always have love inside of you. In every moment.

Love is inside of you, right here and right now.

The reason you can't access the love within you, is because of your inner narrative, your inner chatter, your inner dialogue.....it's blocking the love inside of you.

I recommend spending less time on social media 

And fill your mind with truth. Social media fills your mind with lies.

I agree with the people who recommended reading mindfulness books as a starting place. Go to a park or a lakeside and read books on mindfulness.

And if you really desire a partner, there are many women in the world that may want to form a healthy, loving relationship with you. The best thing to do is get off social media....get off the internet..... and go out more in the real world.  Join meet ups. Go to the gym. Travel. Go out salsa dancing, swing dancing, country line dancing, etc. Go to game nights. Go to sports bars. Volunteer service. Do something you would never usually do. Visit places you would usually never visit. Talk to people you usually wouldn't want to talk to.

But, yeah, you are right about unconditional love and romantic relationships. Unconditional love and romantic relationships don't really mesh well........as many people seek a partner with desirable/compatible traits. This is the foundation of what romantic love is. We seek a desirable/compatible partner. We don't seek to love people for exactly who they are, even if they are undesirable, toxic and incompatible to us. Nope. There is a built in "rejecting" side to romantic love....so I agree with you. You aren't wrong about this. Romantic Love REJECTS people all of the time. Romantic Love is a love that discards and rejects what is unwanted. Not everyone makes the cut or passes the test, where romantic love is concerned. Romantic Love is not unconditional love. We are gaslighting people when we treat romantic love like the love of God...it's not like the love of God. 

So don't seek unconditional love in a romantic partner. This applies for both men and women. Find that within yourself. And then share that love, you already have inside of you, with a partner.

Sometimes a woman may help you to cultivate that love or she may help you access that love. Sure. A partner may help you to access the love that is buried inside of you. They may help us soothe our wounds, shame, and fears. They may speak truth at the lies we tell ourselves. They may help us face our demons.  ........Sure, that can happen and it is wonderful and incredible when that happens....but the love you feel when with a partner is already yours RIGHT NOW....the love is already within you, right now. You don't need a partner to tap into the love that is already within you.

This is counter cultural and society does not teach us this. Society says "wait for others to love you. love is outside of you. love is in a man. love is in a woman. other people will give you love. we will give you love when you do x, y, and z. Obey us and we will love you. Be more of what we like and we will love you. Become confident, get money, get a good job, lose weight, and we will love you. Raise your vibration, become more conscious, become enlightened and we will love you. haha Become attractive and we will love you.".

But you don't need to wait for other people to give you love.

You have a waterfall of love already inside of you, that is being blocked by your inner dialogue and mental narrative.

Edited September 10 by Brittany

[CARDOZZO]

8 hours ago, Tenebroso said:

@Emerald I am from London, it's a very competitive city. I have childhood female friends and always went to mixed schools. I have women in my social circle but they are all in long term relationships. I have always socialized with women, I have never really had the classic male interest; sports, cars, video games(I know women can be interested in these things) etc 

I have tried flirting in the past but it was clear that it was unwanted, so I stopped. It doesn't feel good to make someone uncomfortable. I asked another woman out who was a friend of a friend and she agreed to a date but never turned up, so I got stood up for what would have been my first date. I still have never been on an actual date with a woman.

The majority of the time, the women are nice about the rejection but one I think has scarred me. I remember receiving this look of complete repulsion and that killed my confidence for a while.

At university my roommate and close friend was one of those stereotypical chad player types, women were very forward with him. They would basically invite themselves to his room and at one point he was seeing about 7 women at once but it got a bit toxic because one of the girls wanted something more and threatened to commit suicide if he didn't oblige. It was eye opening to say the least, to see how direct and brazen women could be with very attractive men. He's married now, in fact a lot of my friends are and I am still trying to get a date.

I wonder if the messages we receive as children manifest in our life. I got teased a lot at school and I remember a girl saying I would die alone. Lately my mother has begun pressuring me to get a girlfriend and she has said the "you are going to die alone" thing as well. 

Actually, if you really accept that possibility of dying alone, you will have absolute freedom to experiment and test your skills with women.

If you got girls, cool. If not, you already accepted the possibility of dying alone.

Look, possibility is not a fact.

You have nothing to lose.

Edited September 10 by CARDOZZO

[Brittany]

14 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

Actually, if you really accept that possibility of dying alone, you will have absolute freedom to experiment and test your skills with women.

If you got girls, cool. If not, you already accepted the possibility of dying alone.

Look, possibility is not a fact.

You have nothing to lose.

You have to also remember that you may fall in love with a woman, marry her, have children with her.

And she may die before you die.

She might leave you a widower and a single father.

Or you might die before her, and you might leave her a widow and a single mother.

We don't get to plan the time of our death. 

And we don't get to plan the time when our partner will die.

[Princess Arabia]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys jump to ridiculous generalizations based off a pittance of biased experience.

Your generalizations are hogwash, not reality.

For real!! As if they're the only one's that exist and their experience is all that is. I wonder why. Hmmm Starts with an S. Lol

[Lyubov]

11 hours ago, Tenebroso said:

Is there really someone for everyone?

This is the thing about life though. We can never be 100% sure on anyone or certain about anything. All we can do is focus on ourselves with this regard. I would say it is a very reasonable belief to believe there is someone out there for you if you are aligning with the abundance in the world and you are able to really see the world in a new and different way. Don’t believe everything everyone has told you about scarcity and half of what you see, don’t believe that either. This is where the law of attraction comes in. I’ve found just treating any sort of thinking that largely prioritizes something outside us as fruitless usually. It’s better to ask “what can I do to become more authentic and attractive.” Just even pondering doubts creates more doubt. Be careful.

[Thought Art]

It's probably both

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Brittany said:

 

I understand the pain you are feeling when it comes to romantic relationships.

They are not a good source to find "unconditional love". 

And you are 100% correct that when someone does not like you, they can be very ............... judgmental? and rejecting? and cruel? and cold?

I get it. And I agree with you.

Romantic love isn't about loving what is bad, broken, incompatible, imperfect, or ugly or rejected.

Romantic Love is about loving what is glamorous, desirable, compatible, attractive, and relatable.

No one seeks out the most broken, ugly, beaten down, incompatible, toxic person to marry. 

Lyubov's crack addict with HIV analogy is perfect as an explanation for this.

But love does exist. Unconditional love is absolutely a real thing.

It doesn't exist as an object though. Love is not an object that someone can give to you. Love is not an object that a women gives to you.

Love is something you already have inside of you. 

You always have love inside of you. In every moment.

Love is inside of you, right here and right now.

The reason you can't access the love within you, is because of your inner narrative, your inner chatter, your inner dialogue.....it's blocking the love inside of you.

I recommend spending less time on social media 

And fill your mind with truth. Social media fills your mind with lies.

I agree with the people who recommended reading mindfulness books as a starting place. Go to a park or a lakeside and read books on mindfulness.

And if you really desire a partner, there are many women in the world that may want to form a healthy, loving relationship with you. The best thing to do is get off social media....get off the internet..... and go out more in the real world.  Join meet ups. Go to the gym. Travel. Go out salsa dancing, swing dancing, country line dancing, etc. Go to game nights. Go to sports bars. Volunteer service. Do something you would never usually do. Visit places you would usually never visit. Talk to people you usually wouldn't want to talk to.

But, yeah, you are right about unconditional love and romantic relationships. Unconditional love and romantic relationships don't really mesh well........as many people seek a partner with desirable/compatible traits. This is the foundation of what romantic love is. We seek a desirable/compatible partner. We don't seek to love people for exactly who they are, even if they are undesirable, toxic and incompatible to us. Nope. There is a built in "rejecting" side to romantic love....so I agree with you. You aren't wrong about this. Romantic Love REJECTS people all of the time. Romantic Love is a love that discards and rejects what is unwanted. Not everyone makes the cut or passes the test, where romantic love is concerned. Romantic Love is not unconditional love. We are gaslighting people when we treat romantic love like the love of God...it's not like the love of God. 

So don't seek unconditional love in a romantic partner. This applies for both men and women. Find that within yourself. And then share that love, you already have inside of you, with a partner.

Sometimes a woman may help you to cultivate that love or she may help you access that love. Sure. A partner may help you to access the love that is buried inside of you. They may help us soothe our wounds, shame, and fears. They may speak truth at the lies we tell ourselves. They may help us face our demons.  ........Sure, that can happen and it is wonderful and incredible when that happens....but the love you feel when with a partner is already yours RIGHT NOW....the love is already within you, right now. You don't need a partner to tap into the love that is already within you.

This is counter cultural and society does not teach us this. Society says "wait for others to love you. love is outside of you. love is in a man. love is in a woman. other people will give you love. we will give you love when you do x, y, and z. Obey us and we will love you. Be more of what we like and we will love you. Become confident, get money, get a good job, lose weight, and we will love you. Raise your vibration, become more conscious, become enlightened and we will love you. haha Become attractive and we will love you.".

But you don't need to wait for other people to give you love.

You have a waterfall of love already inside of you, that is being blocked by your inner dialogue and mental narrative.

Great post and I agree with everything you wrote here. I’m currently really quieting and resolving any issues with my belief system which blocks this inner love and acceptance within me.

[cjoseph90]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys jump to ridiculous generalizations based off a pittance of biased experience.

Your generalizations are hogwash, not reality.

Yes. This! It is sad, they are experiencing only a limited part of reality. Yes ok i am biased saying this but, I doubt that the OP has met all the women out there and its sad how the human mind generalises vased on its past, and usually false information.

[cjoseph90]

4 hours ago, Brittany said:

 

I understand the pain you are feeling when it comes to romantic relationships.

They are not a good source to find "unconditional love". 

And you are 100% correct that when someone does not like you, they can be very ............... judgmental? and rejecting? and cruel? and cold?

I get it. And I agree with you.

Romantic love isn't about loving what is bad, broken, incompatible, imperfect, or ugly or rejected.

Romantic Love is about loving what is glamorous, desirable, compatible, attractive, and relatable.

No one seeks out the most broken, ugly, beaten down, incompatible, toxic person to marry. 

Lyubov's crack addict with HIV analogy is perfect as an explanation for this.

But love does exist. Unconditional love is absolutely a real thing.

It doesn't exist as an object though. Love is not an object that someone can give to you. Love is not an object that a women gives to you.

Love is something you already have inside of you. 

You always have love inside of you. In every moment.

Love is inside of you, right here and right now.

The reason you can't access the love within you, is because of your inner narrative, your inner chatter, your inner dialogue.....it's blocking the love inside of you.

I recommend spending less time on social media 

And fill your mind with truth. Social media fills your mind with lies.

I agree with the people who recommended reading mindfulness books as a starting place. Go to a park or a lakeside and read books on mindfulness.

And if you really desire a partner, there are many women in the world that may want to form a healthy, loving relationship with you. The best thing to do is get off social media....get off the internet..... and go out more in the real world.  Join meet ups. Go to the gym. Travel. Go out salsa dancing, swing dancing, country line dancing, etc. Go to game nights. Go to sports bars. Volunteer service. Do something you would never usually do. Visit places you would usually never visit. Talk to people you usually wouldn't want to talk to.

But, yeah, you are right about unconditional love and romantic relationships. Unconditional love and romantic relationships don't really mesh well........as many people seek a partner with desirable/compatible traits. This is the foundation of what romantic love is. We seek a desirable/compatible partner. We don't seek to love people for exactly who they are, even if they are undesirable, toxic and incompatible to us. Nope. There is a built in "rejecting" side to romantic love....so I agree with you. You aren't wrong about this. Romantic Love REJECTS people all of the time. Romantic Love is a love that discards and rejects what is unwanted. Not everyone makes the cut or passes the test, where romantic love is concerned. Romantic Love is not unconditional love. We are gaslighting people when we treat romantic love like the love of God...it's not like the love of God. 

So don't seek unconditional love in a romantic partner. This applies for both men and women. Find that within yourself. And then share that love, you already have inside of you, with a partner.

Sometimes a woman may help you to cultivate that love or she may help you access that love. Sure. A partner may help you to access the love that is buried inside of you. They may help us soothe our wounds, shame, and fears. They may speak truth at the lies we tell ourselves. They may help us face our demons.  ........Sure, that can happen and it is wonderful and incredible when that happens....but the love you feel when with a partner is already yours RIGHT NOW....the love is already within you, right now. You don't need a partner to tap into the love that is already within you.

This is counter cultural and society does not teach us this. Society says "wait for others to love you. love is outside of you. love is in a man. love is in a woman. other people will give you love. we will give you love when you do x, y, and z. Obey us and we will love you. Be more of what we like and we will love you. Become confident, get money, get a good job, lose weight, and we will love you. Raise your vibration, become more conscious, become enlightened and we will love you. haha Become attractive and we will love you.".

But you don't need to wait for other people to give you love.

You have a waterfall of love already inside of you, that is being blocked by your inner dialogue and mental narrative.

Well written, and yes very true.

[Javfly33]

16 hours ago, BlueOak said:

The lifestyle you provide is part of you. If they love the lifestyle you provide, they are loving that part of you. If that's all they love, it's a shallow relationship with not much relating going on.

Some people are shallow, or some people will never relate to you much, so don't get involved intimately with them.

For money a fairly simple rule I have would be to ask the girl to pay half on the first date, I understand this puts more traditionally-minded women off but for me, it is a good filter. You can pay for the next 100 dates if she takes that first half/half.

Also if she loves simple things that show you care or thought about her, that's a good sign. You can gauge these two very early on.

What the fuck Bro? Are you even a man? What is this BULLSHIT of 50% 50%?

A man provides. Thats what he does. You pay ALWAYS. 

Then we will want women to be femenine and caring but at the same time we are not being a fucking man and providing. Men sometime are crazy hypocritical too