Women don’t love you. They love the life style you can provide?

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, AION said:

I talked about what you told me with a female friend (she is helping me with this stuff). And from my experience women don’t ruminate on male shame. And she is not interested on ruminating on this topic. 

From the female perspective she just want a confident guy. You might call it “a guy who is not ashamed of himself”. But most females aren’t involved in that. They don’t want to know how to sausage is made. They just want the sausage: the sausage is women wanting a confident guy who is not self doubting or being ashamed. 
 

I know I shouldn’t discuss these topics with women but I just got dumb struck that the regular women don’t care about male problems. Feminine nature is very ruthless when it comes down to natural selection. 

Also when talking to female friends I hear that females can be ruthless towards each other while I literally never had any hostility with any men. Actually last week I had hostility with two guys but it got resolved very quickly when they found out I was not stepping back. 

Needless to say is that I need to let go of the hope of a girl fixing me or giving me the love I haven’t received. It is a bitter pill to swallow. Shame is basically telling to your self “these parts shouldn’t be there” and the opposite of shame is telling your things that they should be there or it is acceptable that they are there. And accepting that as a basic premise going forward in life and in relationship building. 

For me shame manifests in putting other people on n1 and myself on n2. In my family I always had to do this. So now I need to let go of the shame of “asserting” myself into the world.(( I remember being ashamed of having a dick because I was beaten one time for playing with my dick when I was only few years old. Kind of strange of me remembering that: this is my oldest memory of shame)) And being ok with being denied while anchoring the frame of mind that it is ok to place myself in n1 and that it is nothing to be ashamed of that.

I’m a chronic nice guy. So if I had to write my own prescription I would put it like this in archetypical language: be less of a pussy, and be more like a dick. 

This isn't really what I meant by what I wrote to you.

It's more the other way around. 

Your problem is only a woman-problem at the symptom level. The real problem is shame. And this is what creates the n1/n2 problem that you mentioned because that is a symptom of the shame.

I know that your problem SEEMS like it's a problem with women and dating. But it really isn't. 

Shame is the beginning and end of the issue, and it manifests likely in many forms... and this woman-problem is just one of them.

So, my advice isn't about alleviating shame for the sake of being more confident with women... as that isn't the root of the problem, just a symptom. And if you try to alleviate shame to be more acceptable to women, you will just double down on and exacerbate the shame.

My advice is rather to seek to resolve the shame because you want what's best for yourself, and as a side-benefit of resolving the shame this will enable you pursue connection, love, sex etc. from a frame that doesn't come from a sense of lack and a need for external validation. 

And the ONLY way you can alleviate shame is by practicing unconditional self-acceptance and compassion.

If you put a condition on loving and accepting yourself, it will create shame in you. And you will go seeking validation from the outside.

And one side-effect of this is that you will be looking to women to validate you so that you can finally love and accept yourself. And of course, this puts all sorts of pressure and stakes into romantic interactions that aren't actually there.

And once you come to accept yourself... you don't need to pretend to be a nice guy or a dick or any other kind of thing to get women to like you. You will just feel comfortable being yourself, and there will be women that are attracted to you as yourself without any calculation about what kind of persona that you need to adopt.

And seeking out some mentor to teach you how to get good with women... or trying to learn to act like a dick isn't going to help you.

To do this would be like trying to cure malaria by taking a a fever reducer. It might bring the fever down, but it won't really resolve the issue.

Edited September 9 by Emerald

[Princess Arabia]

11 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Shame is the beginning and end of the issue, and it manifests likely in many forms... and this woman-problem is just one of them.

So, my advice isn't about alleviating shame for the sake of being more confident with women... as that isn't the root of the problem, just a symptom. And if you try to alleviate shame to be more acceptable to women, you will just double down on and exacerbate the shame.

I remember once a few months back you started a thread about the male/female dynamic and the problems they face. I remember you saying something about shame being at the core of some of these relationship issues and you went on to explain it in detail. 

His response to you shows how what you wrote was on point and how shame can be such a deal-breaker if one is going through this emotion and how it can negatively impact us if not dealt with at the core. If you can find that thread,(no big deal if you can't) it would be nice to share it here for reference. 

Edited September 9 by Princess Arabia

[Keryo Koffa]

The "useful" (entitled) ones never stop yappin' and complaining, I'd rather take the brute

[BlueOak]

The lifestyle you provide is part of you. If they love the lifestyle you provide, they are loving that part of you. If that's all they love, it's a shallow relationship with not much relating going on.

Some people are shallow, or some people will never relate to you much, so don't get involved intimately with them.

For money a fairly simple rule I have would be to ask the girl to pay half on the first date, I understand this puts more traditionally-minded women off but for me, it is a good filter. You can pay for the next 100 dates if she takes that first half/half.

Also if she loves simple things that show you care or thought about her, that's a good sign. You can gauge these two very early on.

Edited September 9 by BlueOak

[Princess Arabia]

25 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

For money a fairly simple rule I have would be to ask the girl to pay half on the first date, I understand this puts more traditionally-minded women off but for me, it is a good filter. You can pay for the next 100 dates if she takes that first half/half.

If a man asks me out and asks me to pay half or my share, I'll pay it all and say it was nice knowing you. I don't need to be scrutinized on whether I'm willing to pay for my half of the date when he asked me out. I don't ask men out on dates; so if I'm on one, it's because I was asked. If a woman asks a man out in a date, she should pay yes, but it still shows the trajectory of the relationship if he allows her to, whether it turns out to be serious or not. Let her reach for the bill, if that's what happens but interrupt and say you got this.

If a man is only concerned that she's willing to foot half the bill on the first date, and sees her as a good match because of that or even one that won't use him or whatever his concerns are about financial issues, it's not worth my time. He's the one making it an issue not her by doing that.

I don't care about the other 100 dates that he may pay, I just don't want to be tested in this manner, test me to see if I reach out to open your side of the car door or not while I'm already seated;  that test, if testing at all, is a better indicator of a good woman, imo, or if she ever embarrasses you in public.

Edited September 9 by Princess Arabia

[BlueOak]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

If a man asks me out and asks me to pay half or my share, I'll pay it all and say it was nice knowing you. I don't need to be scrutinized on whether I'm willing to pay for my half of the date when he asked me out. I don't ask men out on dates; so if I'm on one, it's because I was asked. If a woman asks a man out in a date, she should pay yes, but it still shows the trajectory of the relationship, whether it turns out to be serious or not. 

If a man is only concerned that she's willing to foot half the bill on the first date, and sees her as a good match because of that or even one that won't use him or whatever his concerns are about financial issues, it's not worth my time. He's the one making it an issue not her by doing that.

That's fine we wouldn't be compatible.

The first date for me is a getting-to-know-you date, which is going on from both parties. Part of that is how is she regarding money and expectations. The very fact she'd make it a big deal, for example, would tell me a lot about how I'd relate to her. I am making money more important in my life and have been for some time, and is one of a hundred things I would unconsciously and consciously respond to on that date.

Women will be scrutinizing plenty about me on that first date, and I will be with them also.

However, the topic of the thread is what it is. Had it been what are the top three things I look for, we'd be having a different conversation.

[Princess Arabia]

9 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

The first date for me is a getting-to-know-you date, which is going on from both parties. Part of that is how is she regarding money and expectations.

It's even worse if this is a concern on a first date. Is this a marriage screening, a life-long partner situation. Things happen afterwards, and anything can happen in the long run but if this is a concern for a first date that did not start out as a screening for marriage or long-term live in relationship, it's even worse. But I'm just sharing my perspective and we don't have to keep this up, I saw your comment and just wanted to respond with my perspective. To each is own. Why would a date be concerned how someone is regarding money on the first date. Beats me. Says more about them than the other person regardless of which gender is concerned.

 

Edited September 10 by Princess Arabia

[BlueOak]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's even worse if this is a concern on a first date. Is this a marriage screening, a life-long partner situation. Things happen afterwards, and anything can happen in the long run but if this is a concern for a first date that did not start out as a screening for marriage or long-term live in relationship, it's even worse. But I'm just sharing my perspective and we don't have to keep this up, I saw your comment and just wanted to respond with my perspective. To each is own.

 

Yeah, we have a chasm of difference in how we look at it, and that's fine. I understand your judgments better because I now understand how you view first dates.

I don't mess women around, I am authentic all the time. If I date them I date them. I am not looking to get laid and leave. But they'd know that because I say something similar to them before they'd even met me in person. I don't attract partners who are not serious, and I don't attract people who don't know what they want or who they are: Meaning they have no problem telling me.

 

Edited September 10 by BlueOak

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Yeah, we have a chasm of difference in how we look at it, and that's fine. I understand your judgments better because I now understand how you view first dates.

I don't mess women around, I am authentic all the time. If I date them I date them. I am not looking to get laid and leave. But they'd know that because I say something similar to them before they'd even met me in person. I don't attract partners who are not serious, and I don't attract people who don't know what they want or who they are.

 

Regardless, irrelevant still; it's a first date we're discussing here, should be fun and spontaneous. Anyway, people are different, not for me. I want him to look at other things, things like, does she have roaming eyes, does she interrupt me often when i'm speaking, is she kind to the service people, does she ask me questions about me and not just talk about herself...these kinds of things, not is she willing to foot half the bill. A gold digger can still foot half the bill and still take a man on a ride later, proves nothing.

Edited September 10 by Princess Arabia

[BlueOak]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

Regardless, irrelevant still; it's a first date we're discussing here, should be fun and spontaneous. Anyway, people are different, not for me. I want him to look at other things, things like, does she have roaming eyes, does she interrupt me often when i'm speaking, is she kind to the service people, does she ask me questions about me and not just talk about herself...these kinds of things, not is she willing to foot half the bill. A gold digger can still foot half the bill and still take a man on a ride later, proves nothing.

I don't do fun and spontaneous. Not that kind of person. I am serious and planned. I loathe the term 'game' for example.

Of course, I look at all those things, for me, that goes without saying. 

Shy smile, touch of the face, and kindness towards others draws my eyes. Are we relating in how we view the world, and are we connecting, does she have depth, creativity, and a playfulness I find initially interesting? That's the next level, and after that it's integrity: Is she honest, loyal to her friends and family? If I've got that far, it's going very well. Then, because I'm a man I'm looking at her beauty again, while the other half of my mind is trying to formulate something interesting that connects with what we've shared.

You can say it proves nothing, but you can say that about anything. It's a first date. How she reacts will prove how she relates to me at this point, that's all I've got to work with.

 

[Princess Arabia]

59 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

You can say it proves nothing,

No, what you're saying now is different. I was referring to the paying half part, that it proves nothing. Serious and planned is fine if that's who you are; probably need a female whose opposite to that though, both of you serious and planned....hmmmm, idk, seems like we're a perfect match after all cause I'm definitely the opposite of serious and planned, but I'm def compatible with that type (not too serious and planned, though but somewhat), to balance me out.

[Tenebroso]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

 

And once you come to accept yourself... you don't need to pretend to be a nice guy or a dick or any other kind of thing to get women to like you. You will just feel comfortable being yourself, and there will be women that are attracted to you as yourself without any calculation about what kind of persona that you need to adopt.

What if you accept yourself and women still are not attracted to you?

Is there really someone for everyone?

[Ajax]

You know what.. yeah, you are both right in your viewpoint (about the bill debate)… on one side getting dates from guys is often a hustle with some women. On the other side, don’t be petty and do these silly tests.. it’s confirmation bias…

If it’s a big deal, just do a cheaper date… if the girl/guy is not into that… screw them.

As for me, I am Italian… old school, not paying is a sign of weakness… I will pay… I don’t care, I am confident in my ability to generate money… it’s a matter of pride. I’m not a bum. I take the viewpoint of the boss in my life... dropping a few hundred… fuck it, it’s no problem.

You wanna be scared like a rat? Some kitty gonna take a little of your cheese and you gonna be broke?  Oh boohoo, what some more cheese with that whine? Well damn, get off that milk bottle and grow TF up.

Produce more, be results oriented… be more Abundant, don’t be scared of shortage.

When you play a video game, you don’t care if you lose… you may throw a temper tantrum, but you can easily reset and do it again… no problem… is especially if you like what you do. So you feed some lady bum, so what, forget about it (you did your charitable deed for the day, you're a saint)… reset and try again. Call it what you want, it’s a game. And you win by being able to win and loss with a good attitude, enthusiasm and joy of the game.

Yeah a relationship is an exchange… you just have to have the right viewpoints… it makes all the difference in the world. You have the viewpoint of some sort of vision of what you want to create in a relationship… the viewpoint, of looking for ways to help the partner with what you have, and for ways for her to help you… Help is the medium of exchange and both of your willingness to help each other should be the measuring tool of the condition of the relationship.  Help is not for free, sure you should give freely, and expect and receive freely as well… but one must be aware of the many and infinite forms of help…including, communication, companionship, affection, a smile, a hug… whatever.. (don’t be a shite and invalidate these)

You bring light into a relationship in finding the good and bringing out the good, which reduces the effects of the bad. Machines you find what is wrong with them and fix that, People you find what’s good about them and nurture that.

 

Bonus viewpoint- anything physical is dual. So you must recognize the cost of doing something and the cost of not doing something. You can’t have one without the other… one way or another you pay the piper… the best way to solve a problem is to increase the size of the problem, therefore lesser problems lose their power over you.

And remember, any time you can't laugh you are off the track... 

Income (anything good that comes your way), favors the unserious, lighthearted and carefree... because that is survival... reaching for pleasure and withdrawing from pain... how serious can you be? Dead Serious... The more serious you are, the more dead in the water you are... a log floating on the water is pretty dead... so is a turd lol don't be a turd, drop that turd in the water and have fun!

LOVE 

 

Edited September 10 by Ajax

[Ajax]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

This has started to be my new catch phrase lately, (in my personal life). People look at me like, wtf are you talking about. I'd be like, "that shit came outta nowhere". They be like, Ah, ah, nope, it came from my ass putting it there, or somebody else". I'd be like, "Well, where was it before that", they can't answer or come up with stuff like, somebody else had it or it was in the bank or some logic like that. I just leave it alone at that point cause then they're going to have to explain it backwards to Infinity. Hehe

 

 

 

 

LMAO, very, very, very well done... The story of infinite stories... the dog with a head on both ends, looking for its tail... If I will spin just... a little more... I will find my damn tail! Lol, it's so fun to play around!

Edited September 10 by Ajax

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Ajax said:

You know what.. yeah, you are both right in your viewpoint (about the bill debate)… on one side getting dates from guys is often a hustle with some women. On the other side, don’t be petty and do these silly tests.. it’s confirmation bias…

If it’s a big deal, just do a cheaper date… if the girl/guy is not into that… screw them.

As for me, I am Italian… old school, not paying is a sign of weakness… I will pay… I don’t care, I am confident in my ability to generate money… it’s a matter of pride. I’m not a bum. I take the viewpoint of the boss in my life... dropping a few hundred… fuck it, it’s no problem.

You wanna be scared like a rat? Some kitty gonna take a little of your cheese and you gonna be broke?  Oh boohoo, what some more cheese with that whine? Well damn, get off that milk bottle and grow TF up.

Produce more, be results oriented… be more Abundant, don’t be scared of shortage.

When you play a video game, you don’t care if you lose… you may throw a temper tantrum, but you can easily reset and do it again… no problem… is especially if you like what you do. So you feed some lady bum, so what, forget about it (you did your charitable deed for the day, you're a saint)… reset and try again. Call it what you want, it’s a game. And you win by being able to win and loss with a good attitude, enthusiasm and joy of the game.

Yeah a relationship is an exchange… you just have to have the right viewpoints… it makes all the difference in the world. You have the viewpoint of some sort of vision of what you want to create in a relationship… the viewpoint, of looking for ways to help the partner with what you have, and for ways for her to help you… Help is the medium of exchange and both of your willingness to help each other should be the measuring tool of the condition of the relationship.  Help is not for free, sure you should give freely, and expect and receive freely as well… but one must be aware of the many and infinite forms of help…including, communication, companionship, affection, a smile, a hug… whatever.. (don’t be a shite and invalidate these)

You bring light into a relationship in finding the good and bringing out the good, which reduces the effects of the bad. Machines you find what is wrong with them and fix that, People you find what’s good about them and nurture that.

 

Bonus viewpoint- anything physical is dual. So you must recognize the cost of doing something and the cost of not doing something. You can’t have one without the other… one way you pay the piper… the best way to solve a problem is to increase the size of the problem, therefore lesser problems lose their power over you.

And remember, any time you can't laugh you are off the track... 

Income (anything good that comes your way), favors the unserious, lighthearted and carefree... because that is survival... reaching for pleasure and withdrawing from pain... how serious can you be? Dead Serious... The more serious you are, the more dead in the water you are... a log floating on the water is pretty dead... so is a turd lol don't be a turd, drop that turd in the water and have fun!

LOVE 

 

7 minutes ago, Ajax said:

 

 

Fear, that's all it is. Operating from scarcity, lack and fear. That's what it symbolizes to me and that's why those signals in the beginning tells a lot, so I'll pay for both and jet without an argument. Tells a lot right from the beginning. How you do one thing is how you do everything.

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Ajax said:

LMAO, very, very, very well done... The story of infinite stories... the dog with a head on both ends, looking for its tail... If I will spin just... a little more... I will find my damn tail! Lol, it's so fun to play around!

Isn't it. Time for everything. I can't be serious all the time, I'd get depressed. Lol

[Princess Arabia]

34 minutes ago, Tenebroso said:

Is there really someone for everyone?

It's what you believe that matters. There are no definites in the Universe we create them. You create the someone for you by bringing it forth first in the mind; and how you do that is to become that person that doesn't care if there's someone for everyone and operate from a place where that someone is already there because they literally are, waiting for you to draw that experience to you by aligning your frequency to one that attracts relationships but you can't do that with doubt and insecurities which are at the core and are the basis of your question. Asking that question shows doubt and doubt is the opposite of surety which is what aligns you to your desires. Doubt repels it.

[Ajax]

32 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Fear, that's all it is. Operating from scarcity, lack and fear. That's what it symbolizes to me and that's why those signals in the beginning tells a lot, so I'll pay for both and jet without an argument. Tells a lot right from the beginning. How you do one thing is how you do everything.

 You are right of course with your viewpoint. I can agree that it is a sign of weakness and a potential red flag.I am one of those that do pay, after all.  Chilli, from TLC perhaps said it best, from the song, "No scrub" when she said... "Can't get wit' a deadbeat ass". I get it, I do.  You definitely got some Jersey in you.  lol 

 

I would invite you to consider that it is hard to find a diamond, or a beautiful amethyst on the street. A diamond has to be mined, found, cleaned, polished, cut and formed into something amazing a beautiful... you have to see the potential and then see if you can do something with it.  Many men have suffered years of trauma, pain and torment, and betrayal... they are in poor condition. A diamond in the rough, buried in the mine.. in the muck and mud and mold... but there could be something there? I have found it quite profitable to look where those dare not peek. 

You find what you are looking for. What if there is more than you immediately see? 

An open mind is the seed of understanding. 

Edited September 10 by Ajax

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Tenebroso said:

What if you accept yourself and women still are not attracted to you?

Is there really someone for everyone?

I'm sure there have been women who are attracted to you if you're generally socializing. You just may not have known it because women can be reserved about sharing their feelings out of nervousness that they aren't returned.

But let me assure you... I'm originally from a redneck town, and as a teenager even the creepiest least attractive guy that I knew had girlfriends just because he was socializing with girls.

And let me be clear that most girls were freaked out by this guy because of his tendency to be very touchy feely and sexually inappropriate in a socially inept ways. He was the "Where's my hug at?" kind of guy.

He also genuinely looked like a walrus... white mustache and all. And if I recall correctly, he had a genetic issue where he had webbed toes on one of his feet. But that might have been someone else... as it's been nearly 20 years since I was interacting with him.

But if he can get girlfriends, literally anyone can.

And he's just the most memorable example of a person you might have assumed can't get a girlfriend, getting girlfriends (multiple over the years I knew him).

But being from a redneck town, I can tell you that there were tons of boys/men who were unappealing in a variety of ways (being ugly by societal standards, missing teeth, being crazy, creepy, unintelligent, etc.) who had girlfriends and/or wives.

So, literally anyone can find a partner... many in fact. But you have to put yourself out there and socialize.

So I have to ask... are you interacting with women? Do you have any women in your social circle? Have you tried joking, flirting, and engaging in banter? These are things that are necessary to open up the possibility that something would happen. 

Otherwise, it would be quite uncommon for a woman to initiate on you without any indication that you like her. And women generally won't express those kinds of feelings towards a guy or come onto him unless she's sure that he's attracted to her.

Women generally tend to be a bit more averse to overstepping those bounds and grossing a guy out.

[Tenebroso]

@Emerald I am from London, it's a very competitive city. I have childhood female friends and always went to mixed schools. I have women in my social circle but they are all in long term relationships. I have always socialized with women, I have never really had the classic male interest; sports, cars, video games(I know women can be interested in these things) etc 

I have tried flirting in the past but it was clear that it was unwanted, so I stopped. It doesn't feel good to make someone uncomfortable. I asked another woman out who was a friend of a friend and she agreed to a date but never turned up, so I got stood up for what would have been my first date. I still have never been on an actual date with a woman.

The majority of the time, the women are nice about the rejection but one I think has scarred me. I remember receiving this look of complete repulsion and that killed my confidence for a while.

At university my roommate and close friend was one of those stereotypical chad player types, women were very forward with him. They would basically invite themselves to his room and at one point he was seeing about 7 women at once but it got a bit toxic because one of the girls wanted something more and threatened to commit suicide if he didn't oblige. It was eye opening to say the least, to see how direct and brazen women could be with very attractive men. He's married now, in fact a lot of my friends are and I am still trying to get a date.

I wonder if the messages we receive as children manifest in our life. I got teased a lot at school and I remember a girl saying I would die alone. Lately my mother has begun pressuring me to get a girlfriend and she has said the "you are going to die alone" thing as well.