Women don’t love you. They love the life style you can provide?

[AION]

7 minutes ago, WillCameron said:

I think the mistake that people often make when discovering tragedy is that they start thinking everything is "really" tragic. One of the ways that the neuropsychologist Iain McGilchrist has talked about the left brain hemisphere's dominance in our culture is in the left hemispheres need for perfection. So for example, the Platonic Forms are envisioning some metaphysically "more real than our reality" realm in which the perfect form of everything we see exist. All chairs we see are the baser instantiations of the perfect Platonic form of "chair". 

How this manifests in our culture can often be seen in terms of morality. People realize that perfect altruism can't exist because even in the case of self-sacrifice you do it because you believe it is a good thing to do, and so you feel good knowing you sacrificed yourself for a worthy cause. This realization makes them nihilistic because they think that at base everyone is selfish. 

The issue here is that we've become so hooked on the "perfect" altruism, that anything less is interpreted as being the worst opposite. We're either perfectly altruistic or we're all the basest form of selfish, which makes sense because it is the mirror image of perfect. It's like the anti-Platonic form or anti-perfection. 

The truth is that this perfection that the left hemisphere is focused on cannot exist and so comparing ourselves to an impossible perfection we can never reach is foolish. The reality is that true altruism cannot exist, but that doesn't take away from the very real ways in which people asymptotically approach altruism. If someone does something good for you they didn't just do it because they were selfish, but because they actually wanted to help you, even if they also benefitted from that.

While selfishness is one motivator, reducing all of our motivators to mere selfishness is to deny the complex reality of all the various reasons we do things. Again, it is the left hemisphere that breaks the world down into parts and hyper-fixates on the one that it believes matters most. It is the right hemisphere that is able to hold reality at complexity, and see that just because one motivator is selfishness, doesn't mean there aren't other motivators that matter just as much and sometimes even more. We have to take in the gestalt, the whole, if we want to understand human motivation.

So applying that to the question you have, yes women obviously have standards, but so do you. Are there women whose physical appearance would have you reject them no matter how good of a person they were? Does that mean you love the beautiful woman you marry any less? Our standards create the conditions by which we can create a good, satisfying relationship and it is within that context that "true love" can flower. However much there were standards that needed to be set, that love is no less real because what you consider "real true love" is a perfection that cannot exist. Why create resentful, bitter ideologies around non-existent realities?

Good post. One of my pitfalls is black and white thinking so this post enlightened me. 

[max duewel]

4 minutes ago, AION said:

A guy can actually marry a McDonald chick for who she is. 
 

A women can’t do that. 
 

We aren’t build the same. 
 

That is not judging. I kind of understand. 

This is so disgusting. Stop writing and spreading these toxic ideas and go out there. There are plenty of great girls and as soon as you meet them all this shit flys out of the window

[Sugarcoat]

This applies to ~some~ women. Just get good at discerning who when you meet a woman.  Improve yourself so you attract good women 

Edited September 9 by Sugarcoat

[AION]

2 minutes ago, WillCameron said:

I'd like to hear your response to my own. 

I’m very left brain by nature. I guess I need to learn to activate my right brain which is holistic understanding and less black/white. 

 

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Nobody degraded you. Oh the hyperbole. You call us degenerate by making such threads. 

I’m fine if you don’t want to marry a McDonald’s guy. But I think it should be allowed on this forum for the truth to be spoken so guys can up their game and not be mislead. 

[Buck Edwards]

6 minutes ago, AION said:

I’m fine if you don’t want to marry a McDonald’s guy. But I think it should be allowed on this forum for the truth to be spoken so guys can up their game and not be mislead. 

I've seen girls marry broke men. I myself dated broke guys. 

Edited September 9 by Buck Edwards

[Emerald]

You're afraid that women aren't capable of loving you and meeting your love and connection needs... and that you will have to go without that need.

And you also may be projecting a condition onto your own sense of validity and lovability that "In order for me to be valid as a man, a woman (or women in general) has to love me."

So, this creates fear and pressure and desperation because you want and need love and connection.

And that desperation is what manosphere coaches and content creators are arousing in you (sometimes consciously and sometimes just a result of them being caught in the same shame spiral).

And that's because with that pain, you'll want to buy the solution and you will get in a cycle of searching out more and more manosphere information and more and more manosphere solutions.

And their proposed solution is of course... more manosphere!

That's why you should NEVER ask a woman to help you with these things... because then you won't pay money to get a manosphere coach to help you.

So, it becomes the place that supplies the pain and the cure... and the cure is more of the pain... so you need more of the cure... which is more pain.

And it creates a really pain-filled target audience of men to wring money out of.... and to sell increasing pills to to brainwash them into deeper degrees of desperation. And to ensure that women will get scared off by them because women can smell these ideologies from a mile away.

But rest assured, that manosphere frameworks isn't reflective of the actual reality. It just takes the worst examples and then says, "This is an unchangeable part of female nature."

And it creates even more desperation... which is then solved by.... more manosphere.

So, the solution is to get out of the manosphere loop and forget 99% of what you 'learned'. And open up and be vulnerable... and if you are discerning, you can find a relationship that's based upon mutual love and respect.

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

« You » doesn’t exists.

 

Why you being all non dual here lmao 

[AION]

@Emerald that is true.  Lately I have been acting “normal” (less seeking and less over compensation) instead of seeking (trying to get validation and build self esteem) and girls treat me much better. 

It is in inside out approach instead of outside in. It is just very hard to let go of this compulsion. It is really sad actually: I would just run around town or nightclubs to find validation. But that is just a lot of men. Not just me. 

What would help me the most is find guys who already arrived where I want to arrive so I can soak up their mindset and being.  Otherwise I become e pray for manosphere guys who are praying on me. 
 

8 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

“Women can only love men with money and high social status”, this is judgmental.

Is this really how you view women?

Damn. If this is what some men automatically think about every woman they encounter just because they happen to be women, then I pray to God to make me invisible to them.

 

Obviously not all women but women told me this in my face: I need a guy who could provide for me and my child. And my ex literally told me “if I had a baby could you provide for me and my child”? And she already knew the answer. 
 

Obviously finances play a role but obviously it is not everything. Perhaps I should be more clear next time. 
 

 

Edited September 9 by AION

[WillCameron]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But rest assured, that manosphere frameworks isn't reflective of the actual reality. It just takes the worst examples and then says, "This is an unchangeable part of female nature."

 

 

Great response, Marshall Rosenberg would be proud. To add to this point, I just released an article that goes into the psychology of the succubus and how it has defined a lot of how we think about sex. Myths are the stories cultures use to explain their reality and orient them through that reality, and even when that mythic language is gone the way they shaped our cognition remains. The manosphere is in many ways a response to the history of the Goddess being murdered by a male hero God, how that is reflected in agricultural societies becoming increasingly dominated by elite males, and the fertility Goddess being recast as a sexual demon. When viewing women through the lens of the succubus much of the manosphere's advice makes sense. For those interested you can read it here - https://metamasculine.substack.com/p/psychology-of-the-succubus

[WillCameron]

1 minute ago, AION said:

@Emerald What would help me the most is find guys who already arrived where I want to arrive
 

 

You can't take everything any dating guru tells you as true, but someone like Todd V can help you get a better skillset at meeting women. Remember that cold approach advice is for the section of dating including "meeting and sleeping with" not "in a relationship with". That confuses a lot of guys. Once you have that skillset to a good enough degree it will not only help you meet a woman who aligns with your values, but also help you earn more money in pretty much any field that has even a tiniest sliver of a requirement for soft skills. A friend of mine was literally the first University student intern a company had ever hired after the internship because he had the soft skills. His starting wage is 80k immediately after graduation. Don't discount the power of rapidly connecting with people in a socially and emotionally intelligent way.

[Keryo Koffa]

I know it's a confusing and awe inspiring insight, but most women are indeed, human, mortal, flawed, and individual 🤯

Not talking about the ones on this forum, of course, those are different kinds of beasts entirely out of your ballpark! 😏

44 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Why you being all non dual here lmao 

I think he's had enough of dating advice The real solution would of course be to outsource the rookie screening to NoSelfSelf! 😁

[WillCameron]

Just now, Keryo Koffa said:

I know it's a confusing and awe inspiring insight, but most women are indeed, human, mortal, flawed, and individual 🤯

Not talking about the ones on this forum, of course, those are different kinds of beasts entirely out of your ballpark! 😏

I think he's had enough of dating advice The real solution would of course be to outsource the rookie screening to NoSelfSelf! 😁

I feel like that would be spiritual bypassing. Not all problems can be solved through ego dissolution. Sometimes concrete solutions like going out and learning how to meet value-aligned women is the best approach.

[AION]

This lesson in this whole ordeal is that you have to love yourself and try to not outsource it to your partner…

But the whole thing about love is how can you give it to yourself when you don’t have it. It is like saying to a thirsty guy to stop being thirsty because it is working against his favor and he is scaring away the ladies. 

Love is an interesting thing though. It is not like water which is physical but it is metaphysical. Love is wisdom and it can’t be forced. It is spontaneous and it works in mysterious ways. 

Love can not be chased. If you let go of negativity it comes to you. It is metacognition. 

Edited September 9 by AION

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, AION said:

This lesson in this whole ordeal is that you have to love yourself and try to not outsource it to your partner…

But the whole thing about love is how can you give it to yourself when you don’t have it. It is like saying to a thirsty guy to stop being thirsty because it is working against his favor and he is scaring away the ladies. 

Love is an interesting thing though. It is not like water which is physical but it is metaphysical. Love is wisdom and it can’t be forced. It is spontaneous and it works in mysterious ways. 

Love can be chased. If you let go of negativity it comes to you. It is metacognition. 

You're expressing a significant personal journey. You've realized that seeking external validation through certain behaviors is counter productive and that a more internal approach is more effective. However, you're struggling to let go of these compulsive behaviors and you're seeking guidance on how to find positive role models. Maybe that is what your focus should really be. I can understand how difficult it must be to break free from habits that have been a part of your life for so long. It's great that you've recognized the importance of an inside-out approach to self-esteem. It's a valuable realization.Have you tried mindfulness techniques or journaling to help manage these compulsive thoughts and behaviors? You could hire wingmen or join groups instead of being sucked in by the manosphere. Remember, the goal is to build genuine connections based on mutual respect and understanding. Avoid situations or people that might exploit your vulnerabilities.It's important to remember that your worth is not defined by external validation. You are valuable and deserving of respect, regardless of your circumstances.

[WillCameron]

Just now, AION said:

This lesson in this whole ordeal is that you have to love yourself and try to not outsource it to your partner…

But the whole thing about love is how can you give it to yourself when you don’t have it. It is like saying to a thirsty guy to stop being thirsty because it is working against his favor and he is scaring away the ladies. 

Love is an interesting thing though. It is not like water which is physical but it is metaphysical. Love is wisdom and it can’t be forced. It is spontaneous and it works in mysterious ways. 

It can't be forced, but it can be cultivated. Here's a simple exercise I did when I was recovering from body image issues. I'd stand in front of the mirror after weighing myself and say, "I love you no matter how much you weigh" or "I love you no matter what you look like". A negative thought would arise and rather than hating or rejecting that thought, I'd say, "thank you, I love you even if that's true. I appreciate you trying to help."

You have to recognize that even the most hateful thoughts in your head are just trying to help. They have been splintered off and given self-negative or other-negative roles based on the experience that fragmented them. From that perspective then, they really do deserve your love, appreciation, and forgiveness. In some cases you must even ask them for forgiveness. We think we should respond to self-hate with hate, but that just becomes more self-hate. Love your self-hate and you are adding more love. That doesn't mean you agree with those parts, but you just calmly thank them and love them, and then continue to love whatever part you feel you can't love, whether that's weight, a lack of money, a lack of social skills, a lack of intelligence, a lack of whatever.

One thing to be careful of is whether or not this exercise becomes overwhelmingly dysregulating for your body. If you find that this happens then take a break and go meditate, trying your best to recenter yourself and calm your agitated body down. It'll be hard work no matter what, but know and honour your limits. Self-love is a verb, so do the actions that make you feel more loving of yourself. One thing I do is take a hot bath with a book and relax as best as I can. 

Learning to love yourself won't make your dating struggles magically go away, but when done in tandem with nose to the grindstone action, this self-love will absolutely help you improve faster, and help you attract and be attracted to value-aligned, conscious women.

By the way, I just wanted to commend you for your response to this thread. You put yourself out there to express your concerns and when people responded to you in sometimes hostile ways you kept your cool and took in their criticisms. Definitely feel proud and self-loving for that. Being assertive and standing up for your perspective is an indispensable tool in life, but so is knowing when to soften and integrate the perspectives of others. I think you've demonstrated that well here.

[AION]

@Buck Edwards I have female friends who help me. As for mindfulness. I’m already doing that. That insight you responded to was a result of direct observation of my inner landscape aka mindfulness. 

Self worth is something interesting though. It is hard for me to understand but this therapist explains it wonderfully:

Self worth is basically a frame of mind you have to - religiously - believe in. Self worth is based on nothing. Just thin air. You could give it a religious spin to it and say “I’m made in the image of god and god is love so I’m love” but that is just my spin to give it any sense. 

 

Edited September 9 by AION

[Buck Edwards]

7 minutes ago, AION said:

@Buck Edwards I have female friends who help me. As for mindfulness. I’m already doing that. That insight you responded to was a result of direct observation of my inner landscape aka mindfulness. 

Self worth is something interesting though. It is hard for me to understand but this therapist explains it wonderfully:

Self worth is basically a frame of mind you have to - religiously - believe in. Self worth is based on nothing. Just thin air. You could give it a religious spin to it and say “I’m made in the image of god and god is love so I’m love” but that is just my spin to give it any sense. 

 

Your mindfulness practice is likely playing a crucial role in understanding your inner landscape and the beliefs that underpin your self-worth. By observing your thoughts and feelings, you're gaining insights into the patterns and narratives that shape your self perception.Mindfulness can help you identify negative beliefs about yourself. Once you recognize these beliefs, you can start to challenge them with evidence and alternative perspectives.Practicing self-compassion involves treating yourself with kindness and understanding, especially when you're facing challenges. This can help counteract negative self-beliefs and foster a more positive self-image. You need to do that a lot more.Setting achievable goals and celebrating your successes can boost your self-worth. It's important to focus on progress rather than perfection. So don't look for a perfect partner. Rather find someone who is more compatible to your own values. 

[AION]

16 minutes ago, WillCameron said:

It can't be forced, but it can be cultivated. Here's a simple exercise I did when I was recovering from body image issues. I'd stand in front of the mirror after weighing myself and say, "I love you no matter how much you weigh" or "I love you no matter what you look like". A negative thought would arise and rather than hating or rejecting that thought, I'd say, "thank you, I love you even if that's true. I appreciate you trying to help."

You have to recognize that even the most hateful thoughts in your head are just trying to help. They have been splintered off and given self-negative or other-negative roles based on the experience that fragmented them. From that perspective then, they really do deserve your love, appreciation, and forgiveness. In some cases you must even ask them for forgiveness. We think we should respond to self-hate with hate, but that just becomes more self-hate. Love your self-hate and you are adding more love. That doesn't mean you agree with those parts, but you just calmly thank them and love them, and then continue to love whatever part you feel you can't love, whether that's weight, a lack of money, a lack of social skills, a lack of intelligence, a lack of whatever.

One thing to be careful of is whether or not this exercise becomes overwhelmingly dysregulating for your body. If you find that this happens then take a break and go meditate, trying your best to recenter yourself and calm your agitated body down. It'll be hard work no matter what, but know and honour your limits. Self-love is a verb, so do the actions that make you feel more loving of yourself. One thing I do is take a hot bath with a book and relax as best as I can. 

Learning to love yourself won't make your dating struggles magically go away, but when done in tandem with nose to the grindstone action, this self-love will absolutely help you improve faster, and help you attract and be attracted to value-aligned, conscious women.

By the way, I just wanted to commend you for your response to this thread. You put yourself out there to express your concerns and when people responded to you in sometimes hostile ways you kept your cool and took in their criticisms. Definitely feel proud and self-loving for that. Being assertive and standing up for your perspective is an indispensable tool in life, but so is knowing when to soften and integrate the perspectives of others. I think you've demonstrated that well here.

Thanks for your wise and kind words. I’m a typical nice guy and people walk over my position all the time. So sometimes standing my ground and showing my teeth is a level up in terms of balancing my personality. 

I always put others on n1 and I need to learn to put myself on n1. The thing is sometimes people can perceive you as an asshole. But sometimes you need to overstep to see where the boundaries are. To be less safe in making judgements and also be quick in adjusting them when need be. 

Love is at the end in the eye of the beholder. It doesn’t exist in the physical realm. Love is seeing the truth and love is not always nice actually. Sometimes love can be painful in the form of tough love. Sometimes punching somebody in the face can be the most loving thing you can do. It is righteous judgement and righteous action. And it is trans rational. But majority of this forum is stage green and it is above their head. 

[aurum]

1 hour ago, AION said:

A guy can actually marry a McDonald chick for who she is. 
 

A women can’t do that. 
 

We aren’t build the same. 
 

That is not judging. I kind of understand. 

This talking point by manosphere dudes is such a double standard.

Just because you can marry a poor girl doesn’t mean your love is any less conditional.

Conditional love is just what humans do.

[Lyubov]

The thing is love isn’t a commodity. It isn’t something that can actually be given. A relationship is just two people relating and then you create love within yourself, you choose to go through these doors. Our partner acts as a sort of mirror for us which we then see this love within us. We do acts which reflect we are creating this love and in turn they do the same. It can come in the form of words, actions or sex which we create the most powerful and intense forms of love. Slow down. Actually examine what love is. Love in english is usually used to describe a physical sensation / vibration in the body which you have chosen to create because from within you are accepting and viewing what is with acceptance, allowing what is to be. You could by extension use the word love to mean look at what is without judgement. The thing is most people like you said do this partially. We do in fact only accept certain things about our partners while accepting other things. This is usually how relationships work. We choose to relate with people where there is this sort of equal balance between the two forces which have certain desires they wish to fulfill. Yin and yang. So yes I would say most women are with a man and love a man for the lifestyle and the actions he takes which show he is creating love within himself. At the same time she should know her beauty and feminine qualities are what interests him. After all, why not just date another man? You are impartial towards wanting to experience certain qualities of hers that fulfill desires. Remember, two opposites make one. It’s not her job to unconditionally accept everything about you, that’s your job to do it for yourself. It’s also not your job to unconditionally accept everything about her, at least not in the sense where you’re obligated to relate to her. I unconditionally accept the male barista who makes my coffee. It doesn’t mean I desire to fuck him. I would say the way forward is to really drop every story or belief you been told about relationships and focus on learning what love is and acceptance is and where it comes from, and how it’s always here for you. Then see how that benefits your relationships with others. It can really transform your life. Don’t look for value and love outside yourself. You have it now already.