On being manipulated and used

[Marcel]

Very long story short. My mother is mentally Ill and incredibly manipulative.

To give you a sense of everything I went through with her. ( A bit in random order, because I have endless examples )

When I was still in school there was a period of 1-2 years where she would wake me up at 3 am in the morning every day just to tell me that she will take her life today and left my room again.

Every day I was in school from grade 7-13 I expected to get a call that she would be gone.

She begged me endlessly to help her and i obliged. Read everything. Watched everything I possibly could to try and help. But she even after 10 years of me genuinely trying hasn’t used a single advice I have ever given her.

Even more problematic then that. She straight up refuses to improve. She doesn’t even shower independently, she genuinely needs to be told and even then it’s a fight. 

If I don’t spend time with her, she guilt trips me like you wouldn’t believe. Which led to me spending almost 4 years at home. ONLY at home from 20-24.

I battled suicidal thoughts. 2 suicide attempts. Rage Issues. Frustration. Hopelessness. The whole deal.

It nearly destroyed me. It tore me apart.

Imagine the situation I was in. I desperately wanted to help my mom, but in all reality she didn’t want my help at all and just completely manipulated me with guilt and my love for her. 

Imagine spending years of your life on something / someone, giving your heart and soul in the process, just for it to go nowhere.

That’s just a short overview. I could talk about this whole situation in exhaustive details forever. 

I haven’t even mentioned the truly gut wrenching part yet. Here it goes. This is very tough to talk about. It hurts. It seriously hurts.

She tried to get me to take her life. No. Not just assisting with suicide. Literally taking her life and boy she really tried. Triggering and Upsetting me daily on purpose to achieve that end. 

Barely letting me sleep sometimes. I distinctly remember once being awake for 4 days straight. In the end having to call help and get her into a psych ward. I was so exhausted. I was basically bed ridden for three weeks and couldn’t even speak for a week. And on top of that my mom blamed me for everything. 

If you think you understand real rage. I can assure you, you probably don’t. I sometimes was so so so close to have a violent outburst. 

Think about this. If I hadn’t been present enough to leave, on multiple occasions,  I would have taken my mothers life in a very violent way. 

But. Despite all of this. I am grateful for everything that happened and wouldn’t have it any other way. 

No one can ever manipulate and take advantage of me ever again. I know this game to well. I can smell it coming from the moon.

Coming to the good news.

In the whole process I stumbled into spirituality and met my wife. Everything turned out greater then I ever could have hoped for. 

I am not bitter. I am not negative. I am not depressed. I am not hateful. I am not suicidal. I am not angry. I am not weak and I am not a victim. 

I am genuinely happy nowadays. I am excited about life and will continue to give my heart and soul in everything i do and wear my heart on my sleeve.

Puh this post was difficult to write. 

I still have lots to process and it’s a real challenge. But Im improving. 

 

 

 

Edited September 9 by Marcel

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Marcel said:

But I’m determined to win. 

Determined to forgive 

[Marcel]

26 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Determined to forgive 

I meant „win“ in a very very broad sense.

That’s definitely part of it.

[Buck Edwards]

@Marcel

You have been through rough times and adverse situations yet everything you have shown is incredibly inspiring and you shouldn't have to blame yourself for any of it 

 

The first step is to remove shame and blame. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Don't guilt yourself. Next is to remove the emotion of blame. Dissociate yourself from thoughts that make you feel that you're responsible for something. What you have endured is brave and courageous and it's not your fault that your mother couldn't take care of herself. It was neither your responsibility nor your burden. You are totally free from it. You have lived an inspiring life and that's what you need to remind yourself 

I have known you for such a long time. Thank you for this heartfelt post. Everything that you've been through has only made you stronger. You have emerged to be much better than what and how you were many years ago. Time heals believe me and I have learned so much from you. 

You can overcome this. You can overcome this. You can overcome this. And I say it from the bottom of my heart. 

You're truly the most inspiring and most humble trustworthy hard working person I have ever had the opportunity to come across. Thank you  thank you thank you for being there. 

Yes I understand what you're going through with your mom and your journey so far has been incredible. You've experienced an incredibly difficult and traumatic situation in your life just like I went through my own trauma in childhood. But you have grown into such a strong person, it's phenomenal. 

It's important to acknowledge that your experiences are valid and that you've shown incredible strength and resilience.

One to get around your mom's situation is to spend as less time as possible with her. Forgive her for what she did. She had to deal with her own demons when you were young. That's the sad part and reality of mental illness. Maybe it wasn't her intention to manipulate you. It's her own circumstances and karma to deal with. However this is your opportunity to focus on your and how you can turn this into something valuable for yourself. 

Look within yourself. There's so much potential in you. You're the most loving, kind, incredible human I have met. You have the potential and the strength to make a difference. Your aura itself is strong and everlasting. 

I think what will help you in your situation are positive affirmations, keeping yourself strong, reminding yourself that every day is a source of new hope and knowing deep within yourself that you can overcome this no matter what. Along with that some daily gratitude exercise will help you. Journal your emotions everyday to get remain unstuck and unburdened by them.

 

Edited September 8 by Buck Edwards

[Marcel]

3 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

It was neither your responsibility nor your burden.

Yeah. I’m aware of that. Just letting the feeling of responsibility go. Be it guilt induced or not is very much challenging. 

I will definitely spent less time with her.
 

Work absolutely helps. It’s just that after work I’m home and I still can’t quite find the courage to finally move out and leave this part of my life behind me. 

Thank you for all the kind words and suggesting an action plan 

Still have my struggles feeling proud of myself. Despite everything I often feel like a failure. Even though there was nothing to be failed.

Trying to help someone who doesn’t actually want help is an impossible task. One that I shouldn’t have taken on to begin with, but at least I was able to learn from it. 

 

 

[Kalki Avatar]

Hey man, sry to hear about your experience. I feel you completely trust me. People have no idea what going through stuff like this since you are born is really like. It’s like being born in a nazi camp where you are tortured daily and is justified by twisted government laws. Just because you are a male and your mom is your main family member, people who have not experienced this think this is not a big thing. Since it’s something not so easily visible, but in my perspective this should be treated almost equally as physical pain by laws. The fact that you torture your child through extensive abusive manipulation in the name of beins its mother can be very trick and something hard to get out, like a never ending cycle. It’s even hard to put into words. You know, it’s your mom… even if you know the truth deep down you still can’t accept the fact completely unless you are like really awake and detached. 
 

I’m in the same situation my self since being born, but in my case not only my mom, but my 2 sisters and father are all narcisists. Surrounded by demons this feels like hell. You can’t even really trust and express yourself, since there is always a critic and a guilt trip. All facade. The damage is real. And it not only affects you personally, but it fucks your whole future… it destroys your self belief, confidence and even desire to keep going. Sometimes you just want it all to end somehow. 
 

My recommendation is to talk at least possible (I know it’s hard). You have to reprogram your mind by seeing and studying narcisism on YouTube, which is a mental illness. Watch these videos like doctor ramani, daniel mackler and narcCon. You got to study tricker, deception and dark psychology tactics. Narcisista know how to manipulate in all of these ways even unconsciously because their mind functions with different perspectives. So your mom can trick you in ways with her words that you don’t even realize and thus can affect you. See her basically as your demon mom. Thats the right pov so you are always alert. Forget about trying to win her, it will never work. I have done everything with mine and still to this day she is a greedy Btch that rejects me and acts like a 5 year old kid who wants to compete in the most nonsense stuff. If you keep track on what she says you will never move forward in life, I did with mine and have a lot of regrets. I don’t mind a fck at this point about their opinions. Act like this and she will respect you. Be a silent rebel and see how you start thriving. This Btch has been the main obstacle in my life. 
 

See if this video resonates with you

[Marcel]

1 hour ago, Kalki Avatar said:

it destroys your self belief, confidence and even desire to keep going. Sometimes you just want it all to end somehow

Absolutely. Living in a household like this, is immensely difficult and the average person will never understand this struggle. 

By „winning“. I didn’t mean win her over. I’m way beyond that by now. I tried just about everything over the years and it nearly destroyed me on every level.

Learned many valuable lessons because of that. I’m spending less and less time with her, still not entirely through with this process, because as you said, it’s very easy to fall back into helper mode.

Also. My view is different. I don’t see her as a demon. I totally understand why you would see my mom or yours like that though.

Once i was deep in spirituality and realised everything is love, in varying degrees.

I’ve decided then and there that I would not harbor any resentment towards her. No bitterness. No anger. No revenge.

Just love and gratitude. 

Nothing more and nothing less.

Im letting go of all of it. Well. Slowly.

I also made a decision to not let anyones actions or words dictate my emotional state in any way shape or form. 

It’s very freeing to take absolute accountability in that manner. 

Challenging. But absolutely worth it. 

[Kalki Avatar]

@Marcel Letting go and forgiveness is hard but it’s not the hardest thing, aside from healing from all that damage. The thing is if you still live with her or have to relate to her continuously is how the relationship will be. In my case Im living with her. So, I have tried in the past to heal and let go, but the problem is that she will notice your vulnerabilities and change and get even more abusive. So it’s a really hard thing to manage or even get through. 
 

On the other side, I see mine as a demon because she is literally influenced by demons. When she is angry her face morphs and changes into one of a demon. There is a close correlation between narcissism and demons. Demons know this people are weak minded and easy to influence since both live in the same low energy field. Also, my mom used to be tormented by bad spirits when she was a kid. So this is why I know. I can literally see a demon inside her eyes, always angry. Oh, and not only the manipulation, she abused me hardcore physically too. I remember when I was close to enlightenment, this woman made it impossible for me to be in peace. Trust me I know what am telling you. I know demons are ultimately pure love, but that’s not the context to which I’m referring to in the dream game experience. Its annoying as fck.

Edited September 9 by Kalki Avatar

[Marcel]

4 minutes ago, Kalki Avatar said:

I know demons are ultimately pure love, but that’s not the context to which I’m referring to in the dream game experience. Its annoying as fck.

Holy. That really does sound quite annoying. 

Still live with her as well. Definitely forces a very conscious way of relating. 

It sucks. But I’ll take it as a learning opportunity. With gratitude. 

[Leo Gura]

@Marcel That's brutal man. Insanely hard way to grow up. Sorry you got stuck with that. You were a damn good son.

Edited September 9 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

@Marcel I love you so much. You'll get through this. 

[RightHand]

On 9/8/2024 at 6:20 AM, Marcel said:

No one can ever manipulate and take advantage of me ever again. I know this game to well. I can smell it coming from the moon.

 

 

 

Yep! Tough lesson to fully integrate.

[Marcel]

9 hours ago, RightHand said:

Yep! Tough lesson to fully integrate.

For sure. But better young and now then late or never. I’m grateful for it 🙏

[Marcel]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Marcel That's brutal man. Insanely hard way to grow up. Sorry you got stuck with that. You were a damn good son.

Thanks Leo. 

I think I need to give you your flowers right now. Because you have influenced my life A whole lot for the better. 

The first  self-help product I ever bought was your life purpose course. To be honest I didn’t even entirely complete it back then. 5 years ago. Man that feels so far in the past. Almost like a different lifetime. 

It was an important starting point.

I, at the time, falsely concluded that my life purpose was to help my mom beat mental illness. It just felt „right“ at the time. 

I was to blind and young to see that I felt responsible for the completely wrong reasons and that that’s not my job in the first place. 

I entirely neglected my own life for a good decade, before i finally was able to turn things around. After not really being able to help her, even after everything I tried over the years. Which was a very bitter pill to swallow. 

I had accumulated over 5000 handwritten pages of notes that i threw away out of sheer disappointment in myself. 

Its a long long story. I’ll spare you the endless details and ups / downs. All I’m going to say is. This whole situation started when I was 9. 

So you can imagine that I was very very misguided and naive by the time I was 20 and stayed home for years on end in the illusion and hope that helping my mom beat mental illness was my life purpose and the right thing to do, leading to praise and achievement. 

Im 25 1/2 now. Left that part of my life mostly behind and have my sights set on new mountains to climb. That actually fulfil me. 

Still spent quite a bit of time with my mom. Maybe I can’t quite help the way I wish I could. But I can still be there for her as a son and love her unconditionally.

Because she’s my mom after all. 

It’s very tough to accept that some people just can’t be helped beyond a certain level, no matter how hard you try, especially if it’s family. 

But. I have learned a myriad of incalculably valuable lessons and had intense experiences that will serve me well for the rest of my life. 

I have probably watched your entire catalogue on YouTube and read a lot of the books on your booklist. It was and is a great help along this difficult path. 

Thank you Leo. You helped me tremendously to change and shape my life. I’m forever grateful.

Marcel 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9 by Marcel

[Marcel]

11 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Marcel I love you so much. You'll get through this. 

Thank you hun. I love you  💝💍

[OBEler]

@Marcel you can only help her if you understand her situation /behavior first.

MDMA can help in this but be careful of just using it sparely

Edited September 9 by OBEler

[Marcel]

Just now, OBEler said:

@Marcel you can only help her if you understand her completely first.

MDMA can help in this

I’ve genuinely spent 15 years, actually let’s say 10 years actively, trying to understand and help her. From 14-24. 

Its not that simple. She has mental illness and a whole lot of trauma on top of that.

Her mother committed suicide when she was 18 and she lost her best friend to alcohol abuse. There’s only so much I can do, even with the best of intentions and a decade of giving it my all to the point of complete exhaustion and beyond. 

The underlying problem is. She really doesn’t want to live anymore. I don’t know if mdma would make a difference.

Also. She takes quite strong medication. So I don’t know if doing mdma is a good idea 

[Osaid]

She definitely has covert NPD. Look it up. I went through the same scenario although obviously the details of my situation are different. But the manipulation tactics they use are always the same.

In regards to her attempts to "make you harm her", this is called reactive abuse. People with NPD will often try to make you "snap" so they can tell other people about it and make you look crazy or frame you.

You aren't the problem. You aren't responsible. You've been gaslighted since birth. Recognizing this is where freedom starts. Previously there is denial, but now there is recognition. Which means you can educate yourself now.

You are probably experiencing "enmeshment" and "parentification", which are also manipulation tactics used by people with NPD. It will also serve you to look into those, and educate yourself on the NPD manipulation tactics in general. This will make you very good at spotting it the next time it happens.

The "guilt" you feel in trying to leave her is purposefully manufactured by them. The motto of covert NPD is "always play victim". They drill this dynamic into you since birth.

You will come to find that many others have gone through the same, and in that way you can "learn from history" so to speak.

On 9/7/2024 at 10:20 PM, Marcel said:

But. Despite all of this. I am grateful for everything that happened and wouldn’t have it any other way. 

No one can ever manipulate and take advantage of me ever again. I know this game to well. I can smell it coming from the moon.

Hell yes, I can totally relate to this.

In the end, you become very very perceptive to people and emotions. And you can read narcissistic people like an open book. And you learn to appreciate genuine relationships much more. 

Once you recognize the manipulation, it becomes very easy to let go of.

It is your own decision to stay and care for them which feels hard to let go of. That is why they have to manufacture the "victim" dynamic in the first place. They have to create that image of themselves in your head to take advantage of your love and empathy. Once you recognize you're purposefully being manipulated, then that desire naturally just vanishes, because why would you stay with someone trying to purposefully harm you? Good riddance!

[OBEler]

@Marcel I thought more about you taking MDMA to understand her.

If she takes medicaments you need to be careful of psychedelics giving to her. However introducing her to psychedelics ,which can work with her medicaments, could be a game changer because this could give her opportunity to work on the trauma and start a fire to live again. However trip sitting would be needed all the time.

Edited September 10 by OBEler

[Marcel]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

The "guilt" you feel in trying to leave her is purposefully manufactured by them. The motto of covert NPD is "always play victim". They drill this dynamic into you since birth.

Hell yeah. She does that to perfection.

I don’t often talk about this topic with anyone to being with because people generally don’t quite understand how difficult breaking a dynamic like this can actually be.

Especially if you’ve been in it your entire life, that’s a whole different ball game.

In my mind this whole dynamic started when I was 9 and for the first time realised that my household is different. 

I distinctly remember it. It was at a birthday party and I was so confused about how the parents and especially the mother of my friend acted.

Actually taking care of things, being sweet and thoughtful, being involved, just the whole energy was so wildly different and unusual to me. 

That’s about the time i slowly started to developed a deep desire to help my mom, after seeing her in and out of psych wards and having a lot of doctors appointments.

My dad had also tried for several years, eventually stopped and became bitter about it for quite some time. I don’t blame him. 

He warned me over and over not to waste my time helping her. That’s how he communicated it. Which was of course fatal, because I. In my naive young mind obviously thought. Wtf dad? 

This is your wife and my mom. You have to keep helping her in every way possible no matter what. Let’s just say, things were communicated very poorly, but that’s a different story all together.