On being manipulated and used

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, Marcel said:

Hell yeah. She does that to perfection.

I don’t often talk about this topic with anyone to being with because people generally don’t quite understand how difficult breaking a dynamic like this can actually be.

Especially if you’ve been in it your entire life, that’s a whole different ball game.

In my mind this whole dynamic started when I was 9 and for the first time realised that my household is different. 

I distinctly remember it. It was at a birthday party and I was so confused about how the parents and especially the mother of my friend acted.

Actually taking care of things, being sweet and thoughtful, being involved, just the whole energy was so wildly different and unusual to me. 

That’s about the time i slowly started to developed a deep desire to help my mom, after seeing her in and out of psych wards and having a lot of doctors appointments.

My dad had also tried for several years, eventually stopped and became bitter about it for quite some time. I don’t blame him. 

He warned me over and over not to waste my time helping her. That’s how he communicated it. Which was of course fatal, because I. In my naive young mind obviously thought. Wtf dad? 

This is your wife and my mom. You have to keep helping her in every way possible no matter what. Let’s just say, things were communicated very poorly, but that’s a different story all together. 

I don't know how much time you might have spent blaming your dad. That must have been hard on him. 

[Marcel]

48 minutes ago, OBEler said:

I thought more about you taking MDMA to understand her.

Oh ok. Seems i misinterpreted that. 

Well. Introducing my mom to psychedelics would certainly be an interesting idea.

 That’ll take some time and a lot of research.

I myself have zero experience with psychedelics and before I even delve into them I absolutely need to be grounded first.

It would be irresponsible of me to do psychedelics at the present moment. 

I need to get my metaphorical ducks in a row first. Psychedelics are on my to do list, but they are absolutely not a priority right now.
 

[Leo Gura]

@Marcel When family is abusive or dysfunctional it's important to create distance and reduce contact with them. Do not feel bad for doing so. You have already sacrificed enough for her. You don't owe her more sacrifice.

Be careful giving her psychedelics. That could end very badly. She is nowhere mature enough to handle them responsibly, and then she will blame you for whatever problems go wrong. Psychedelics will not magically fix her profound personality and mental problems. It's a bad, bad idea to give psychedelics to mentally deranged and immature people.

Focus on healing yourself and getting on with your life purpose.

Edited September 10 by Leo Gura

[Marcel]

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I don't know how much time you might have spent blaming your dad. That must have been hard on him

Quite a bit unfortunately. There was a time I basically regarded him as my enemy.

He was well meaning. But the way he communicated with me made it seem like he doesn’t care and is unsupportive of my efforts. Which filled me with straight up hatred and disgust at the time. 

Which, you can imagine, led to us fighting a lot and our relationship deteriorated a ton.

BUT. It’s fine today. Me and my dad are on good terms and good friends nowadays. 

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, Marcel said:

He was well meaning. But the way he communicated with me made it seem like he doesn’t care and is unsupportive of my efforts. Which filled me with straight up hatred and disgust at the time. 

Thats perfectly understandable. 

[Marcel]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful giving her psychedelics. That could end very badly. She is nowhere mature enough to handle them responsibly, and then she will blame you for whatever problems go wrong. Psychedelics will not magically fix her profound personality and mental problems. It's a bad, bad idea to give psychedelics to mentally deranged and immature people.

Absolutely. I myself think I’m too unstable for psychedelics to begin with. At least right now. 

So giving it to her would be totally irresponsible. Other then that. I’ve never tried psychedelics myself before and wouldn’t even know how to go about getting them, let alone high quality ones.

My first priority is my life purpose and healing 

Still struggling quite a bit with keeping my distance, but I’m improving. 

[Buck Edwards]

@Marcel you're doing a great job. Hun it's incredible. You're such an inspiration. You are amazing. 

Edited September 10 by Buck Edwards

[Leo Gura]

@Marcel You've done amazing considering your starting point and situation.

Keep taking right action. Your positive momentum is snowballing.

[Marcel]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Marcel You've done amazing considering your starting point and situation.

Keep taking right action. Your positive momentum is snowballing.

It really is a bit of a miracle I’m still alive. 

I finally feel like I’m on the right track and come hell or high water. I’m committed to do something excellent with my life. 

Thanks again for all you do Leo.

It wouldn’t have been possible without you.

[Osaid]

46 minutes ago, Marcel said:

Hell yeah. She does that to perfection.

I don’t often talk about this topic with anyone to being with because people generally don’t quite understand how difficult breaking a dynamic like this can actually be.

Especially if you’ve been in it your entire life, that’s a whole different ball game.

In my mind this whole dynamic started when I was 9 and for the first time realised that my household is different. 

I distinctly remember it. It was at a birthday party and I was so confused about how the parents and especially the mother of my friend acted.

Actually taking care of things, being sweet and thoughtful, being involved, just the whole energy was so wildly different and unusual to me. 

That’s about the time i slowly started to developed a deep desire to help my mom, after seeing her in and out of psych wards and having a lot of doctors appointments.

My dad had also tried for several years, eventually stopped and became bitter about it for quite some time. I don’t blame him. 

He warned me over and over not to waste my time helping her. That’s how he communicated it. Which was of course fatal, because I. In my naive young mind obviously thought. Wtf dad? 

This is your wife and my mom. You have to keep helping her in every way possible no matter what. Let’s just say, things were communicated very poorly, but that’s a different story all together. 

The proper action is to leave and go no contact.

You can't be in a relationship with someone who has NPD without being abused, because the only way they know how to relate to people is by using and manipulating them emotionally. 

They will purposefully use your hope and optimism against you. They purposefully manufacture these emotions and ideas in you.

If you assume that they feel emotions like normal people do, then that means you've taken their bait. Because they don't. They only act like it to create an image of themselves in your head, which you emotionally relate to.

They will bank on your assumption that they can change and that they have empathy. They don't have either. That's why they have behaved this way for their entire life without ever changing. The fact that they never changed through all these years is proof of this, despite what they promise to you.

They are like AI robots that are constantly looking for different ways to manipulate your emotions. It's all calculated. They purposefully do this. They know you're hoping for them to change and they know that's why you're staying with them. It's all part of their plan. It's all purposeful. They know that they are hurting you. 

Edited September 10 by Osaid

[Marcel]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

The proper action is to leave and go no contact.

Working on it. 

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. It’s so easy to get sucked back into it at times and get emotionally involved again even while logically understanding that it’s not a good idea. 

I have far less contact with my mom then I used to. Still too much for my own good I imagine. But I’m getting there. 

[OBEler]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Marcel When family is abusive or dysfunctional it's important to create distance and reduce contact with them. Do not feel bad for doing so. You have already sacrificed enough for her. You don't owe her more sacrifice.

Be careful giving her psychedelics. That could end very badly. She is nowhere mature enough to handle them responsibly, and then she will blame you for whatever problems go wrong. Psychedelics will not magically fix her profound personality and mental problems. It's a bad, bad idea to give psychedelics to mentally deranged and immature people.

Focus on healing yourself and getting on with your life purpose.

Leo I would disagree here. I made the experience that psychedelics can be very helpful especially for mental ill/depressed people. People with panic attacks, suicidal thoughts etc. It's an absolute game changer. 

What I don't know is if these work on immature people. We should not label all mental ill people as immature. They are disfunctional but could be very mature and self reflective inside.

A trip sitter is a must (!!) at beginning if mental ill people trip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, OBEler said:

We should not label all mental ill people as immature.

I didn't.

Take into account the context of this thread. Giving that woman psychedelics is a clear No.

[Marcel]

31 minutes ago, OBEler said:

What I don't know is if these work on immature people. We should not label all mental ill people as immature. They are disfunctional but could be very mature and self reflective inside.

A trip sitter is a must (!!) at beginning if mental ill people trip.

Agreed. There’s a distinction to be made.

But it can be difficult to differentiate between the two, because it can look very similar.

For example when my mom has ( very rare ) clear moments, she always tells me how sorry she is for everything and I believe her. It feels and sounds like a heartfelt apology. 

Obviously I’m way too close to the situation at hand and am probably wearing red coloured  glasses. 

But I  often have the feeling that she genuinely wants to change but is unable to. 

For whatever reason. 

But if that’s the case and she really wants to change someone else needs to support her in a major way, like I did for years

I just can’t do it anymore. 
 

[OBEler]

@Marcel then maybe consider helping her with psychedelics if she seems mature 

People with mental illness are run by animalistic programs but there is a human behind.

[Starlight321]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Marcel then maybe consider helping her with psychedelics if she seems mature 

People with mental illness are run by animalistic programs but there is a human behind.

Given the context this is highly irresponsible advice. I wouldn't do that considering how far gone she is. A highly destabilized psyche will be turbo charged by that and hurt someone or herself badly.

 

[Marcel]

3 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

Given the context this is highly irresponsible advice. I wouldn't do that considering how far gone she is. A highly destabilized psyche will be turbo charged by that and hurt someone or herself badly.

Feel the same way. 

I don’t have a good feeling about this.

The potential risks are enormous. 

[OBEler]

3 hours ago, Marcel said:

Feel the same way. 

I don’t have a good feeling about this.

The potential risks are enormous. 

The potential risks are pretty manageable if you have a little experience with psychedelics already and understand what they can do and not do so that you can be a solid trip sitter.

As a beginner with no idea giving someone else this I would not do that also.

" A highly destabilized psyche will be turbo charged by that and hurt someone or herself badly."

More likely A highly destabilized psyche could be on psychedelics for the first time normal again. And even if it get out of control by hurting itself or others in the rare case the trip sitter can manage that.

 

 

 

[Marcel]

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

The potential risks are pretty manageable if you have a little experience with psychedelics already and understand what they can do and not do so that you can be a solid trip sitter.

As a beginner with no idea giving someone else this I would not do that also.

" A highly destabilized psyche will be turbo charged by that and hurt someone or herself badly."

More likely A highly destabilized psyche could be on psychedelics for the first time normal again. And even if it get out of control by hurting itself or others in the rare case the trip sitter can manage that.

Fair enough. 

I truly am a complete beginner with psychedelics. I have a basic understanding of them, but that’s really it, no actual real life experience.

Just out of curiosity. Which psychedelics would even be a good starting point, especially given this situation? 

I really have no clue. That doesn’t mean I’ll actually follow through with it, most likely I won’t because my gut feeling is cautioning me. But I’d like to have a general outlook anyhow. 

[OBEler]

7 hours ago, Marcel said:

Fair enough. 

I truly am a complete beginner with psychedelics. I have a basic understanding of them, but that’s really it, no actual real life experience.

Just out of curiosity. Which psychedelics would even be a good starting point, especially given this situation? 

I really have no clue. That doesn’t mean I’ll actually follow through with it, most likely I won’t because my gut feeling is cautioning me. But I’d like to have a general outlook anyhow. 

Overall MDMA, ketamin, allad, LSD, shrooms are the best for beginners.

Here would be my plan if I have access to all of them:

Allad 75 micro. Then 150 second time (that's usually 1 tab).allad had only 4-6 hours trip duration. Very friendly psychedelic.

If you manage that well switch to LSD 50 micro .second time 100. Third time 150.

After LSD trips you can switch to shrooms which are more twisted.

MDMA, ketamin can be always taken it's almost always positive. But you need to take long breaks so you don't damage your brain.

 

 

 

Edited September 11 by OBEler