Cenk Uygur on Lex

[Hardkill]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think so.

TYT helps pull people into healthy progressivism. They do a good job deconstructing a lot of right-wing BS, and also some centrist BS.

Alright, well I hope so.
 

I just wish that they were less hyperbolic, sounded more hopeful, and were more pragmatic, like Pod Save America, BTC, More Perfect Union, or Meidas Touch.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I just wish that they were less hyperbolic, sounded more hopeful, and were more pragmatic, like Pod Save America, BTC, More Perfect Union, or Meidas Touch.

They are too leftist for that.

[Hardkill]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are too leftist for that.

Yeah, I kinda thought that.

So, what you’be been saying throughout this entire thread is that there are many degrees of progressivism or leftism. 
 

On a scale from least to most left-wing/progressive and from most pragmatic to most idealistic:

Pod Save America, BTC, More perfect Union, Meidas Touch, Destiny, IRI, PoliticsGirl, and others like them are the least left-wing or the most pragmatic group of progressives.

TYT, Secular Talk, Majority Report, the Humanist Report, Krystal Ball, Vaush, Michael Moore, and others like them are more left-wing and less pragmatic than the above first group.

Hasan, Jill Stein, Cornel West, Rashida Tlaib, that InfraHaz guy,  communists/socialists, and others like them are the most left-wing and the least pragmatic group of left-wingers.

Edited September 8 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill That's a good summary of the situation.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

TYT, Secular Talk, Majority Report, the Humanist Report, Krystal Ball, Vaush, Michael Moore, and others like them are more left-wing and less pragmatic than the above first group.

I’ve been giving Kyle a bit more credit lately. I think his perspective is maturing.

[Ash55]

On 9/8/2024 at 2:38 AM, Leo Gura said:

TYT has huge reach, bigger than Hasan.

@Leo Gura isn't not Hassan and TYT shares a lots of views ? there is so much noise in Hassan videos so i didn't spend great deal of time teaching him, but he has a lots of good points on anti monopoly, basic health care and social housing, emphases on empathy and compassion

 

On 9/7/2024 at 11:41 PM, Leo Gura said:

delusional in some of his leftist ideals

Where is he delusional can you elaborate again am not an advocate politics watcher lol, but you helped me so a lots of errors in both sides and many potential view for better future 

Hassan talk like a dickhead most of the time but on some podcast talks very calmly and sounds much more moderate leftist
he even mentioned how capitalism will not go away  or as far as i remember he mentioned that his goal is not communism for now but regulating capitalism,  and insuring basic human need like shelter
i hope to hear your view leo

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Ash55 said:

Where is he delusional can you elaborate again

He suffers from the same thing most leftists suffer from, which is that they don't understand that the majority of people are fairly conservative, and leftists don't understand why it must be this way. As a result they end up howling at the moon, endlessly frustrated that society does not progress fast enough to fit their wildly unrealistic ideals.

Society is not progressive and will never be progressive because survival runs the show.

All this talk of Marxism, endless equality, and bold progressive victory is childish nonsense. When you really understand politics this becomes clear as day. Cenk and Hasan are selling naive folks pipedreams.

Edited September 9 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He suffers from the same thing most leftists suffer from, which is that they don't understand that the majority of people are fairly conservative, and leftists don't understand why it must be this way. As a result they end up howling at the moon, endlessly frustrated that society does not progress fast enough to fit their wildly unrealistic ideals.

Society is not progressive and will never be progressive because survival runs the show.

Polls find many of the key issues he supports are actually relatively popular with the wider public, such as banning money in politics and Medicare for all.

He was also totally right about the dems not having a primary and needing to replace Biden, which all the supposedly “reasonable liberals” were against until they nearly fell off the cliff 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

He was also totally right about the dems not having a primary and needing to replace Biden,

It was obvious that replacing Biden would be a win, the only problem was that Biden had to do it himself, which was a long-shot.

I was pointing out where Cenk is delusional. That doesn't mean Cenk isn't right about stuff.

Edited September 9 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They are too leftist for that.

No, he isn’t bought and they are.

Cenk said he was specifically told he was fired from MSNBC for refusing to stop criticizing Obama. 

Those “moderate” podcasts get the same message, the difference is they listen to their orders.

There were many mistakes the democrats made which ended up being huge disasters that the leftists were completely right about in recent history. It’s insane people are trying to double down on the moderate democrats.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It was obvious that replacing Biden would be a win, the only problem was that Biden had to do it himself, which was a long-shot.

Except if the democrats had a primary and people saw Biden’s age he would have been pressured out much earlier. You yourself were defending the democrats not holding a primary earlier.

It still took a while to shove him out partly because many kept defending him.

The only reason he got out was because Trump inexplicably agreed to a early debate. If that hasn’t happened we’d be having the debate reveal this month, and it would be too late for him to get out, and trump would win in a landslide. Listening to the moderate dems over the “crazy leftist” was literally a centimeter away from pushing everyone off a cliff, we just got lucky. 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

No, he isn’t bought and they are.

Cenk said he was specifically told he was fired from MSNBC for refusing to stop criticizing Obama. 

So what? This is not news to me.

Quote

Those “moderate” podcasts get the same message, the difference is they listen to their orders.

Again, so what? That's politics. That's the game.

Quote

There were many mistakes the democrats made which ended up being huge disasters that the leftists were completely right about in recent history. It’s insane people are trying to double down on the moderate democrats.

It doesn't matter. The country is not magically turning progressive.

The point is that progressives and leftists are paradigm-locked, and they don't even know it.

Edited September 9 by Leo Gura

[Ash55]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All this talk of Marxism, endless equality, and bold progressive victory is childish nonsense. When you really understand politics this becomes clear as day. Cenk and Hasan are selling naive folks pipedreams.

What do you think the real answer to the housing crisis, And how do we meet the average human basic need (midst late stage capitalism and so much corporate power) in the US, knowing that the center of gravity of the country is too conservative  

Edited September 9 by Ash55

[Raze]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So what? This is not news to me.

Again, so what? That's politics. That's the game.

It doesn't matter. The country is not magically turning progressive.

The point is that progressives and leftists are paradigm-locked, and they don't even know it.

The point of the free press is to provide a critique of the powerful to create a balance in society. If the powerful have control over it they can now set a narrative that is good for their own goals but not necessarily for the wider public, which can lead that backlash.

There are many examples in just recent history for how disastrous this is.

If the media was more critical of Bill Clinton and Obama’s trade deals, they could perhaps push them to reform them in a way that was less harmful to manufacturing. A major reason trump won was because of dissatisfied voters who had lost their jobs due to these deals. 

If the media was more critical of Obama’s Syria policy, they could have perhaps stopped him from funding rebels in Syria, that would have reduced the amount of Syrian refugees, the large amount of them was a major cause of the rise of the far right in Europe. 

The issue is assuming when Cenk or the left disagrees with the moderates it’s because they are wild eyed leftists and the moderates are realistic, that can be the case, but sometimes it isn’t and they are actually right.

If you ask Cenk what his biggest policies would be, aside from Israel which is controversial, he would say ban money from politics and Medicare for all. To dismiss this as unrealistic leftism because the moderate dems don’t do it is wrong, as we have polling data finding they poll at 90-70% support respectively with the wider public. This indicates that if the moderate dems and their outlets aren’t pushing for it, it’s not actually for a practical electoral reason.

I’d actually argue that moderate democrats are more willing to push the aspects of leftist beliefs that are more controversial with the wider public, such as aspects of lgbtq rights, DEI, and aspects of modern feminism. 

The reason is clearly less what gets votes and more what lobbies want and don’t want.

Edited September 9 by Raze

[Hardkill]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill That's a good summary of the situation.

Okay, got it. Thanks!

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

The issue is assuming when Cenk or the left disagrees with the moderates it’s because they are wild eyed leftists and the moderates are realistic, that can be the case, but sometimes it isn’t and they are actually right.

Of course they are sometimes right. So what? That's a low bar.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course they are sometimes right. So what? That's a low bar.

What do you think about members of the squad like Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush having lost their seats in Congress to more moderate Democrats? You think this is a sign that progressivism has been losing some of its steam?

[aurum]

16 minutes ago, Raze said:

The issue is assuming when Cenk or the left disagrees with the moderates it’s because they are wild eyed leftists and the moderates are realistic, that can be the case, but sometimes it isn’t and they are actually right.

Survival and bullshit go hand in hand.

It doesn't matter if leftists are "right" when truth is antithetical to survival.

That they don't understand this is why they are naive and not realistic.

[Jacob Morres]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Society is not progressive and will never be progressive

Okay never say never, america has grown a ton throughout its 300y history. At the rate it's growing, we might have that, in 300 more 

Why so pessimistic!! 

I do agree it is very hard for society to evolve though. Humanity repeats a lot of its errors repeatedly. But it's definitely trending upward 

Also consider, gen z is 30-40% progressive! Imagine gen alpha, and gen z's kids (whatever is after alpha). We are progressing!! 

Edited September 9 by Jacob Morres

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course they are sometimes right. So what? That's a low bar.

Beating Trump is also a low bar yet Democrats are one for two on it and potentially about to be one to three