What are the fundamental "qualities" of consciousness?

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, jakee said:

So according to this, the genes do have a derivative relationship with intelligence and potential for development of the individual filtered mind, but they are still a construction of the "mind at large".

Of course everything is a construct of Mind At Large.

Genetics is a relative notion in our relative "material" world.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Girzo]

9 minutes ago, jakee said:

Yeah, thats why I said "is this a good way to conceptualize it", not "is this the correct explanation" of said phenomena.

yes, and I just wanted to add my point in case someone else reads it and goes, "oh, a shiny concept, must be closer to truth," as it's quite a common trap.

[Clarence]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Why don't you have the consciousness of a kangaroo? You will have to appeal to some external factor outside your control. Basically God decided to go with human vs kangaroo, for whatever complex technical reasons.

At this level, it is easier for me to grasp. But it is not as easy human to human. I've always felt like levels of consciousness were somewhat independent to human genetics. But now I don't know anymore.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But body and genes are just says to talk about consciousness.

Yes, it's strange-loopy.

You can call it genetics or past life karma, either way you are just saying that your consciousness tends to flow a certain way and not another.

It makes a lot of sense like this. The notion of continuity of consciousness is important in the way I perceive things, more important than the finite human body.

But in this sense, consciousness could be the reason for certain genetics to be the way they are in the first place, and so things would be reversed. Not genetics causing specific consciousness, but consciousness causing specific genetics, including at the human to human level.

Indeed, it's a real strange-loop.

[When I say consciousness here, I mean 'individual' consciousness (in absence of a better word).]

Edited September 7, 2024 by Clarence

[Keryo Koffa]

Genes are Memes. The DNA of the Soul steadily materialized in physical reality as support for the mind's expansive experience.

[Clarence]

53 minutes ago, Girzo said:

You don't really know what Sadhguru is saying when he talks about multiple lifetimes. I for sure don't. He could have meant anything. Who here has a direct insight into such matters?

Many people do. Some have spontaneous flashbacks, others get to know about their past lives through the Akashic Records (you can learn how to access them yourself), or through past life regression hypnosis.

You can look into Michael Newton's work, who specialized in regressions in the period in between lives, but he also talks about past lives. Through this practice, people can get direct access to their past lives.

I haven't done it yet, but it's something I'd like to experience. It would just require more work than average for me because my mind is particularly active. So I would need to practice calming my mind and letting go before attempting a session, or I would fail to enter the specific hypnotic state.

[zurew]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But body and genes are just ways to talk about consciousness.

Yes, it's strange-loopy.

You can call it genetics or past life karma, either way you are just saying that your consciousness tends to flow a certain way and not another.

Why don't you have the consciousness of a kangaroo? You will have to appeal to some external factor outside your control. Basically God decided to go with human vs kangaroo, for whatever complex technical reasons.

You are confusing people again because you are equivocating between different notions of consciousness.

1) Is about metaphysics

2) Is about what a person became conscious of or is conscious of right now

These are different things and if you are not clear about which time you want to use the term with which meaning - you will confuse people.

 

Edited September 7, 2024 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

@zurew I don't see what's confusing about what I said.

[Davino]

I don't want to conflate the human vessel with consciousness. Right now consciousness takes the form of body, ego mind, but also of this screen, the room, all the objects within it, sounds, breathing is happening and so on.

This is a state of Consciousness, a permutation consciousness can be in within Infinity and is itself Infinite and self contained.

Consciousness interacts with Itself, in counterintuitive, intelligent and experiential ways. It seems that body and human mind plays a central factor in filtering consciousness, in the same way wearing red glasses makes the world red, your body mind makes the world human and survival oriented.

There are Infinite states Consciousness can be, with all properties and qualities possible. Here I would say consciousness, awareness, truthfulness, love, presence, spaciousness, holism, intelligence, divinity, Perfection, Godliness, Infinity... constitute desirable and higher qualities, because the opposite lead to self deception. I cannot bring any other explanation than this should be realized as self explanatory and inherently Good.

To further investigate this topic I would reference this three videos:

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Davino

[r0ckyreed]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Intelligence is highly genetic, precisely because intelligence and consciousness are so linked.

@Leo GuraI’m playing God’s Advocate here.

I was reading about a woman who never ran in her life until age 50 and she was overweight her whole life. Then she started running ultra marathons.

Also, how do you explain through the lens of genetics that I was born with ADHD and had no interest in reading or philosophy until I went to college? It was my environment that shaped me. Sure, you need to have a working body, but all of my efforts to develop the intelligence I have came from my work ethic and not just from innate genetics alone. You could argue innate genetics contributed to work ethic, but I would argue that I could’ve fallen into victim mentality and said “screw it I have ADHD; therefore, I will always be bad at school.” Hell no. It took my parents advocating for a constructive environment that helped me to develop the skills of focus that I needed to thrive. I feel like this genetics theory becomes unfalsifiable because no matter case example I give, you could always just say it is genetics. What would be evidence that genetic theory may be wrong? Here we are going into the subjectiveness of evidence.

[Keryo Koffa]

@r0ckyreed Genetics are just calcified karmic patterns.

[Davino]

@r0ckyreed Genetics mean the space of your human possibilities. Yes it's immense but it also has limits.

No amount of work ethic will turn you into an eagle or a jellyfish.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Davino

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

But all of my efforts to develop the intelligence I have came from my work ethic and not just from innate genetics alone.

The point is that none of your efforts would have mattered if you were born a chimpanzee.

I didn't say intelligence is 100% genetic. Science says intelligence is about 60% genetic and the rest is environmental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Stop thinking of this issue as either or. It's both. You need the right genetic foundation and then you need to take massive action on top of that to reach success. This is true for all human achievement, including spirituality.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Tech36363]

13 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

Highly controversial. I guess Sadhguru was just born that way then. 

 

It was actually work of many lifetimes , and because of the work and preparation he did earlier he started where he left off . 

[Joshe]

Thanks for your responses. I've got lots to mull over.

@Leo Gura I agree with your position but I'm still skeptical there's not more to it. Out of like 15 kids in my family that were all born around the same time, I was the only one born different, non-comfortist, not afraid to look at uncomfortable things, could see deeper, less selfish, independent, deeply empathetic, had more courage, etc. My parents, their siblings, my siblings, all my cousins, no one has this thing, it's just me. Why? I understand the interconnectedness of genetic and environmental variance but that doesn't satisfy me here. I intuit the cause can be traced back and if we can trace it back, we can possibly reproduce it. 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Joshe

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Thanks for your responses. I've got lots to mull over.

@Leo Gura I agree with your position but I'm still skeptical there's not more to it. Out of like 15 kids in my family that were all born around the same time, I was the only one born different, non-comfortist, not afraid to look at uncomfortable things, could see deeper, less selfish, independent, deeply empathetic, had more courage, etc. My parents, their siblings, my siblings, all my cousins, no one has this thing, it's just me. Why? I understand the interconnectedness of genetic and environmental variance but that doesn't satisfy me here. I intuit the cause can be traced back and we can trace it back, we can reproduce it. 

I only see 3 options:

1) Genetics

2) Past life stuff

3) Environmental stuff

And I don't buy into past life stuff.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

What about grace?

I think it does play a role. Sometimes grace can hit you like a lightning bolt 

[r0ckyreed]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The point is that none of your efforts would have mattered if you were born a chimpanzee.

I didn't say intelligence is 100% genetic. Science says intelligence is about 60% genetic and the rest is environmental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Stop thinking of this issue as either or. It's both. You need the right genetic foundation and then you need to take massive action on top of that to reach success. This is true for all human achievement, including spirituality.

Good point. I suffer from black and white thinking from time to time. Reality is that truth is many not just one. Postmodernism in action.

Edited September 7, 2024 by r0ckyreed

[Joshe]

5 minutes ago, Davino said:

What about grace?

Nice!!! Definitely a contender/causal factor. Something I can work with. 

Any opinions/ideas of grace? 

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Davino said:

What about grace?

What about disgrace?

Can hit you too. 

[Breakingthewall]

Regarding levels of consciousness, it would be said that less is more. sadhguru knows many things and is aware of much, but a fetus creates itself from a subatomic level, coordinating infinite dimensions, being. everything sadhguru knows is a joke compared to what a leaf knows, which is the entire universe. sadhguru is the tip of the iceberg, a speck of dust is the entire iceberg. The human mind is an illusion, a pale reflection, it means nothing. There is only one level of consciousness, the total level, Anything else are illusions

Edited September 7, 2024 by Breakingthewall