When is it okay to lie to yourself for success?

[UpperMaster]

In the video "The Avoidance Of Truth - Why You Fear Truth", Leo says that if he was completely real with himself on how much work it would take for him to achieve success in many of the sub domains in life like dating or business, he wouldn't do it (because it is way more than expected). He then admits that lies, and not facing truth is useful for success, and in the beginning you must be over-optimistic. 

I'm so confused on where to draw the line between when it's okay to lie to yourself, how to do so correctly for the sake of progress? 

 

More and more I'm realising how different your mindset should be when beginning to self-actualising vs later on in your journey. 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

Never lie to yourself.Always go with understanding of where you are and what you bring to the situation.Then from that point you progress.You lose so much when you dont even know where you are at and what you need for next step ,lying is just keeping you where you are...

Edited September 6, 2024 by NoSelfSelf

[Buck Edwards]

Lying won't take you anywhere. Deep self honesty is the road way to ultimate success. 

[UpperMaster]

@NoSelfSelf Is optimism lying to some extent. Like you are blocking out all negativity, even if its true no.

[NoSelfSelf]

@UpperMaster its more about knowing where you are and work from that point vs you lying to yourself and not knowing where you are, just going in circles.Optimism is another layer to this its trusting the process that it will work out,if you systematicly chip away at it...

For example in dating, if you dont know where you are at, what you bring to the situation but optimisticly just trusting ,then you dont know what "weapons" you gonna use, you just throwing shit againts the wall hoping something will stick it could work but im more about self development than resaults coming from optimism...

Its combination of trust know how...

But Leo example is different you are looking at other persons journey hes on creative path i guess, so you will not know where you are going most of the time...

Edited September 6, 2024 by NoSelfSelf

[Keryo Koffa]

It depends. Optimisim can be Denial or Vision. And Vision translates imagination into reality.

If you didn't have faith in your legs, you would not attempt to move them.

What is and isn't possible is variable, optimism primes you to expand your capacities.

[Realms of Wonder]

I’ll share a perspective here.

 

I’d rather know how hard it could be, how much effort it could take and how hard it could be because If I still want to do it it’s probably a good option.

 

For example, with YouTube and my music career. It’s likely it will take another 6-12 months before I’m monetized, and another 6-12 months before I’m earning enough to step away from my day job, maybe even longer..

it could be 2+ years of consistent effort, learning, failing, and not seeing the result I want before I succeed at that.

 

but even knowing that I’m excited, I see how far I have come and see where I could end up and it’s inspiring.

[UpperMaster]

@Realms of Wonder yea so its like almost a way to see how much you want a thing or not

[UpperMaster]

Fair guys, so most of you don't believe in lying to yourself in any circumstance 

[Keryo Koffa]

34 minutes ago, UpperMaster said:

Fair guys, so most of you don't believe in lying to yourself in any circumstance 

What's a truth and what's a lie? You suck, true or false? If you don't tomorrow, what happened?

Beliefs shape reality, what you call lie is an ego-defense mechanism paradigm-lock keeping you stuck.

[Atb210201]

Never

At least be honest with yourself always and forever

As honest as possible 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Atb210201

[UpperMaster]

4 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

What's a truth and what's a lie? You suck, true or false? If you don't tomorrow, what happened?

Beliefs shape reality, what you call lie is an ego-defense mechanism paradigm-lock keeping you stuck.

What does that mean bro? Ego-defense mechanism paradigm lock

[Lyubov]

No, try to never lie. I personally try to really value this but it comes at the expense of my inner child lies and insecurities, which are very familiar. Even though they are not pleasant the human condition is to often times prefer the familiar and known due to safety. you’re not perfect. So if you lie, ok don’t beat yourself up. Seek to understand why you lied and take responsibility for the consequences. Overall? No, do not lie. Live with integrity and honesty and in truth. This way you will be granted god mode and can use the law of attraction to create your authentic desires and live up to your true potential. Liars can get access to the law of attraction but they don’t get access to god mode, which is the absence of suffer. Notice I said suffering, not challenges and having to be engaged, but in god mode you are her to live in heaven on earth while also using law of attraction. It is a huge upgrade from just law of attraction. DO NOT LIE ESPECIALLY TO YOURSELF

Edited September 7, 2024 by Lyubov

[gettoefl]

Wait, how many selves do you have that you are going to lie to some of them?

And would self one know when it is being lied to by self two?

Should self two lie back because self one adopts the lying approach?

What will self three make of all this from the peanut gallery?

And wait why do I need all these different selves anyway?

Would honesty cure my multiplicity disorder and align all the apparent selves?

If I lie to me, what is the likelihood that I will be honest to you?

Who in your experience lies to their selves and is the better for it?

Or were they just lying to you about it?

[Keryo Koffa]

2 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

What does that mean bro? Ego-defense mechanism paradigm lock

Have you neglected your actualized.org vocabulary homework lately?

I'll be generous though, here's your cheat sheet of Ego-Defense Mechanisms for today.

On 8/17/2017 at 9:29 AM, AleksM said:

If you keep neglecting your homework, you're not gonna get far in this academy we have here.

To answer your question though: Your ego prescribes what is and isn't possible, it encodes it in your self-perpetuating identity and slowly convinces you that it's the only way things can be. Of course, if you were actually epistemically honest, you wouldn't even ask such questions but instead, explore and deconstruct the reasons why they're not.

Ego-Defense Mechanisms are homeostatic (just google at this point) systems of illusions, keeping you stuck.
Paradigm-Lock is when you're trapped in an overarching belief system you're interpreting the world through.

I could explain it to you in full detail, or you could just watch Leo's videos, which were specifically designed to explain it all.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Keryo Koffa

[Keryo Koffa]

The question invokes and derails us into false dichotomies.
Of course, lying (hiding things from yourself) is unhealthy.

And so the remaining discussion derails us.
Into rationalizing what is and isn't possible.
Which is social validation for playing small.
And a confirmation bias for one's identity.

Dream big and go all out, your determination creates doors where there were none.
Motivation & faith in the future open possibilities if you take responsibility for them.
Imagine your emotional state to be as malleable as a TV remote, it is if you make it so.
All that's left, is to conquer that societal conditioning, the only reason it is otherwise.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Keryo Koffa

[Joshe]

 

On 9/6/2024 at 5:58 AM, UpperMaster said:

I'm so confused on where to draw the line between when it's okay to lie to yourself, how to do so correctly for the sake of progress? 

It depends on your goals. Some truths can be detrimental. For example, pursuing enlightenment is detrimental to my financial goals, so I try to consciously avoid/disengage them. This is not me running from them but choosing to not look at them. You don't have to do anything except what you want to do. Don't conform to what other people say is valuable. You decide what is valuable and then you can know what is detrimental to your values. You can accept truths without embodying them.

2 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

I could explain it to you in full detail, or you could just watch Leo's videos, which were specifically designed to explain it all.

@Keryo Koffa I like your explanation style better. You should start a blog or something...better yet, make a public obsidian vault. Where did that spreadsheet come from? Is that your own sensemaking or a known model? 

Edited September 7, 2024 by Joshe

[UpperMaster]

@Keryo Koffa Thank you for your well written response. I have neglected many actualized.org videos as I currently feel that Im not at that stage yet, I'll get there soon hopefully. 

Yea it's becoming increasingly clear to me, especially after reading your post that I should study how my ego justifies certain world views. I am currently getting into issues of paradigm lock because I am only now learning more about the world and different idealogies. Damn, paradigm lock..I'll watch this video soon.

[Keryo Koffa]

3 hours ago, UpperMaster said:

@Keryo Koffa Thank you for your well written response. I have neglected many actualized.org videos as I currently feel that Im not at that stage yet, I'll get there soon hopefully. 

Yea it's becoming increasingly clear to me, especially after reading your post that I should study how my ego justifies certain world views. I am currently getting into issues of paradigm lock because I am only now learning more about the world and different idealogies. Damn, paradigm lock..I'll watch this video soon.

This kind of response is peak growth mindset! You're on the right track, it's easy to get lost in all of this reality around us.
The awareness of paradigms you'll get from this video is the most transformative and accelerating among Leo's content.

I was speedrunning all videos from first to last a few months ago
Among hundreds, 9 particularly resonated with lessons I needed
And 5 are older ones with extremely grounded practical messages
Visualize <Emotions> <Independent> <<Authentic>> ⬇ Growth ⬇

4 hours ago, Joshe said:

@Keryo Koffa I like your explanation style better. You should start a blog or something...better yet, make a public obsidian vault. Where did that spreadsheet come from? Is that your own sensemaking or a known model? 

I searched the forum for "Ego Defense Mechanisms". if you look closely, it's a Quote.
Though I also have many Pinterest boards full of graphs, lists, diagrams, and schemas.
Haven't considered obsidian, just working on Google Keep scaffolding right now 😁

I definitely gotta make a Journal contextualizing all my insights, that's for sure!

Edited September 7, 2024 by Keryo Koffa

[hyruga]

Most human success is self perceived success. 

Like for example, you become a manager and now you worked longer hours before that and you faced great stress and now you have to face even longer hours and stress. 

You may have become more wealthy and now drive a car. You may think you become successful but look at how much damage you have already done to your body?