Spiritual Bypassing

[Shin]

If you get triggered by watching this

You're doing it wrong.

 

 

Quote

The constant assertion of belief
Is an indication of fear.

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Shin

[Dodo]

@Shin What about the constant assertion of truth? 

Usually people believe that their belief is truth, and they assert it as such. It doesn't have to be fear, it could be simply that they don't know it's only a belief.

[Shin]

43 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

@Shin What about the constant assertion of truth? 

Usually people believe that their belief is truth, and they assert it as such. It doesn't have to be fear, it could be simply that they don't know it's only a belief.

Without beliefs, the ego can't run your life ...

Truth doesn't need to be asserted, truth is obvious when you realize it, there is no need to think about it ...

Truth is just presence/beingness/awareness, and anyone can realize that, there is no need to do anything.

@Dodoster If you believe in something you can create in this world, and if you think that's gonna help people, this is coming from Truth itself.

Again, you don't have to constantly assert it in your mind, you KNOW you have to do it, there is no doubt about it, so why thinking about it ?

Edited April 27, 2017 by Shin

[Dodo]

37 minutes ago, Shin said:

Without beliefs, the ego can't run your life ...

Truth doesn't need to be asserted, truth is obvious when you realize it, there is no need to think about it ...

Truth is just presence/beingness/awareness, and anyone can realize that, there is no need to do anything.

What if someone else sees something else as true in addition to what you said.

Like truth as a mathematical truth. Or scientific truth that if people learn would live better lives.

Obviously Im not talking about the capital T Truth here.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Dodoster

[Dodo]

44 minutes ago, Shin said:

Without beliefs, the ego can't run your life ...

Truth doesn't need to be asserted, truth is obvious when you realize it, there is no need to think about it ...

Truth is just presence/beingness/awareness, and anyone can realize that, there is no need to do anything.

Also I want to metagame you and say: With this very comment you are asserting your view of the truth 

So you see how if someone believes that what they believe is the truth,  they will assert it just like you are asserting your view of the truth.

Btw your view of the truth and my view of the truth are the same,  we're swimming in the same waters after all my brother Shin

Edited April 27, 2017 by Dodoster

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, Dodoster said:

Also I want to metagame you and say: With this very comment you are asserting your view of the truth 

I'm just talking about being still, how is that a belief ?

You don't need to believe anything to do that, just take a deep breath and ask yourself "what's gonna be my next thought" and wait.

The gap between the thoughts is what I'm talking about, this is not my view of the truth, it is truth ...

Edited April 27, 2017 by Shin

[Dodo]

13 minutes ago, Shin said:

I'm just talking about being still, how is that a belief ?

You don't need to believe anything to do that, just take a deep breath and ask yourself "what's gonna be my next thought" and wait.

The gap between the thoughts is what I'm talking about, this is not my view of the truth, it is truth ...

That's all fine and dandy,  but what im saying here is that people who believe their belief is the truth,  they will assert it with just as much conviction as you are asserting what you know to be truth.

Notice that im not arguing with what you are saying, I am trying to show you why people might assert belief without needing to involve fear in the equation.

 

 

[SOUL]

The ego constructs a paradigm in the mind from ideas and concepts that appeals to it in which those ideals it values most it believes in although this issue can arise when it assumes it's valuable to everyone.

Even the ideal I have about just being aware of being aware in the moment appeals and brings contentment to me, it's my mind's paradigm.

With every spiritual speaker from Tolle to Hedderman to the Buddha, all of them has a paradigm of the mind they believe in.

It can be robust and complicate or effortless and simple, it's not good or bad by nature, it's just the way the mind works.

 

In spirituality "true" and "truth" aren't the same thing as it is in logic or science, this is where the confusion comes in.

Spiritually "true" isn't factually accurate or logically reasonable, it's being loyal or adhering to a standard, so it's being true to our spiritual ideals.

Truth is proven by us staying true to our spiritual ideals, if we say they are one thing but do another, it's isn't a spiritual truth, it's just an idea we don't do even if we try to call it our truth.

Since spirituality and the ideals derived from it are subjective, what accounts for spiritual truth is different for every single one of us.

There is no universal spiritual truth, big T little t, that's just rhetoric, spiritual truth is as individual as each one of us in our experience.

When we act in accordance with our spiritual ideals we are being spiritually true and living our spiritual truth.

Edited April 27, 2017 by SOUL

[zazed]

1 hour ago, Dodoster said:

That's all fine and dandy,  but what im saying here is that people who believe their belief is the truth,  they will assert it with just as much conviction as you are asserting what you know to be truth.

This is true. I myself can get very defensive of myself and my beliefs at time.
But what the video and @Shin are talking about, is just being.
If you are just being in the moment, there is nothing to think about, and no truth's to defend. When there is only perception, who exists to believe something?

What Diamond is talking about, is not falling into the fallacy of "mental masturbation". This is also what Paul Hedderman talks about as the poison of spiritual books, and that spirituality can drive people insane. Mental masturbation is self-identifying with these concepts, thinking about them constantly, and in this way logically excusing yourself from real work. I am probably at times deluding myself : "I don't need meditation, i already know the theory". But if i don't need meditation anymore, i should be able to sit and just become being at any time, which incidentally IS meditation. And the fact is, it doesn't always work as i would like 
 
Another problem, all this incessant thinking about spirituality, is mental noise that is distracting me from the Now. These "positive" spiritual thoughts may make me feel "happy" and "wise", but they are an illusion and have no real value compared to true enlightenment. Getting stuck in this, is what she also warns about i suppose  
 

 

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

Even the ideal I have about just being aware of being aware in the moment appeals and brings contentment to me, it's my mind's paradigm.

I noticed the same. Were i usually dreaded and hated having to wait for something/someone, or being bored in public transportation. Lately more and more i am often looking forward to the opportunity of silence, and just feel content in being there.
It is at least helpful to have this paradigm, right?

 

 

@Shin thanks for sharing, i enjoyed her views, and probably needed them.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, zazed said:

This is true. I myself can get very defensive of myself and my beliefs at time.
But what the video and @Shin are talking about, is just being.
If you are just being in the moment, there is nothing to think about, and no truth's to defend. When there is only perception, who exists to believe something?

What Diamond is talking about, is not falling into the fallacy of "mental masturbation". This is also what Paul Hedderman talks about as the poison of spiritual books, and that spirituality can drive people insane. Mental masturbation is self-identifying with these concepts, thinking about them constantly, and in this way logically excusing yourself from real work. I am probably at times deluding myself : "I don't need meditation, i already know the theory". But if i don't need meditation anymore, i should be able to sit and just become being at any time, which incidentally IS meditation. And the fact is, it doesn't always work as i would like 
 
Another problem, all this incessant thinking about spirituality, is mental noise that is distracting me from the Now. These "positive" spiritual thoughts may make me feel "happy" and "wise", but they are an illusion and have no real value compared to true enlightenment. Getting stuck in this, is what she also warns about i suppose  
 

 

I noticed the same. Were i usually dreaded and hated having to wait for something/someone, or being bored in public transportation. Lately more and more i am often looking forward to the opportunity of silence, and just feel content in being there.
It is at least helpful to have this paradigm, right?

 

 

@Shin thanks for sharing, i enjoyed her views, and probably needed them.

I didn't watch the video, because I was at work at the time. I was only referring to the pic below. Emerald knows her stuff.

[zazed]

1 minute ago, Dodoster said:

was only referring to the pic below

i saw no pic? 

Enjoy your work time  

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, zazed said:

i saw no pic? 

Enjoy your work time  

The quote, sorry, not pic  I must be seeing things. Does this mean im enlightened now? Pls pls pls approve 

[SOUL]

@zazed  Just being aware of being aware may be a very simple paradigm to be in the mind but that is still a type of orientation of consciousness, a paradigm.

It could be said that it is exercising the least amount of mind meddling in the process of just being by avoiding the typical trappings associated with the mind.

Some may call it the most natural way to orient our consciousness, some may say it's the "true" way or it's "real" but all of those is just adding mind meddling.

If we are just being, it doesn't need an opinion of it how it relates to other ways for us to just be it.

 

 

[zazed]

24 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It could be said that it is exercising the least amount of mind meddling in the process of just being by avoiding the typical trappings associated with the mind.

I agree. Thinking back now on meditation i did earlier. It's like walking tip toed on your socks, cause you don't wanna wake anyone at night.
Tho not entirely accurate. But it's a strange sensation, of not "touching" the mind, or not "waking" the mind up, while being fully conscious. The mind has every intention to spring up, and start to analyse that situation of being.  

It is a thoughtless awareness, i call it just being. 
 

24 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Some may call it the most natural way to orient our consciousness, some may say it's the "true" way or it's "real" but all of those is just adding mind meddling.

You are fully correct. Words or thoughts don't exist at that point, how can you name it? I suppose it can be called pleasant, or being at peace. But even that doesn't describe what it is. The mind trying to understand it, to define it, is perhaps even poisonous to it.

The best description is "being".
All spiritual teaching can be condensed to that word. But it's not very helpful to someone who knows nothing about it  

 

@SOUL exactly, and we'll speak thousands of words more on these forums.

Edited April 27, 2017 by zazed

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, zazed said:

All spiritual teaching can be condensed to that word. But it's not very helpful to someone who knows nothing about it

Trillions of words are spoken if not more on the subject of spirituality and not one of them is useful in being.

The words can be of use in explaining how to get the mind out of the way of being but they just as easily wind up placing more mind in the way of being.