How To Recognize Enlightened People

[Ella90]

So this question is bothering me since i've spent all my last weekend listening to Leo's videos about enlightenment. Who is enlightened? Would I know to recognize an enlightened person?

I started wondering if big figures i'm inspired by are enlightened people, like Tony Robbins?

Was socrates enlightened?

Any ways another thing, Leo was talking about loosing your self and actually stop being selfish. But is it still having basic needs and wants for your own body is considered being selfish? And if "I" don't "need" actually nothing isn't its true for the other side? that this side is "nothing" itself? therefore giving to others is actually pointless? What are the boundaries?

[jjer94]

You can never actually tell who is enlightened. You can only assume they are by the way they speak about it, their behaviors, outlooks, etc. 

For all you know, enlightenment could be some made-up thing and everyone's playing a joke on you! But in my opinion, if thousands and thousands claim to be it and all the teachings are pointing to something, I think it's worth checking out. 

The enlightened usually don't like to divulge that they're enlightened. And quite frankly, does it matter whether someone's enlightened as long as their teachings are successfully pointing students in the right direction?

Somebody came up to me with a question. What do you think the question was? He asked me, “Are you enlightened?” What do you think my answer was? What does it matter! You want a better answer? My answer would be: “How would I know? How would you know? What does it matter?” You know something? If you want anything too badly, you’re in big trouble. You know something else? If I were enlightened and you listened to me because I was enlightened, then you’re in big trouble. Are you ready to be brainwashed by someone who’s enlightened? You can be brainwashed by anybody, you know. What does it matter whether someone’s enlightened or not? But see, we want to lean on someone, don’t we? We want to lean on anybody we think has arrived. We love to hear that people have arrived. It gives us hope, doesn’t it? What do you want to hope for? Isn’t that another form of desire? -- Tony de Mello

Socrates may have been enlightened. Tony Robbins? Probably not. Common qualities of the enlightened include but are not limited to: humility, authenticity, ordinariness, wisdom (knowing that they know nothing), and compassion.

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But is it still having basic needs and wants for your own body is considered being selfish?

There can still be basic needs and wants for your body even without a self. Body and self are two different entities. You can confirm that in your direct experience. 

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 therefore giving to others is actually pointless?

I hate to break it to you, but everything is pointless. Don't take my word for it though; you can also confirm that in your direct experience.

If you're interested in taking the plunge into enlightenment work, I suggest checking out Leo's book list. He has tons of books that can clear up your confusion about all of this. 

Cheers!

[Ella90]

Thank you. That answers satisfied my needs to know for right now for that i am.

Yes i got the pointless point before... at least i thought so, i guess it was an understanding with a missing angle

I will check it! I think it's the only thing of him I haven't checked yet.

Again thank you

Cheers friend

 

[Dhana Choko]

As a general rule I would say that the more the person or teacher teaches about how to attain things in this world, the less likely they are enlightened

[Ella90]

So you suggest that actually Leo doesn't know what he talks about? Cause I kinda of see actualized.org a forum of multiple suggestions on how to attain things/ourselves in this world. In a positive way I guees. but still.

And we still try to attain peace, true happiness and ease with ourselves, and that is what I see the "enlightened" once try to teach us to accomplish.

see? those things confuse me

[Dhana Choko]

It is very good that you are confused  There is a reason for it. 

[Ella90]

i can't agree more. And now I know I am not alone with this. I struggeled a hell of a lot with the question "for what" for the last 5 years, it was preventing me doing stuff. Now I know I don't know and it doesn't matter. I believe I will find peace one day. That makes me happy.

[Rufus]

Enlightenment is an ugly word to utter, and it is an ugly question to ask somebody, unfortunately, spiritual teachers needed to give it a name to make it easy for their students to learn, unfortunately, this word became so popular and it sneaked outside of the teaching rooms, many phoney people will misuse this word to egoistically show how superior they are to other people around them.
I don't think It's anybody's business to think who's enlightened and who's not, this is an inner experience that you will not understand until you go through.
Enlightened people will not come and tell you they are enlightened, and if you ask them they will probably deny this accusation even if they know it deep in their hearts, they are probably less interested in enlightenment than you do.

Now do you want to know who's enlightened around you so you can benefit your awakening someday when you are willing? you must keep your mouth shut at first, keep what you know about them for yourself, and look at your friends, acquaintances or celebrities that happened to exist in your life, look at these few people who are different, mostly they are people who don't need so much people and bullshit around them to feel complete, they feel so intelligent even if they don't speak often, they appear to you wiser and deeper than you can understand, they are so honest, and mostly happy and blissful, their presence around you feels nice and good even if they don't know you well and even if they don't give a damn about entertaining you, they are so wise that they are gonna shake your existence with their words, arts, novels, speeches,  movies, music, scientific discoveries, and all their actions, they will appeal to you in some manner even if they say everything that goes against everything you ever learned and believed and afraid to hear. they speak beyond the boundaries of religion, culture, Race, patriotism, Age, Family, and social standards, their actions makes sense to you but your ego is so afraid to admit it.
These people can be as funny as Jim Carry and as calm as Echart Tolle.

If you are meant to chase enlightenment during your life, you are so lucky to have just one of these people in your life, regardless of how badly these people can make your ego feel, something deep in you is still curious to know more about them and what they know, and it will feel so so so wrong if you ever think about harming them or disrespecting them.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Rufus

[Ella90]

I think you understood my question all wrong. Or at least my intentions. I came from a place of trying to understand the acts and the form of life that a person of kind have. My curiosity is basically based on that that it is a new thing i am trying to figure out. Never crossed my mind to go and ask nobody directly. Therefor i find it here an appropriate platform for that kind of question cause i am wondering about people from back days in history and now days. My observation now is on full mode and i'm damn sure not going to "spread the word" on a topic I can't still fully understand. As the great Charlie Munger said “I never allow myself to have an opinion on anything that I don't know the other side's argument better than they do" , which I wonder if he is "the word you can't say" too.

Thank you for your comment.

[Rufus]

1 hour ago, Ella90 said:

I think you understood my question all wrong. Or at least my intentions. I came from a place of trying to understand the acts and the form of life that a person of kind have. My curiosity is basically based on that that it is a new thing i am trying to figure out. Never crossed my mind to go and ask nobody directly. Therefor i find it here an appropriate platform for that kind of question cause i am wondering about people from back days in history and now days. My observation now is on full mode and i'm damn sure not going to "spread the word" on a topic I can't still fully understand. As the great Charlie Munger said “I never allow myself to have an opinion on anything that I don't know the other side's argument better than they do" , which I wonder if he is "the word you can't say" too.

Thank you for your comment.

10

Sorry I didn't read your question carefully, 100% my negligence. 

However, I wasn't speaking about you in specific, I generalized to the average readers by using the term (You), sorry If this is not the best way to talk about it, I'm still an unsocial beginner who's exploring the effect of words

 

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Any ways another thing, Leo was talking about loosing your self and actually stop being selfish. But is it still having basic needs and wants for your own body is considered being selfish? And if "I" don't "need" actually nothing isn't its true for the other side? that this side is "nothing" itself? therefore giving to others is actually pointless? What are the boundaries?

3

The Word "Nothing" in Leo's terms was meant for the Ego, the self-image, the ego is simply your name and all the non-physical mental concepts associated with your name, but the body is physically still there, the body is real at least to our current level of perception.  you need to develop love and compassion towards your body and identity the same way you love other people and human beings and living creatures around you.. so doing what your body needs is NOT selfish, as long as it's coming from a higher consciousness, it is basic survival but enlightened people are surviving consciously. you will need to survive the same way the people you care about needs it.

Leo is showing the extreme of self destruction, but if you entirely kill your ego, you will die! you simply cannot, but you can work on yourself to stop identifying yourself using the mind, and your can work in your life to make it simple by minimizing your obligations, treating your personal problems and unfinished business, and be honest, kind and loving.. and when your ego shrink to the minimal survival needs, you will gradually see the light ;).

Regarding taking care of the body, I just commented about this in another thread regarding if Enlightened people has survival instincts, I will copy/paste:
"Enlightened people do have thoughts and emotions such like anybody, they are driving a human body's as well, don't forget that :), a human body has needs, emotional needs, sexual needs, survival needs.. etc, such like everybody else. they often develop further sensitivity in emotions and perception and probably more thoughts than normal people, especially curious thoughts regarding life and what's beyond, but the thing is, they don't let the mind and emotion control their bodies. thoughts and emotions come and go, they are visitors, they feel it, they enjoy it, they examine it, if they sense something  unpleasant they take it as a sign that a conscious action is needed, they do not fall into a slave reaction, they do what's needed to be done without the enslavement of body, ego and emotion.
Enlightened beings care about their survival out of Love and compassion towards their egos and their bodies, the same way they love everybody, and the same way they love life and everything around them."

Best,

Edited February 15, 2016 by Rufus

[Ella90]

Very well. Keep exploring, you're words were meaningful to me  as I guess they would be also meaningful to others, so keep exploring. Thank you. You've made it very clear with you're response about the body.

I hope to see the light ASAP  I will keep exploring and investigating myself.

Best  @Rufus

[Sen]

On 14.02.2016 at 0:06 AM, Ella90 said:

Any ways another thing, Leo was talking about loosing your self and actually stop being selfish. But is it still having basic needs and wants for your own body is considered being selfish? And if "I" don't "need" actually nothing isn't its true for the other side? that this side is "nothing" itself? therefore giving to others is actually pointless? What are the boundaries?

Life works driven by desire. Having desires is not a bad thing, it is natural. The problem arises when someone doesn't discern between the ego desires and desires rooted in truth or higher self desires. I'll try to explain my perspective on this by an example: wanting a car because you need it to go to work is a desire rooted in truth while wanting a car because your neighbor or colleague has a car is a ego driven desire. Another example that comes to mind now would be with relationships, wanting a relationship in order to grow yourself in love is a desire rooted in truth while wanting a relationship  in order to not be single or in order to show off is a ego driven desire.

[Emerald]

On February 14, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Ella90 said:

So this question is bothering me since i've spent all my last weekend listening to Leo's videos about enlightenment. Who is enlightened? Would I know to recognize an enlightened person?

I started wondering if big figures i'm inspired by are enlightened people, like Tony Robbins?

Was socrates enlightened?

Any ways another thing, Leo was talking about loosing your self and actually stop being selfish. But is it still having basic needs and wants for your own body is considered being selfish? And if "I" don't "need" actually nothing isn't its true for the other side? that this side is "nothing" itself? therefore giving to others is actually pointless? What are the boundaries?

There is no clear way to tell. But it is important to ask yourself why you'd want to know in the first place. It can illuminate to you your beliefs and assumptions about enlightenment and value, which will better enable you to remove these barriers.

[DanoDMano]

@Ella90  My opinion is this. We are all enlightened. The problem comes from the majority of us being unaware of this fact, and oblivious to it's potential advantages it will have on our life. 

Perhaps your question should be, "Who is truly in search of enlightenment?" So whether they have found it or not is meaningless. Just that fact that they are "aware" and in search of "truth" should be enough to help you observe and listen to what they have to share with you in your journey of discovery. Just because we may not be on top of the mountain doesn't mean we can't support each other on our way up .    

[Leo Gura]

I dunno about Socrates, but Tony Robbins is definitely NOT enlightened. He seems quite addicted to ego.

I doubt Socrates was enlightened, despite him saying, "The only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing."

The only enlightened ancient Greek I know is Heraclitus. If you read his writing, you clearly see that he was in a class all by himself. His statements are refreshingly Zen-like and powerful.

While you can't know for sure who is or isn't enlightened, in practice it's pretty easy to tell once you've studied enlightenment long enough. I can usually tell from hearing just one or two sentences if the teacher has a grasp of enlightenment. It just becomes very obvious. It's a handy skill to have actually, because it lets you sort the wheat from the chaff very quickly. I can know in just a few minutes that Tony Robbins will not teach me the deepest truths of life. His teachings are useful, but they are not existentially deep.

[Guest]

Probably easy to tell from the words that one speaks if one is far along the path or not.

Edit: see comment below this

Edited February 17, 2016 by tryingforfreedom

[ayokolomo]

Dont admire the finger pointing to the moon.  Focus your attention towards the moon.

Edited February 17, 2016 by ayokolomo

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Makis said:

Hey Leo. Some people claim that Plato was enlightened and his Allegory of the Cave is an allegory for enlightenment. 

I doubt it. The Allegory Of The Cave is great, but it could be describing the general ignorance of the masses, which is exists aside from enlightenment.

Plato doesn't write like an enlightened person. He's very much lost in concepts and his own ideas.

[Amplituda]

Can One even define in words what it means to be enlightened? If yes, let's entertainment continue... but if not, how can something without meaning or definition be discussed on the forum?

 

[Khin]

@Amplituda LOL... How about define No-self.