The Relationship Between Time and Eternity

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Oh yeah, lets see you go to work knowing you're God. Let's see you get jealous, angry frustrated, make money to eat etcetc. Why do you think some lose the motivation to go on after they've awakened to their true nature. 

That's just speculation, we don't really know if we ever truly awaken to our real nature. For all we know, what we consider "awakening" could just be another layer of the illusion. It’s possible that we may never fully grasp the absolute truth, and what we experience as "enlightenment" could still be filtered through the limitations of human perception.

[Princess Arabia]

22 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

That's just speculation, we don't really know if we ever truly awaken to our real nature. For all we know, what we consider "awakening" could just be another layer of the illusion. It’s possible that we may never fully grasp the absolute truth, and what we experience as "enlightenment" could still be filtered through the limitations of human perception.

We can never fully grasp the Absolute because whatever we're grasping with is also the Absolute, so that's true. I agree with the rest also. I used to be the anti-enlightenment one here and spoke against it, but now to me it doesn't even matter if it's a thing or not in the highest sense. I realize it doesn't even matter because talking about this stuff is not enlightenment itself and is all conceptual. 

I do agree that it's all filtered through the human limited perception and for all I'm concerned it's all true, so why argue about it, true in the relative sense.

[Sandroew]

As long as you pose a question, ultimately you will always be misled. Truth happens from within.

What a cringe answer i just gave you bro. But this is all just for entertainment purposes only.

I would describe creation as the film on the screen of eternal consciousness.

[Spiritual Warfare]

6 hours ago, Sandroew said:

As long as you pose a question, ultimately you will always be misled. Truth happens from within.

What a cringe answer i just gave you bro. But this is all just for entertainment purposes only.

I would describe creation as the film on the screen of eternal consciousness.

👍 The movie is terrible, it completely misses the mark. I’d rather watch paint dry; at least that has some suspense!

[Leo Gura]

Change and motion is no way contradicts Eternity.

Time is not needed for change or motion.

Motion happens within Eternity and time is an overlay.

Edited September 6 by Leo Gura

[Keryo Koffa]

That's the same part I always get flabbergasted by. Time = Motion for me

But apparently, when people say time, they mean measuring constructs

Which duh, are imaginary, time is relative and change is non-linear

[Leo Gura]

Time is not measuring constructs. Time is an aspect of your consciousness.

[Spiritual Warfare]

@Leo GuraIf time is an aspect of our consciousness and not a measurable construct, why do we experience it so consistently across different people and events? Wouldn't time feel more subjective if it were purely tied to consciousness?

 

 

[Keryo Koffa]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Time is not measuring constructs. Time is an aspect of your consciousness.

This leaves me with:

1. God becomes everything, and the nature of that something progresses its local experience automatically
2. God is always exploring its infinite depth, I'd consider the very evolution of its gestalt as time passing

• Is it a canvas to measure and navigate change, another dimension of association to construct experience?

I've always seen time as the ability for the experience to change and tell the difference
But of course that change may be no different from navigating a spatial dimension
A layer on top, to combine and synchronize different figments of experience...

I'll have to think about it some more

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall thanks so much for clarifying this infinity expansion theory 

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Why would infinite experiences lead to cosmic horror? Could it not be possible that an eternal God, being beyond human emotions, transcends concepts like boredom, horror, or desire?

16 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

 

Because if this god "wants" something, like having adventures, it's a god with bias, with desire, it's "someone", then the eternity is absolute existential horror. But it's impossible, The absolute isn't someone, doesn't want things , otherwise it would be relative, it's obvious. 

14 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

You mention that reality is absolute, and that there are infinite manifestations of that infinite absolute. How can these manifestations exist without implying some form of change or time, which contradicts the nature of an unchanging absolute?

Because the absolute contains infinite changes, then it's immutable, it's impossible to understand the infinity, you could think: well, infinity means that never ends, then it's increasing in volume. Increasing from what point? If it never have begun....the point is that all changes are nothing because are infinite. Appearances. The point is realizing the absolute, then realize the unreality of the appearance. It's real because it's the absolute, but as appearance are like holograms, one is the same than another, a proton is the same than a universe. 

14 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Assuming that God would eventually fall into cosmic horror after experiencing infinite human lives projects human limitations onto an infinite being. God, as the absolute, would not be bound by emotions like boredom or despair. The concepts of "fun" or "horror" may not apply to such a being at all.

Yeah because God doesn't want nothing, god exists, it's the reality, it's inevitable. Then god doesn't get bored, because it's nothing personal who can be bored, or fun. 

 

14 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

an eternal God has already experienced infinite adventures, wouldn’t that imply that time itself is real for God? How can an eternal being, which exists outside of time, experience anything sequentially, including infinite adventures?

Time is inside the absolute, like everything else. The absolute is outside of time, of change and everything else, it's just absolute. The absolute is not experiencing nothing, experience happens inside the absolute, as everything else. It's not like a head who changes vision, it's the whole thing. 

It seems that absolute reality inherently entails infinite relative aspects. It is an inevitable consequence, and everything relative is inevitably cyclical, and inevitably interconnected infinitely an infinitely intelligent and therefore perfect. perfect and existing are synonyms.

Therefore the immutable absolute contains infinite cycles that begin and end within each other to infinity in all directions and dimensions, but all of them are just images, all of them are really the absolute. This is a natural phenomenon, not an entity that does things, it is something inevitable, not a deliberate creation for a reason. It's impossible that the absolute doesn't contain infinite relative povs just because it's absolute. 

Edited September 6 by Breakingthewall

[Spiritual Warfare]

@Breakingthewall 

How can the absolute contain the relative if the absolute is, by definition, unchanging? Since the absolute is unchanging, how can it then encompass changing and cyclical aspects?

How can we understand causes and effects within the relative world if the absolute is not a conscious entity that acts? Is it possible for there to be causality in the relative that does not result from an active will?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

@Breakingthewall 

How can the absolute contain the relative if the absolute is, by definition, unchanging? Since the absolute is unchanging, how can it then encompass changing and cyclical aspects?

How can we understand causes and effects within the relative world if the absolute is not a conscious entity that acts? Is it possible for there to be causality in the relative that does not result from an active will?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because anything cyclical is finite, and something finite in comparison with infinity is zero. Then, it's something apparent, but ultimately not real. For example your experience, seems something concrete and real, but if there are others infinite experiences, your experience reveals as empty, it's nothing in the general scheme, absolutely zero. Then, if the absolute encompass infinite changes, it's immutable, because every one of that changes are nothing, just appearances. 

Cause and effect, and conciousness that acts are relative. Are events that happens in the absolute, and as are unlimited they doesn't mean nothing. The point of the absolute is that nothing means nothing, then a will that points to nothing is nothing, just an appearance. At the end only the absolute is real, because in the case of infinity, everything is infinite, finitude is an illusion, an appearance, then you transcend the appearance and realize the absolute, that is the only reality. The ego absolutely hates it, that's why it's very difficult to realize. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because anything cyclical is finite, and something finite in comparison with infinity is zero. Then, it's something apparent, but ultimately not real. For example your experience, seems something concrete and real, but if there are others infinite experiences, your experience reveals as empty, it's nothing in the general scheme, absolutely zero. Then, if the absolute encompass infinite changes, it's immutable, because every one of that changes are nothing, just appearances. 

Cause and effect, and conciousness that acts are relative. Are events that happens in the absolute, and as are unlimited they doesn't mean nothing. The point of the absolute is that nothing means nothing, then a will that points to nothing is nothing, just an appearance. At the end only the absolute is real, because in the case of infinity, everything is infinite, finitude is an illusion, an appearance, then you transcend the appearance and realize the absolute, that is the only reality. The ego absolutely hates it, that's why it's very difficult to realize. 

How do we differentiate between what is truly real and what is merely an appearance? If all experiences are ultimately empty when compared to the absolute, what criteria can we use to evaluate the significance of individual experiences? If consciousness is a relative phenomenon and its actions are merely appearances, what role does consciousness play in our understanding of reality? Is there a place for genuine agency or intentionality within a framework that emphasizes the emptiness of individual experiences?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

How do we differentiate between what is truly real and what is merely an appearance?

Everything is both, appearance is the form, reality is the essence then just trascending the form. The form is real too, as an appearance. intricate and infinitely interconnected. It is not something, let's say despicable, it is simply meaningless, without any ultimate meaning except that it exists, but this "meaning" is everything, is the absolute.

8 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

what criteria can we use to evaluate the significance of individual experiences?

Same , the only significance is that they exist. 

 

8 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

If consciousness is a relative phenomenon and its actions are merely appearances, what role does consciousness play in our understanding of reality?

As humans, if we don't understand the reality we are lost in the form and we suffer, in more or less extent. The understanding is just a mean to solve a labyrinth, ultimately understanding is relative, something relative to the human condition to clarify a mess. When the mess is clarified, the absolute is obvious. Seems that the intelligence tends in that direction, same than tends to  evolution or creation of complex molecules or anything else. Relative movements that happens inevitably. Very beautiful if you appreciate them, but nothing else. 

8 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Is there a place for genuine agency or intentionality within a framework that emphasizes the emptiness of individual experiences?

Yeah, the movement has to move, the things have to happen, the will has to follow a path, the flow has to flow, then as much as you can be one with the movement, better, in the sense of less suffering and more beauty. Seems that human condition is distorted by default and has to equalize 

Edited September 6 by Breakingthewall

[Spiritual Warfare]

24 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Everything is both, appearance is the form, reality is the essence then just trascending the form. The form is real too, as an appearance. intricate and infinitely interconnected. It is not something, let's say despicable, it is simply meaningless, without any ultimate meaning except that it exists, but this "meaning" is everything, is the absolute.

Same , the only significance is that they exist. 

 

As humans, if we don't understand the reality we are lost in the form and we suffer, in more or less extent. Conciousness is not relative, is absolute, as intelligence, are the same, because they are not limited, what is relative is the form of which consciousness is aware, or the form that consciousness takes. The understanding is just a mean to solve a labyrinth, ultimately understanding is relative, something relative to the human condition to clarify a mess. When the mess is clarified, the absolute is obvious. Seems that the intelligence tends in that direction, same than tends to  evolution or creation of complex molecules or anything else. Relative movements that happens inevitably. Very beautiful if you appreciate them, but nothing else. 

Yeah, the movement has to move, the things have to happen, the will has to follow a path, the flow has to flow, then as much as you can be one with the movement, better, in the sense of less suffering and more beauty. Seems that human condition is distorted by default and has to equalize 

Thank you!

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

As humans, if we don't understand the reality we are lost in the form and we suffer, in more or less extent. Conciousness is not relative, is absolute, as intelligence, are the same, because they are not limited, what is relative is the form of which consciousness is aware, or the form that consciousness takes. The understanding is just a mean to solve a labyrinth, ultimately understanding is relative, something relative to the human condition to clarify a mess. When the mess is clarified, the absolute is obvious. Seems that the intelligence tends in that direction, same than tends to  evolution or creation of complex molecules or anything else. Relative movements that happens inevitably. Very beautiful if you appreciate them, but nothing else. 

All of this sounds good and mighty and well put  but it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo that the mind concocted up to make sense of what's happening, to make sense of consciousness and it's features but it's still dualistic if something is aware of something else, how can that be if its all one, all connected and no separation. So it's all within the dream of separation and nothing wrong with that but it needs to be clarified and labeled as so, 

Edited September 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, the movement has to move, the things have to happen, the will has to follow a path, the flow has to flow, then as much as you can be one with the movement, better, in the sense of less suffering and more beauty. Seems that human condition is distorted by default and has to equalize 

How do you know that anything is actually moving and that it's not just an appearance. How can you say "as much as you can be one with the movement", then say it's all one and speak about the Absolute. Doesn't that imply we're already implicitly one with the movement. We also say suffering is in the mind and it's an illusion, but you say if we can become one with the movement less suffering will take place. Is that one illusion (be one with the movement) making another illusion disappear (suffering). You see, it all sounds good but doesn't fit into the grand scheme of things and what doesn't fit into the grand scheme of things is to expect you'll say something that will. I realize nothing really fits into the grand scheme of things because there's nothing to fit into Infinity. So it's a matter of what is the mind is making sense of. 

Edited September 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

the will has to follow a path,

Time and space are illusory - what path.

[Breakingthewall]

25 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Time and space are illusory - what path.

Time is relative, then the relative path. You can say that about nothing is happening etc, but relatively something is happening. You can smash all your fingers with a hammer and say that nothing is happening if you want 

 

31 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

We also say suffering is in the mind and it's an illusion, but you say if we can become one with the movement less suffering will take place. Is that one illusion (be one with the movement) making another illusion disappear (suffering

Yes, an illusion from the absolute perspective. It's like saying that in hunger is an illusion, because it's relative, then why to eat, if it's another illusion. Illusion is the meaning, but the existence is absolute. You exist, you are a relative movement, both are true. The relative movement means nothing, but can't stop, then move, and that's it. 

31 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

How do you know that anything is actually moving and that it's not just an appearance.

An appearance is moving apparently, if you prefer . From an absolute perspective, nothing happens, but we are the relative movement. This conversation is relative movement. The point here, the spiritual work, is recognize the relative and realize the absolute. Why? For the same reason that anything else happens, because it's happening, can't stop 

Edited September 6 by Breakingthewall