The Relationship Between Time and Eternity

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

If everything is an empty hologram and the absolute always shines beneath appearances, how can we reconcile the profound sense of horror with the light of existence in our hearts?

 

The horror and everything else are the empty hologram, just shapes. It's impossible to see from the relative perspective, only from the absolute perspective, and reach the absolute perspective is difficult, it's what they call enlightenment. 

 

Imagine an infinite line. What would be the position of a point on that line? If that point moves, would it really be moving? with respect to what? to other points that in turn move without reference? There is no beginning or end, one place is the same as another, therefore the movement is only apparent, it is not real, it does not go anywhere. This is reality, everything that seems to happen is just appearance, the only thing truly real is infinity itself, and that is you. This infinity is immutable because it is not something that is advancing or expanding. To expand it should be finite, and it is not, it is already total.

[Spiritual Warfare]

24 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

I think there's two ways to think about time. The conventional way is "block time", where events are ordered in a linear way like on a calendar. The other is "instantaneous time", where reality changes moment to moment. The two are quite different.

Eternity would then be an infinite extension of block time. Block time has the sense of being permanent and unchanging, once events have happened they are forever fixed and immutable. You could even imagine events in the future already being pre-determined as a consequence of events in the past.

Instantaneous time would be like a very thin sliver of block time. Nothing is fixed or remembered, as soon as something happens it's forgotten and there is no pre-determined future. Since there is no block there is no past or future, just now. 

In a way the two are opposites of each other, block time is unchanging and eternal, instantaneous time is always changing and ephemeral.

In my experience instantaneous time seems to be the correct interpretation and block time is a fantasy. Which if true, would mean that transformation is a feature of reality: time is presupposed from the existence of transformation.

If we assume that instantaneous time is the correct interpretation, how do we explain our experience of memories and continuity? Are memories an illusion or a function of consciousness adapting to a constantly changing reality?

[Spiritual Warfare]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The horror and everything else are the empty hologram, just shapes. It's impossible to see from the relative perspective, only from the absolute perspective, and reach the absolute perspective is difficult, it's what they call enlightenment. 

 

Imagine an infinite line. What would be the position of a point on that line? If that point moves, would it really be moving? with respect to what? to other points that in turn move without reference? There is no beginning or end, one place is the same as another, therefore the movement is only apparent, it is not real, it does not go anywhere. This is reality, everything that seems to happen is just appearance, the only thing truly real is infinity itself, and that is you. This infinity is immutable because it is not something that is advancing or expanding. To expand it should be finite, and it is not, it is already total.

If the infinite is the only true existence, what then is the purpose of our experience of the relative and ever-changing? Does it hold any inherent meaning, or is it merely a means to attain greater insight? Could it be that the transient nature of our experiences serves as a catalyst for growth and understanding, allowing us to explore the infinite through the lens of the finite?

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

If the infinite is the only true existence, what then is the purpose of our experience of the relative and ever-changing? Does it hold any inherent meaning, or is it merely a means to attain greater insight? Could it be that the transient nature of our experiences serves as a catalyst for growth and understanding, allowing us to explore the infinite through the lens of the finite?

I'd say that no. the infinite cannot grow or increase in understanding, nor go in any direction. This would imply that it goes from one point to another, and that is not the case, it is not increasing, since it has never started, therefore it cannot advance. Everything that advances does so from a starting point, if there is no such point, there is no progress.

I would say that all the apparent movement of infinity is inevitable due to the very nature of infinity. Having no limits, it flows on itself without pause, and this flow is apparent existence that is organized in a perfect way given the inevitable infinite intelligence of the infinite, but this is only speculation  considering things that are impossible, such as moving forward or wanting something. Infinity is not someone who desires things or plays, it is an inevitable natural phenomenon

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 hour ago, LastThursday said:

I think there's two ways to think about time. The conventional way is "block time", where events are ordered in a linear way like on a calendar. The other is "instantaneous time", where reality changes moment to moment. The two are quite different.

Eternity would then be an infinite extension of block time. Block time has the sense of being permanent and unchanging, once events have happened they are forever fixed and immutable. You could even imagine events in the future already being pre-determined as a consequence of events in the past.

Instantaneous time would be like a very thin sliver of block time. Nothing is fixed or remembered, as soon as something happens it's forgotten and there is no pre-determined future. Since there is no block there is no past or future, just now. 

In a way the two are opposites of each other, block time is unchanging and eternal, instantaneous time is always changing and ephemeral.

In my experience instantaneous time seems to be the correct interpretation and block time is a fantasy. Which if true, would mean that transformation is a feature of reality: time is presupposed from the existence of transformation.

Is infinity conscious? Does it exist merely as a natural force, lacking awareness, or could it possess some form of intelligence or intention? If infinity is genuinely infinite, it cannot advance in any direction.

 

 

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall if there exist an Infinity then this infinity must also expand infinitely otherwise it's not infinite.

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Breakingthewall if there exist an Infinity then this infinity must also expand infinitely otherwise it's not infinite.

No, infinite is already expanded infinitely, it's impossible to understand infinite, that's the main point. Absolutely impossible to imagine or making a mental representation, nothing is more alien to the finite mind than infinity. 

The only thing that we can do Is become infinite, enlightenment. It's very twisted process because the mind has to move out, and even that there are a lot of energetic barriers that prevents it. The absolute is not in movement, even it contains all possible movement . The first time that you realize the absolute it's the most horrible ever, because you realize that you are trapped in the eternity, without the slightest possibility of scape or movement, you are alone, still, immutable, in the eternity. There are not words to describe that horror. But if you face it, you realize one thing: you ve not bottom. In one instant, that perspective changes and you realize that you are absolutely free, and your joy is total. But first you have to realize the essential immutable quality of the absolute 

Edited September 5 by Breakingthewall

[Spiritual Warfare]

@OBEler @Breakingthewall 

If something is truly infinite, it must have the capacity to expand infinitely. Otherwise, it would contradict the very definition of being infinite. Consider the universe: if it is infinite, it can continue to expand without end. Similarly, when we think of infinity in mathematics, such as infinite series or sets, these too must be able to grow without bounds to truly be considered infinite.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

@OBEler @Breakingthewall 

If something is truly infinite, it must have the capacity to expand infinitely. Otherwise, it would contradict the very definition of being infinite. Consider the universe: if it is infinite, it can continue to expand without end. Similarly, when we think of infinity in mathematics, such as infinite series or sets, these too must be able to grow without bounds to truly be considered infinite.

If it's growing, it's because it's still finite. If it's already infinite, how could it grow? You are thinking in the numbers, well, they can expand infinitely right? No, it's you who can follow them infinitely putting one after other, but the numbers are already infinitely expanded. It's not an exact example because the numbers are just a concept, but more or less. You mean, I'm in the number 100, then 101, etc, and I could follow them infinitely. Well, now they aren't infinite, they are just 101, with infinite potential. The real infinity is not that, it's already total, it didn't begin in the one in a given moment and now it's in the 101, it never have begun, it's total always 

[Spiritual Warfare]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If it's growing, it's because it's still finite. If it's already infinite, how could it grow? You are thinking in the numbers, well, they can expand infinitely right? No, it's you who can follow them infinitely putting one after other, but the numbers are already infinitely expanded. It's not an exact example because the numbers are just a concept, but more or less. You mean, I'm in the number 100, then 101, etc, and I could follow them infinitely. Well, now they aren't infinite, they are just 101, with infinite potential. The real infinity is not that, it's already total, it didn't begin in the one in a given moment and now it's in the 101, it never have begun, it's total always 

You are absolutely right; I wasn't thinking clearly. Thanks for the reminder, and those are excellent points, by the way

[Loveeee]

Infinity 

Eternity is temporal infinity

[Loveeee]

The Relationship Between Time and Eternity is Infinity

Eternity is temporal infinity 

[Spiritual Warfare]

4 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

The Relationship Between Time and Eternity is Infinity

Eternity is temporal infinity 

Can we genuinely equate the two, or do they embody different principles? Infinity suggests an unbounded quantity, while eternity might imply a qualitative state that transcends the mere accumulation of moments. 

 

 

 

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

If we assume that instantaneous time is the correct interpretation, how do we explain our experience of memories and continuity? Are memories an illusion or a function of consciousness adapting to a constantly changing reality?

Instantaneous time collapses everything into the now. Transformation happens at different rates for different things in the world. So we can reconstruct a block time from the things in the world which haven't changed much - continuity. Or we can use logical reasoning to try and deduce that "things must have been that way for this to be true". We can look at an old house and say it was built in such and such a year and imagine its construction. Things stay consistent and logical, because transformation itself isn't random, it's orderly, but it is mostly uni-directional: sometimes it isn't possible to reconstruct a definite past.

In effect what's happening is that events are smeared around space or affect the configuration of things, sometimes more and more as time passes, for example the butterfly effect.

Memories are no different. If you clap in a cave you'll hear echoes for a long time. A memory is just like an echo, in effect it is part of the original event still happening.

Edited September 5 by LastThursday

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Is infinity conscious? Does it exist merely as a natural force, lacking awareness, or could it possess some form of intelligence or intention? If infinity is genuinely infinite, it cannot advance in any direction.

It's a fallacy to think that an infinity contains everything possible. An infinity could still have room to manoeuvre and still be infinity. I think the question should be flipped on its head: should consciousness be infinite? You can look at infinity as either a process; something that could potentially carry on without end. Or you can see it as something with unbounded attributes. A circle has a finite radius and area, but there is no restriction against how many times you can go around its perimeter: a circle contains an infinity within it.

In that sense, it would be very easy for consciousness to contain infinities. And, consciousness appears to carry on constantly without break, so there's another potential infinity. And it seems that we can explore consciousness without end. For consciousness to be finite in all ways, it would have to be bounded by something else that isn't consciousness.

[Spiritual Warfare]

5 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Instantaneous time collapses everything into the now. Transformation happens at different rates for different things in the world. So we can reconstruct a block time from the things in the world which haven't changed much - continuity. Or we can use logical reasoning to try and deduce that "things must have been that way for this to be true". We can look at an old house and say it was built in such and such a year and imagine its construction. Things stay consistent and logical, because transformation itself isn't random, it's orderly, but it is mostly uni-directional: sometimes it isn't possible to reconstruction a definite past.

In effect what's happening is that events are smeared around space or affect the configuration of things, sometimes more and more as time passes, for example the butterfly effect.

Memories are no different. If you clap in a cave you'll hear echoes for a long time. A memory is just like an echo, in effect it is part of the original event still happening.

Thank you for the insightful response! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Loveeee]

49 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

Infinity suggests an unbounded quantity

The true meaning of infinity is non-duality, they're synonymous

[Spiritual Warfare]

6 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

It's a fallacy to think that an infinity contains everything possible. An infinity could still have room to manoeuvre and still be infinity. I think the question should be flipped on its head: should consciousness be infinite? You can look at infinity as either a process; something that could potentially carry on without end. Or you can see it as something with unbounded attributes. A circle has a finite radius and area, but there is no restriction against how many times you can go around its perimeter: a circle contains an infinity within it.

In that sense, it would be very easy for consciousness to contain infinities. And, consciousness appears to carry on constantly without break, so there's another potential infinity. And it seems that we can explore consciousness without end. For consciousness to be finite in all ways, it would have to be bounded by something else that isn't consciousness.

I believe that while consciousness may have the potential for infinite exploration, not all aspects of it provide meaningful insights. Some experiences can be trivial or repetitive, which suggests that the depth of exploration is not infinite in terms of quality. 

The complexities of consciousness mean that even if we explore it endlessly, we might not always find new or significant understandings. This complexity could make our exploration of consciousness feel more cyclical rather than genuinely infinite. In other words, we may revisit similar ideas or experiences without uncovering deeper truths each time.

 

[Spiritual Warfare]

8 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

The true meaning of infinity is non-duality, they're synonymous

While it may be tempting to equate infinity with non-duality, could it be argued that infinity, in its mathematical sense, exists independently of our perceptions and distinctions? Perhaps infinity is a concept that transcends our understanding of unity and duality, suggesting that our efforts to comprehend it through a non-dual lens may limit our grasp of its true nature.

[Hojo]

@Spiritual Warfare its just pretending it exists by having dialogues to itself about what is happening. Everyday you wake up and start remebering things about the other day is a fiction of time being real. You are waking up to the first moment of existence everyday and you are 'remebering' what happened to construct a time narrative.

If you wake up and for the first hour of your day sit there and try to have the feeling of deep sleep remain for one hour you will see you are contstructing everything with a narrative but its not happening. nothing is happening.

 

Edited September 5 by Hojo