When is sexually escalating with a woman you just met come off as desperate?

[Hardkill]

There have been times where I meet a random new girl I've been attracted to at a nightclub or bar and within about the first 5 to 15 minutes of interacting we make out and I rub her breasts and butt. They've never shown any visible signs of discomfort or distress when I get physical with them like that. Sometimes it leads to me getting a phone number from them. Other times, I would continue to make out with them until they leave without seeming upset or uncomfortable with me for whatever reason and then I just never see them again.

When does making out or getting sexual with a girl with a girl you just met like I have before come off as being desperate?

[Leo Gura]

If you're gonna do that you gotta pull that same night, otherwise she will feel too slutty to go on a date with you later.

It's important to note that girls operate in two modes: 1) fun party horny mode, and 2) dating boyfriend mode.

If you're at a nightclub getting frisky, that's mode #1 and you gotta close fast because if she sleeps it off she will be out of that mode and never call you again. And if you're doing mode #2 then don't get too sexual too fast, take her on a date first.

Edited September 1 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're gonna do that you gotta pull that same night, otherwise she will feel too slutty to go on a date with you later.

It's important to note that girls operate in two modes: 1) fun party horny mode, and 2) dating boyfriend mode.

If you're at a nightclub getting frisky, that's mode #1 and you gotta close fast because if she sleeps it off she will be out of that mode and never call you again. And if you're doing mode #2 then don't get too sexual too fast, take her on a date first.

But how do I know if I am coming off as too desperate when I try doing mode #1?

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Hardkill said:

But how do I know if I am coming off as too desperate when I try doing mode #1?

Just look at her face. If she is smiling then you are good. If she is recoiling then you are going too far.

[Hardkill]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just look at her face. If she is smiling then you are good. If she is recoiling then you are going too far.

Oh, so it only comes off as desperate if she seems too uncomfortable with what I am doing or saying to her, right?

[Buck Edwards]

Don't take the conversation in the sexual direction too quickly. Number one mistake that many dudes make. If you do that, it gives that horny dog vibe or "fuckboy" feels. 

Be as gentle and as slow as you can. You can sense her physical neediness in her eyes and body language. First start with flirting, slowly then escalate verbal flirting. If she reacts positively, then you should continue verbal flirting with a little bit of touching her hair etc. Then you can get a little closer. Tell her to go to an isolated place. This is a signal you give her to let her know that you are ready for some intimacy. If she is no, then she straight up doesn't want it. If she agrees, you can further escalate intimate moves with her in some isolated corner. If she is fully ready for your intimacy, you can escalate it to sex in your private place. 

With girls, it's all about how safe and secure we feel with a guy. Safety comes first. If we feel something is weird, it's a turn off right away. Girls like small talk so talk about anything. Of course compliments make a difference. If a girl likes you and needs you she will want you to not be shy about it.. She wants you to lead. If she comes across as cold in her answers, she is probably not interested. If she is giggly and smiles a lot, and genuinely interested in your conversation she will give signs where she wants to go further like positively to your flirting attempts. That's the best you can do. Saying yes to guys is not easy for us girls, we have to scan them for safety and comfort. We want to feel led and guided to sex, not rushed into it. Hope this helps. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

Oh, so it only comes off as desperate if she seems too uncomfortable with what I am doing or saying to her, right?

You can introspect and just notice in yourself when you are trying to get handsy with her just because you are desperate to feel her body. When you notice that neediness, make the counter-intuitive move to not act it out.

There is a difference between esclating because you feel it's proper vs desperately grasping as much as you can as soon as you can. The latter comes from neediness.

Make her crave your touch by strategically withholding it.

One of my pickup buddies put it this way:

"My touch is gold. She has to earn it."

If you adopt his attitude, you will not over escalate.

Edited September 1 by Leo Gura

[LifeEnjoyer]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can introspect and just notice in yourself when you are trying to get handsy with her just because you are desperate to feel her body. When you notice that neediness, make the counter-intuitive move to not act it out.

There is a difference between esclating because you feel it's proper vs desperately grasping as much as you can as soon as you can. The latter comes from neediness.

Make her crave your touch by strategically withholding it.

One of my pickup buddies put it this way:

"My touch is gold. She has to earn it."

If you adopt his attitude, you will not over escalate.

Wow, I feel like I heard so much dog-shit advice over the past few years, like, and now I'm finally reaching the good stuff, and it's all coming together like one giant symphony. Except the symphony is just how I'm interacting with others.

Thank you.

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My touch is gold. She has to earn it."

Lol. These women need an ass whooping.

[mmKay]

6 hours ago, Hardkill said:

When does making out or getting sexual with a girl you just met come off as being desperate?

If your touch and physical escalation is not welcome she will feel creeped out and it's actually called groping.

It would mean you lack calibration skills and are not reading her well, or are going too far, or too fast, or both,  or are not taking in consideration the social context ( she's with her friends/co-workers/family, she can be judged / slut shamed)

If she's receptive then she will appreciate and enjoy it. The moment she stops enjoying it and pushes you back, you may come off as desperate or pushy. That's why you allways want to pull back before she does, so you allways leave her wanting more. This is one of the keys of making her chase you and actually crave your validation and attention.

 

Escalating too hard is a counter productive rookie mistake if you plan on pulling that particular girl , unless she's very turned on and you capitalize on that short window and handle the logistics quickly.

Many times you don't even have to make out before pulling. Sometimes it's better to first handle logistics, hold the sexual tension,  and then escalate all the way once you're by yourselves.

If she's one of those girls whose logistics are very unfavorable and she's pretty much un-pullable that night ( she's with her family, she has to work very early, she lives very far and so do you, there is no way to isolate yourselves in the near environment...)  you can escalate as much as you two are comfortable  with and just enjoy the experience,  or only escalate the right ammount and take her contact for a day two,  allow it to build your state and go for a different girl.

That's why advanced guys screen for logistics. They dont " waste time " with unpullable girls. Know when to just take her contact and go for the next one.  Her seeing you flirting with other girls after her can be counter productive or very effective, depending on the girl.
 

Desperate is a word your buddies would use on you if they see you making out with or pursuing very unattractive girls. Or it's something people can call girls if they are "too easy", usually if they are unattractive.

On the other hand, If you shower her with un-earned validation and attention,  even before any physical escalation, just because she's a woman or just because she's physically attractive, she will feel you're desperate, lack abundance and are needy.

Edited September 1 by mmKay

[Hardkill]

Alright, thanks for all of the advice guys.

[AION]

You shouldn’t want her more than she wants you. If you do you will repulse her. 

It is about attraction (she wanting you) versus repulsion (you wanting her).

Attraction and seduction is the art of wanting you more than you wanting her. So you got to calibrate your desire and not put all your cards on the table. 

Preferably you shouldn’t even plan this shit it.  It is about feeling it out. Not thinking it out. 

Edited September 2 by AION

[QVx]

On 01/09/2024 at 6:52 AM, Leo Gura said:

One of my pickup buddies put it this way:

"My touch is gold. She has to earn it."

If you adopt his attitude, you will not over escalate.

Love that quote, great advice for people! 

[integral]

in chess it’s called maintaining the tension in the position. because a threat is often far more powerful than the execution. in chess building tension in multiple points of the position and maintaining that attention for a long period of time is often far more important then quickly cashing out. You have to wait for the right time to release the tension when the moment is just right, when a good opportunity or a winning opportunity presents itself. There’s no point releasing tention and simplifying the position if there isn’t a good reason to do so. Instead keep putting on the pressure until something cracks.

if you’re cautious about crossing other peoples boundaries you’ll naturally give them space which creates the right kind of tension. Just make sure to pay attention to the signals when you get the greenlight.

Edited September 4 by integral

[Princess Arabia]

9 hours ago, QVx said:

Love that quote, great advice for people! 

That's what you think. You will not respect that woman in the end. It's just a boost for the male ego. That quote is not compatible with the masculine/feminine energy. If anything, it's the other way around, but not in the egoic sense, but how the masculine loves to please the feminine and derives it's worth from accomplishments. It's very competitive and loves to compete for it's prized possessions. No feminine that has to work for masculine attention will ultimately satisfy the masculine energy. It will cheat on her and go find someone else it has to put in the hard work for and when he sees how her touch is gold, he will actually want to stay.

On 9/1/2024 at 1:52 AM, Leo Gura said:

 

 

Edited September 4 by Princess Arabia

[Yimpa]

47 minutes ago, integral said:

in chess it’s called maintaining the tension in the position.

In the end, you make a night 😏

[integral]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's what you think. You will not respect that woman in the end. It's just a boost for the male ego. That quote is not compatible with the masculine/feminine energy. If anything, it's the other way around, but not in the egoic sense, but how the masculine loves to please the feminine and derives it's worth from accomplishments. It's very competitive and loves to compete for it's prized possessions. No feminine that has to work for masculine attention will ultimately satisfy the masculine energy. It will cheat on her and go find someone else it has to put in the hard work for and when he sees how her touch is gold, he will actually want to stay.

I agree and was thinking the same thing. I think better is to understand the art of building anticipation, to have fun and allow it to add to the overall experience.

Leo quote is very ego centric and that part can be filtered out. 

[Princess Arabia]

9 minutes ago, integral said:

Leo quote is very ego centric and that part can be filtered out. 

Yes, but it is also suitable for what he's trying to accomplish. He's not going out to clubs and bars looking for a long-term relationship and most his advice, in this regard, has to do with just getting laid. If the other happens to come with that then that's just what it is. Some of these guys don't understand that and they try to apply his advice in all aspects of the male/female dynamic and that's why they're still having problems because of the lack of discernment and applying it to different circumstances. 

[Princess Arabia]

On 9/2/2024 at 5:48 AM, AION said:

You shouldn’t want her more than she wants you. If you do you will repulse her. 

It is about attraction (she wanting you) versus repulsion (you wanting her).

Attraction and seduction is the art of wanting you more than you wanting her. So you got to calibrate your desire and not put all your cards on the table. 

Preferably you shouldn’t even plan this shit it.  It is about feeling it out. Not thinking it out. 

This is a feminine approach. All of it. Reverse this and you've got the perfect male/female dynamic for growth and desire. A woman should not want a man more than he wants her. That's just a recipe for disaster on both ends. Men are competitive for a reason. Men suck at "feeling it out", that's the feminine perspective. Men are more logical and think things through more effectively than females do. Men feeling it out will just get his dick involved. A female "feeling it out" isn't feeling with her private parts but through her emotions which is ultimately what sets the stage for her desire. 

You're just going off of what someone told you and not what you've experienced; because if you did experience this you'd be repulsed. This is why most of the time you hear men say, she was attracted to me, she approached me, she wanted me but I wasn't attracted to her. They want to want you and they secretly want to earn for you to want them back. Do you know how many times I've heard men say she wanted me but I wasn't attracted to her. They weren't attracted to her because she was willing to give herself too easily without him earning it. That's what that was mostly about. Not saying he was attracted and turned her down because of it, but was never going to turn him on even if he gave it a chance. They love the chase, especially masculine men. He would just do it fkr the opportunity and just to probably get laid and to boost his ego, then ditch her. Of course, there are exceptions, so don't take this as Absolute.

Edited September 4 by Princess Arabia

[integral]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

In the end, you make a night 😏

Lmaooo When your truly mastered the game, you make 8 knights then torture your opponent until they resign. 

Lmaoooo that game is infact not a example of maintaining tension, it’s about quick tactical sequences.