Meditation is a trap!!

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

We already are consciousness. You can’t just live life sitting on a cushion. You need to be active and ambitious. You have to contemplate and have a vision for the future while also appreciating the present moment.

The only meditation practice I do is visualization/LoA

did You read what I said?? Householders like You and I will not be sitting all day on a cushion lol, and what Your talking about above, its ambition, this is a reflection of the Desiring process, You want to be more than what You are right now, so call it Ambition, Greed, Conquest, Success, wanting to have bigger arms, whatever, that is a Spiritual process, but Your Unconscious of it, You think You want a specific goal, like more money, fame, freedom, etc, but its Spiritual, You wanting to be More than what You are right now, if you play it out to the end You want complete Freedom, total Liberation, no Boundaries.  If someone gave You the entire world to own and do what You want, eventually You will want the moon too!

No you won't quiet the mind, you want to turn down the volume of the mind so You don't hear it as loudly anymore, if You quiet the mind then You forget all the stupid things and mistakes You have made and will repeat them, just use the mind for what it is there for, then don't use it when You don't need it, this is our Human nature to control all aspects of what we have to use, I am not the Body or Mind, so they are tools to use, like You use your hands everyday!

Edited September 1 by Ishanga

[Dodo]

12 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

People throw this word meditation around all the time. But what does it actually mean? What is meditation?

Give me a simple, specific, and clear definition of meditation. The issue with some meditation teachers like Osho is that they define everything as meditation. This is a poor operational definition of meditation. When everything becomes a meditation, then how is that different if nothing was a meditation?

Meditation seems like it is more than just being a witness. 

I guarantee that there are certain “meditations” that are a complete waste of time. If you say you can meditate while playing videogames, scrolling on Facebook, going for a run, then this seems like you do not really know what meditation is.

To have the deepest meditation possible, you have to have the right environment and right practice. If you are scrolling on Facebook and just being a witness to your thoughts, that isn’t meditation because it is an oxymoron to say that you can achieve a deep state of mindfulness while doing such a mindless activity.

In order to meditate effectively, you need to set up the right conditions. What are these conditions? What is meditation really? Can meditation actually increase your intelligence and understanding or is it purely a myth? How can you achieve understanding through a thoughtless mind? How is thoughtlessness/stillness and mindlessness different or are they?

I argue that extreme long term meditation is a trap. There is a whole world to see. There is so much growth that you can experience inn the world. Buddhism glorifies the lifestyle of staring at a cave wall for 10 years and calling that meditation and enlightenment. But how are you exactly living a meaningful life of service this way? What is the point of staring at a cave wall or closing your eyes for 2 hours a day, essentially sleeping while you are awake, chanting some mantra, when instead you could travel the world and be just as mindful? If Osho says everything is a meditation, then there is absolutely zero point in closing your eyes, counting your breaths and staring at a cave wall. Do you all not see the contradiction? If everything is a meditation, then why become a sedentary, thoughtless Buddhist Zombie?

Edit: I would define real meditation as a state of deep curiosity, contemplation, and gratitude of the beauty of existence. Anything else isn’t meditation. If you are sitting and counting breaths but aren’t in a state of deep curiosity, contemplation, and gratitude, then you aren’t meditating!!

Living daily life in meditative way, can be considered meditation. Consciously scrolling facebook, you are not automatically unconsciously scrolling! You remain as the observer and detatched! hehe 

[manuel bon]

27 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

We already are consciousness. You can’t just live life sitting on a cushion. You need to be active and ambitious. 

Yes you might be consciousness already, but you're living a live unconsciously. Hence all the spiritual teachers. You're not getting the point. Instead of criticizing and trying to rationally understand things, just try it out and see for yourself. To me is changing my life. That doesn't mean that is easy.

29 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

 Quieting the mind is good in moderation, but you have to use your mind.

That's just your ego talking. How can you talk about not having the mind if you have never experienced it? 

[Princess Arabia]

12 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Edit: I would define real meditation as a state of deep curiosity, contemplation, and gratitude of the beauty of existence.

That's devotion.

[Jordan]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

Be honest though. If you won free tickets to go travel Europe or go on a 10 day Vipassana retreat in Costa Rica, I bet you’d pick the travel through Europe. If you can make everything a meditation, then there is absolutely no point in sitting in one place for 10 days. It’s a complete waste of time. I meditated for 5 hours straight and it was a waste of time. I can be more happy walking outside and running and more connected to being than doing some monotonous activity like closing my eyes and focusing on my breath and chanting a mantra.

If you can make everything a meditation then I would agree with you but most people including myself are unable to make everything a meditation. The monotonous meditation techniques are the easy mode where you learn without as many distractions. Then you can increase the difficulty. Especially when around other people it is much more difficult. In terms of a trap, I would say doing tons of seated meditation without learning to bring the mediation to the rest of your life would be the trap.

To tell you the truth I have been replacing much of my sitting meditation time with walking in the park and doing the exercise from the “guided exercise to realizing you are god” video. Also I will contemplate asking questions such as: “Can I be fully at peace with everything as it is right now?” as I walk. I would still call that meditation because I am entering meditative states as I do that.

Also yes, I would rather go to Europe since there are many new experiences I could have there and it would be more expensive if I had to pay myself. I could just go to Costa rica another time  The costa rica trip is still very tempting though.

[manuel bon]

30 minutes ago, Jordan said:

If you can make everything a meditation then I would agree with you but most people including myself are unable to make everything a meditation. The monotonous meditation techniques are the easy mode where you learn without as many distractions. Then you can increase the difficulty. Especially when around other people it is much more difficult. In terms of a trap, I would say doing tons of seated meditation without learning to bring the mediation to the rest of your life would be the trap.

To tell you the truth I have been replacing much of my sitting meditation time with walking in the park and doing the exercise from the “guided exercise to realizing you are god” video. Also I will contemplate asking questions such as: “Can I be fully at peace with everything as it is right now?” as I walk. I would still call that meditation because I am entering meditative states as I do that.

Also yes, I would rather go to Europe since there are many new experiences I could have there and it would be more expensive if I had to pay myself. I could just go to Costa rica another time  The costa rica trip is still very tempting though.

I agree with you! 

[Yimpa]

Psychedelics is a trap.

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I would agree. But you don’t have to sit with eyes closed with no thoughts to experience the truth of being. Since thoughts are part of reality, it would be a mistake to not use them to contemplate. Life is too short for me to sit all day with eyes closed. I’m a very active person and I think you can access truth by not meditating.

Yeah I always did it with eyes open.  I also did a lot of concentration meditation too.  But the main thing in my opinion is you want to quiet the ego mind as much as possible and just be in actuality.

[r0ckyreed]

4 hours ago, manuel bon said:

Yes you might be consciousness already, but you're living a live unconsciously. Hence all the spiritual teachers. You're not getting the point. Instead of criticizing and trying to rationally understand things, just try it out and see for yourself. To me is changing my life. That doesn't mean that is easy.

That's just your ego talking. How can you talk about not having the mind if you have never experienced it? 

I am coming from the perspective of having done meditation seriously since 2018 with the most I have ever sit was 5 hours in a day. But the issue is that you guys say meditate for an hour or so a day, and I am saying that it isn’t about how much time you spend in meditation but rather the quality of your consciousness and how deep you go now. I claim that quieting your mind only gets you so far. You need to contemplate!

Edited September 1 by r0ckyreed

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yeah I always did it with eyes open.  I also did a lot of concentration meditation too.  But the main thing in my opinion is you want to quiet the ego mind as much as possible and just be in actuality.

You already are in actuality. Quieting your mind does not equate with intelligence and understanding. If you want peace of mind, then quieting your mind is useful. But if you want deep understanding and make nuanced distinctions, then you need to use your mind.

[r0ckyreed]

4 hours ago, Jordan said:

If you can make everything a meditation then I would agree with you but most people including myself are unable to make everything a meditation. The monotonous meditation techniques are the easy mode where you learn without as many distractions. Then you can increase the difficulty. Especially when around other people it is much more difficult. In terms of a trap, I would say doing tons of seated meditation without learning to bring the mediation to the rest of your life would be the trap.

To tell you the truth I have been replacing much of my sitting meditation time with walking in the park and doing the exercise from the “guided exercise to realizing you are god” video. Also I will contemplate asking questions such as: “Can I be fully at peace with everything as it is right now?” as I walk. I would still call that meditation because I am entering meditative states as I do that.

Also yes, I would rather go to Europe since there are many new experiences I could have there and it would be more expensive if I had to pay myself. I could just go to Costa rica another time  The costa rica trip is still very tempting though.

There you go. That’s what I’m pointing to. Contemplation is a must. If all you are doing is quieting the mind, that is like wearing only one shoe to a marathon. Adventure, being active, and ambition are important values.

[manuel bon]

10 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I am coming from the perspective of having done meditation seriously since 2018 with the most I have ever sit was 5 hours in a day. But the issue is that you guys say meditate for an hour or so a day, and I am saying that it isn’t about how much time you spend in meditation but rather the quality of your consciousness and how deep you go now. I claim that quieting your mind only gets you so far. You need to contemplate!

Well first of all you don't know how much I meditate. Second of, we are all different, and maybe these things weren't so efficient for you, as they are for other people. 

Therefore saying that "meditation is a trap" is wrong.

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

You already are in actuality. Quieting your mind does not equate with intelligence and understanding. If you want peace of mind, then quieting your mind is useful. But if you want deep understanding and make nuanced distinctions, then you need to use your mind.

Sure but I have found that it can lead to awakening and omniscience..it can initiate a shift into God Consciousness when you sit in no mind.  When I say no mind I mean shutting the ego mind down and just sitting in what is actual..and then something can happen    for most people I guess this can take decades of it - but for me it was just about two weeks. So I'm sure genetics plays a role here and also life experience and how much deep suffering you have endured.

Edited September 2 by Inliytened1

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

You already are in actuality. Quieting your mind does not equate with intelligence and understanding. If you want peace of mind, then quieting your mind is useful. But if you want deep understanding and make nuanced distinctions, then you need to use your mind.

You use your mind to quiet your mind.

[cetus]

My meditations are simple.

The mind settles down to the point where there are no more thoughts.

All that remains is awareness basking in a placid ocean of awareness.

And sometimes experiences, insights or visuals may suddenly arise out of that ocean of awareness. 

 

 

 

[r0ckyreed]

That may be all well and good guys. But how do you deal with the fact that you still have to think high quality thoughts in order function in society and create something meaningful? If you don’t spend time contemplating, how are you gonna produce insight?

[Hojo]

meditation = trance @r0ckyreed

Edited September 1 by Hojo

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

That may be all well and good guys. But how do you deal with the fact that you still have to think high quality thoughts in order function in society and create something meaningful? If you don’t spend time contemplating, how are you gonna produce insight?

Mediation has nothing to do with this .. this is just contemplation.

[VeganAwake]

It's indescribable because it's not a real something.

It's the end of being identified with or as the habitual over thinking monkey mind thoughts!

❤️ 

[Joshe]

Meditation has its place in conscious exploration. I'm like you though, not very interested in it. I think it depends on what you're trying to do. 

It seems like the best modality for gaining control over the body-mind. 

I'm skeptical of its enlightenment efficacy. 

Contemplation is king for developing intelligence, understanding, and learning how to mine for insights. 

I think I heard David Hawkins say something like "meditation is generally thought to be the ultimate practice for enlightenment but contemplation can be just as, if not more effective than traditional meditation". Something like that.

The "mind" path isn't for everyone though. For example, I think "feelers" make up the majority of people on the spiritual path. They naturally prefer feeling over thinking and seem to usually have a low Need for Cognition, which makes mining for insights difficult. That said, thinking alone isn't enough. You need some sort of deep feeling thing. IDK how to explain it. Thought should be able to take you to beauty and you be impacted by it. If you can use your mind to find beauty and you are emotionally impacted, and that happens often or if you can do it on cue, I think that is indication that mind path is good. This is all just speculation based on my experience.