God is bias.

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

As I've said, and its the only that makes sense to me, because of Us and the wide variety of People, Absolute is able to Experience itself in many many different ways, as well its an expression of Possibility, Duality has to exist somewhere so here it is existing here as an expression of possibility...we are playing it all out in a big game on this planet!

These games are ridiculous, sorry, not sorry! I also don't believe that duality is a necessary condition for existence. 

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

These games are ridiculous, sorry, not sorry! I also don't believe that duality is a necessary condition for existence. 

Well I guess it is for this sort of existence.. Just Contemplate this, what really Does Absolute mean? Forget about simple Human emotions, for me Absolute means Everything, everything that is possible to happen has to happen, so since Duality is a possibility, here it is...In another place or realm it is different with a different set of rules and boundaries and so forth, its endless, we can't comp rend it on any real level, but that is my guess at it, I haven't heard any better yet...

[Yimpa]

@Ishanga Random question, but can you please explain to me what you are doing in your profile picture?

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Ishanga Random question, but can you please explain to me what you are doing in your profile picture?

I used to teach Wing Chun Kung Fu, that is me teaching...

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, Ishanga said:

Well I guess it is for this sort of existence.. Just Contemplate this, what really Does Absolute mean? Forget about simple Human emotions, for me Absolute means Everything, everything that is possible to happen has to happen, so since Duality is a possibility, here it is...In another place or realm it is different with a different set of rules and boundaries and so forth, its endless, we can't comp rend it on any real level, but that is my guess at it, I haven't heard any better yet...

I appreciate your honesty! The more we understand, the less coherent the entire concept of existence seems. For me, these experiences and limitations feel like a burden. Why couldn't God experience all these possibilities while still retaining the knowledge of His divine nature? There’s a richness in understanding that could enhance the experience rather than diminish it. It raises the intriguing question: could the essence of divinity coexist with the complexities of human experience?

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I used to teach Wing Chun Kung Fu, that is me teaching...

Such massive power happening with little effort!

Edited August 29 by Yimpa

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

Yes Francis Fong, well known in the Wing Chun community,,, here's my Utube page.. https://www.youtube.com/@Inclusivevingtsun/videos

 

 

Edited August 29 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

God is inevitable. Reality is and cannot not be, it flows, it takes forms since it cannot be static, those forms are these forms, since they have to be some forms. could they be better? No, they are absolutely perfect. infinite forms flowing, organizing themselves in patterns of a complexity that goes beyond imagination, interconnected to infinity

Edited August 29 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

God created everything out of boredom

Don't take it too literally.

[Human Mint]

8 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

we are ultimately destined to forget it and reincarnate into something new

Why are you so sure about reincarnation?

8 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

a perfect existence is characterized by the absence of desire and lacks any inherent purpose

 And also how do you know this? 

If you are so sure about it then you already have your answers: being a human is a waste of time

[Xonas Pitfall]

 

2 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

I appreciate your honesty! The more we understand, the less coherent the entire concept of existence seems. For me, these experiences and limitations feel like a burden. Why couldn't God experience all these possibilities while still retaining the knowledge of His divine nature? There’s a richness in understanding that could enhance the experience rather than diminish it. It raises the intriguing question: could the essence of divinity coexist with the complexities of human experience?

There absolutely might be creatures who retain awareness of higher consciousness while they experience limited forms. We just aren't one of them, and that is okay. 

God is biased toward being a God. God cannot be anything but itself—a God. A God, by definition, is everything. To be everything, you must be both everything and nothing, biased and unbiased, limited and unlimited. God has to encompass being biased because that is what 'He' fundamentally is. 'He' doesn't create everything out of boredom; it just has to exist so He can exist completely. Think of it as a truism or a tautology that cannot be avoided—you are personifying too much. For God to be everything, 'He' must manifest everything. Part of everything includes limited forms, both aware and unaware of their higher consciousness. Therefore, limited forms must exist. Humans are just one of many manifestations or parts of God.

[Spiritual Warfare]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

God is inevitable. Reality is and cannot not be, it flows, it takes forms since it cannot be static, those forms are these forms, since they have to be some forms. could they be better? No, they are absolutely perfect. infinite forms flowing, organizing themselves in patterns of a complexity that goes beyond imagination, interconnected to infinity

Does God orchestrate the flow of events, or is it all a matter of automatic processes?

[Spiritual Warfare]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't take it too literally.

(;

[Water by the River]

12 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

Please 

Why the heck is the drama like it is? A drama in 10 Acts.

Act 1: God IS. Infinite Being/Consciousness/Reality IS. Always. Eternal.  I am that I am.
Nowhere else to go for "It", because It would and is already be there. (True) You can't have an outside. (True) YOU are. I am that I am. The Being speaking to Moses had realized that:

"One day he ventured farafield while pasturing his sheep and ended up on the slopes of Mount Horeb, the “Mountain of God.”70 There, as everyone knows, he saw a strange sight: a plant that appeared to have a flame burning in its center, though it was not consumed by the fire. When he drew closer to get a better look at this marvel, he heard the plant call him by name. “I am here,” Moses answered, whereupon the burning plant told him to take off his shoes, “ … for the place on which you stand is holy ground. I am the God of your fathers…” (Figure 30). The god-plant [aka psychedelic plant,WbtR], then told Moses that he had a task for him." Carl Ruck, The Apples of Apollo.

Act 2: Any separate-self has as main building block resistance to what is.
When you truly empty out your relative arising self (the illusion), boredom gets cut off (its a negative resistance + a conceptual interpretation on top, all of that are appearances happening within Infinite True You). And all the other interpretations and reactions also, and they get replaced by the Sat Chit Ananda bliss of True Being. Which is also just fact. The True Being of God is Sat Chit Ananda. Any resistance and suffering is just the illusion of the ignorant ego. That becomes totally clear when these awakened states have become accessible in a stable way.

Act 3: Indras Net, and the One (Infinite) without a second
Apparently, other perspectives of YOUR Infinite Net of perspectives/holons/being (Indras Net), which YOU forget in real-time (you need just one more dimension for these other beings you forget in real-time), manifest this whole show (the so called Archetypes (in former times Gods/Deities or Platos Archetypes, nowadays Leos Aliens of various kinds, see Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven, or the books of Stan Grof). These beings/perspectives have an Intelligence which makes a human appear very limited. Some like to call it alien. Some divine. Some archetypal. Yet, its all True You at the same time.

How all of that has to be necessarily ones own True Being is paradoxical from the un-enlightened perspective, yet no problem when "other" falls away in Enlightenment as just a conceptual-arising. Or more precisely, I-feelings and I-thoughts and projecting "other-feeling" and "other-concepts" on "something" arising in ones True Nondual Infinite Being drops away.

Act 4: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Just to put this into perspective,”
I was in a condition of consciousness that might best be described as “ancient.”
Surveying what had been unfolding through billions of years of evolution and what
would be emerging in humanity’s future, I was not so much in the material domain as
in a domain that was responsible for generating material reality. Matter always exists
at a specific time, but I was encompassing many time-moments simultaneously and
so was stretched across time. The experience carried with it a sense of being “timefilled”
or “ancient.”
In the middle of this grand tour, it was as if something said, “Just to put this into
perspective,” and then the most extraordinary thing happened. The physical universe
began to be folded up and put away. It was as simple as that, like one puts away
Christmas decorations after the holidays. The physical universe, planets surging with
vitality, whole galaxies teeming with life, started to be folded up and slipped into a
background of total EMPTINESS. I immediately recognized that this was the Primal
Void. I was being shown that matter and time are not ultimately real, that they
emerge from and are at every moment sustained by something that is more real,
something completely without form.
As the universe got smaller with each fold, I could feel billions of life-forms being
slipped into the folds of the Void, and a protest rose within me. I did not want to let go
of all this exquisitely beautiful form, everything that had been so painstakingly crafted
through billions of years of evolution. Indeed, it was my love for the physical universe
that seemed to precipitate this extreme lesson—as if to break the spell that physical
creation had on me, seen as I had seen it in the broad sweep of its evolutionary
glory. My protests changed nothing, however, and the universe’s bursting vitality
became fainter with each fold.
As the universe continued to shrink, my experience began to shift to what was
swallowing it. What had been background was becoming foreground and capturing
my attention. It was SILENCE like I had never experienced silence before. It was
STILLNESS more still than I had ever known. And most strange of all, I experienced
its emergence as a REMEMBERING. I was remembering something that it seemed I
had lost contact with billions of years ago. The shock of remembering something so
ancient left me stunned. In one second, it completely transformed my sense of what I
was. Our memories define the boundaries of our being. In one sudden movement, I
was remembering a sea of Infinite Formlessness that was the source of all Form,
including my own form, and I knew that this was what “I” at root was.

Act 5. Chris Bache,. LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: Then “God” asked me, “Is it all for nothing? Have we not learned anything?

The Jolts of Non-Being 
Flowing on the energy of the universe, suddenly everything was turned off and then
on again. Everything that is, suddenly was not—POW—then was again. This
happened repeatedly. The universe kept vanishing. The jolts were the winking out of
Being into Non-Being.
In the cessation of the universe, all the world’s striving, yearning, and suffering
was suddenly thrown into a new perspective. This was the substance of God. The
question is not “Why are we doing it?” The question is “Why is God doing it?” Why is
God unfolding himself/herself/itself as the universe? What is it for?
In this burgeoning of life, God seemed to be knowing himself. “Either it’s this
teaming mass of life or it’s this!”—POW—Nothingness. Either the One becoming our
infinitely rich universe, or the Void.
Then “God” asked me, “Is it all for nothing? Have we not learned anything?” and
he turned as if to ponder his failure. This shattered me and I wept. Non-Being and
Being were two different modes of God. In the choice of Being, there unfolded the
entirety of life as it is, with all its mysteries, pains, and pleasures. It all seemed to be
about learning. “Have we not learned anything?” I felt shattered by the vastness of
God’s adventure in knowing himself. All the galaxies had continued to turn while I
was in hell today. Suns flared into supernovas, and all this was him. Nothing was not
him. “Have we not learned anything?” I was silenced.

Act 6: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Have we not learned anything?” This time it carried overtones of: “Has it not been worthwhile? Has it not been an adventure? Look what would not exist if we had not chosen to create.”

This mysterious progression repeated itself many times and in many variations. It
continued for hours. I would be at one level of reality far beyond physical diversity,
and as I sought to know this reality more deeply, I would experience a kind of dying,
a falling away, and would slip into a new level where I would discover that this duality
too was but another facet of Myself. Over and over again, in detailed progressions, I
was led to the same fundamental encounter.
No matter how many times I died or how many different forms I was when I died,
I kept being caught by this massive SOMETHING, this IT. I could not leave IT, could
not escape IT, could not not be IT. No matter how many adventures I had been on, I
had never stepped outside IT, never stopped being IT. There simply was no outside
to My Being. There was no other in existence.
As I moved into these levels of increasing ontological simplicity, I entered a
profound stillness that reawakened a distant, vague memory. “Where have I known
this before?” By following this stillness, I was guided back to what seemed like a time
before creation, back to the ontological fount of creation. In this stillness, I was “with
Myself” in ways that I had been long ago, but not for billions of years. It was a time of
reunion, a time of being whole after a terribly long separation.
From this extraordinary position, I began to actually be able to conceive of the
possibility of the physical universe not having been created. The alternatives stood
starkly before me. On one side was all the planning, all the work, all the confusion
and uncertainty, and especially all the terrible suffering that was so fresh in my mind
from earlier in the session. On the other side was the profound stillness and richness
that was my current state. Why do it? Why manifest the universe if at such a cost?
An answer rose that was the same as I had been given before, in session 15:
“Have we not learned anything?” This time it carried overtones of: “Has it not been
worthwhile? Has it not been an adventure? Look what would not exist if we had not
chosen to create.” This time I was not shattered, for the choice of creation seemed
profoundly good. The thought that the entire physical universe might not have existed
carried with it a terrible sadness. From this perspective, I was also able to feel that
there was no fundamental flaw in the manifest order of creation. Despite all the
suffering, everything was moving along fine—though it is profoundly unfinished.
I continued to ask my questions:
“What is happening here?”
“How does this work?”
“What has it been like for you?”
With each question, my experiential field changed, opening me to one cosmic
process after another. I cannot describe these experiences adequately because the
categories of thought derived from space-time do not lend themselves to
remembering clearly or translating into words experiences of realities that lie outside
space-time. Though my ordinary waking consciousness is being gradually changed
by these experiences, it is still too cognitively restricted to be able to hold on to them
in sufficient detail. What I experienced, however, repeatedly swept me into ecstasy.
“Amazing!”
“So that’s how that works!”
“Oh, goodness!”
“How much do you want to see?” I was asked. “More!” I answered, and always more
would unfold. It kept unfolding for hours.

Act 7: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Go and create, My Children.”
Let me backtrack to another layer of the experience. As I was re-assimilating my
lives and ascending through various levels, I was also entering into intimate dialogue
with a Presence that addressed me. It communed with me and “spoke” to me in
messages that were only sometimes put into words. It was explaining to me what I
was experiencing not so much with words but with direct illumination.
When I reached the point of Diamond Light, I was lifted beyond physical
existence and beyond the bardo echoes of physical existence. It felt like I had reassimilated
all my incarnations on Earth, that I had brought back into one all my
experiences in duality. From this point, which carried the flavor of both before and
after physical existence, the Presence illumined for me the human project. With the
deepest, most tender words of a divine parent, It said:
“Go and create, My Children.”
It was setting us loose in a cosmos that contained many realms. The one I had just
reemerged from was only one among many universes, some of which were physical,
others not. We were small aspects of this Being, truly Its children, of the same type,
only smaller in size and capacity.

 

Act 8. Water by the River sits in Sat Chit Ananda on a park bench, relaxes the self-contraction of his former character-gig into Infinite Liberation of True Being, looking at all beings who believe in their separation and whose suffering and resistance keeps the whole gig going. 

He remembers quoting from Chris Baches incredible journey told in "LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven", and how he had to pass the Ocean of Suffering on his high-dose-LSD-journey before any of these higher realms which detailed the Karmic mechanisms and the reasons for manifestation (even if it means initial suffering) were disclosed for him.

This time, however, I was refusing to surrender to the pain and rejected
everything that was happening to me. Eventually, I was backed up against a
psychological wall and was told that if I persisted in rejecting the suffering, I
would be turning my back on humanity, on life itself. To not care seemed to
be the ultimate existential withdrawal from life. With multiple scenarios
echoing this refrain, I was being confronted with an absolute choice of
whether to open to this pain or not. At this point, my “No” changed to a
“Yes.” This transition felt like a conversion in the deepest religious sense.
In the middle of terrible suffering I found myself saying, “Yes! I can make a
difference. Yes! I accept responsibility.” I was accepting responsibility for the anguish
and for trying to make a difference in the lives surrounding me. This shift was
fundamental. It reached to depths I cannot now fathom and impacted me in ways I
cannot summarize. It seemed a free choice on the most basic of questions.
With this acceptance, the torment suddenly changed to positive themes. Themes
of young children—happy excitement, delighted play, self-abandoned joy. Many
scenarios of childhood wonder and adventure. This was the beginning of a “new
way.” It contrasted with the former negative way in every respect. It was simple
instead of chaotic, shared instead of individual, fresh instead of repetitive. I felt
cleansed and made new. (S 17)

Apparently, the high-dose LSD psychedelic journey seemed to demand something like a Bodhisattva-Comittment in order to open these divine-realms and the mechanics of archetypal creation-realms, Karma & reincarnation, which apparently don't get opened so much (if at all) with other psychedelic like 5-MeO.

Maybe God has left some safety-elements in place so that Liberation  from the egoic separate-self-contraction can not so easily be achieved if it all is done only for the separate-self gig and its curiosity in "understanding".

 

Act 9: Where there is not THIS, there is only suffering

 

Act 10: Harada-Roshi to Yaeoko, in Three Pillars of Zen, Kapleau: Now for the first time.

"Now for the first time you have found the Way—fully realized your
Mind. You have been delivered from delusion, which has no abiding root.
Wonderful! Wonderful!
There is neither Ox [God/Reality as object out there]nor man [separate self]."

So who exactly is reading these words again? Who is reading these lines? Which is that silent Awareness having it all appearing in its Infinite and eternal Being? And did it all ever truly happen?

And who said to Chris Bache “Go and create, My Children”?

 

Selling the drama by the River

 

Edited August 30 by Water by the River

[Spiritual Warfare]

7 hours ago, Human Mint said:

Why are you so sure about reincarnation?

 And also how do you know this? 

If you are so sure about it then you already have your answers: being a human is a waste of time

I believe it's a common notion that something truly perfect requires nothing; if it does, then it ceases to be perfect. However, one could argue that perfection may have multiple definitions. Perhaps perfection lies not in the absence of need, but in the capacity to embrace growth and evolution. 

As for reincarnation, I'm not entirely certain about it, but Leo posits that God seeks to experience all facets of infinity.

[Spiritual Warfare]

7 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

 

There absolutely might be creatures who retain awareness of higher consciousness while they experience limited forms. We just aren't one of them, and that is okay. 

God is biased toward being a God. God cannot be anything but itself—a God. A God, by definition, is everything. To be everything, you must be both everything and nothing, biased and unbiased, limited and unlimited. God has to encompass being biased because that is what 'He' fundamentally is. 'He' doesn't create everything out of boredom; it just has to exist so He can exist completely. Think of it as a truism or a tautology that cannot be avoided—you are personifying too much. For God to be everything, 'He' must manifest everything. Part of everything includes limited forms, both aware and unaware of their higher consciousness. Therefore, limited forms must exist. Humans are just one of many manifestations or parts of God.

I understand your perspective, and I appreciate it. However, the point is that God could experience everything without being confined by limitations. It's a misconception to assume that God must undergo unawareness or any form of ignorance; such notions are merely speculative. 

God could experience existence while fully retaining divine consciousness. Ultimately, everything can seem absurd, and while some may label me as biased or closed-minded, I believe many intuitively recognize that this approach feels deeply flawed. It's hard to see this as a well-thought-out plan.

[Spiritual Warfare]

4 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Why the heck is the drama like it is? A drama in 10 Acts.

Act 1: God IS. Infinite Being/Consciousness/Reality IS. Always. Eternal.  I am that I am.
Nowhere else to go for "It", because It would and is already be there. (True) You can't have an outside. (True) YOU are. I am that I am. The Being speaking to Moses had realized that:

"One day he ventured farafield while pasturing his sheep and ended up on the slopes of Mount Horeb, the “Mountain of God.”70 There, as everyone knows, he saw a strange sight: a plant that appeared to have a flame burning in its center, though it was not consumed by the fire. When he drew closer to get a better look at this marvel, he heard the plant call him by name. “I am here,” Moses answered, whereupon the burning plant told him to take off his shoes, “ … for the place on which you stand is holy ground. I am the God of your fathers…” (Figure 30). The god-plant [aka psychedelic plant,WbtR], then told Moses that he had a task for him." Carl Ruck, The Apples of Apollo.

Act 2: Any separate-self has as main building block resistance to what is.
When you truly empty out your relative arising self (the illusion), boredom gets cut off (its a negative resistance + a conceptual interpretation on top, all of that are appearances happening within Infinite True You). And all the other interpretations and reactions also, and they get replaced by the Sat Chit Ananda bliss of True Being. Which is also just fact. The True Being of God is Sat Chit Ananda. Any resistance and suffering is just the illusion of the ignorant ego. That becomes totally clear when these awakened states have become accessible in a stable way.

Act 3: Indras Net, and the One (Infinite) without a second
Apparently, other perspectives of YOUR Infinite Net of perspectives/holons/being (Indras Net), which YOU forget in real-time (you need just one more dimension for these other beings you forget in real-time), manifest this whole show (the so called Archetypes (in former times Gods/Deities or Platos Archetypes, nowadays Leos Aliens of various kinds, see Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven, or the books of Stan Grof). These beings/perspectives have an Intelligence which makes a human appear very limited. Some like to call it alien. Some divine. Some archetypal. Yet, its all True You at the same time.

How all of that has to be necessarily ones own True Being is paradoxical from the un-enlightened perspective, yet no problem when "other" falls away in Enlightenment as just a conceptual-arising. Or more precisely, I-feelings and I-thoughts and projecting-other-feeling and other concepts on "something" arising in ones True Nondual Infinite Being drops away.

Act 4: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Just to put this into perspective,”
I was in a condition of consciousness that might best be described as “ancient.”
Surveying what had been unfolding through billions of years of evolution and what
would be emerging in humanity’s future, I was not so much in the material domain as
in a domain that was responsible for generating material reality. Matter always exists
at a specific time, but I was encompassing many time-moments simultaneously and
so was stretched across time. The experience carried with it a sense of being “timefilled”
or “ancient.”
In the middle of this grand tour, it was as if something said, “Just to put this into
perspective,” and then the most extraordinary thing happened. The physical universe
began to be folded up and put away. It was as simple as that, like one puts away
Christmas decorations after the holidays. The physical universe, planets surging with
vitality, whole galaxies teeming with life, started to be folded up and slipped into a
background of total EMPTINESS. I immediately recognized that this was the Primal
Void. I was being shown that matter and time are not ultimately real, that they
emerge from and are at every moment sustained by something that is more real,
something completely without form.
As the universe got smaller with each fold, I could feel billions of life-forms being
slipped into the folds of the Void, and a protest rose within me. I did not want to let go
of all this exquisitely beautiful form, everything that had been so painstakingly crafted
through billions of years of evolution. Indeed, it was my love for the physical universe
that seemed to precipitate this extreme lesson—as if to break the spell that physical
creation had on me, seen as I had seen it in the broad sweep of its evolutionary
glory. My protests changed nothing, however, and the universe’s bursting vitality
became fainter with each fold.
As the universe continued to shrink, my experience began to shift to what was
swallowing it. What had been background was becoming foreground and capturing
my attention. It was SILENCE like I had never experienced silence before. It was
STILLNESS more still than I had ever known. And most strange of all, I experienced
its emergence as a REMEMBERING. I was remembering something that it seemed I
had lost contact with billions of years ago. The shock of remembering something so
ancient left me stunned. In one second, it completely transformed my sense of what I
was. Our memories define the boundaries of our being. In one sudden movement, I
was remembering a sea of Infinite Formlessness that was the source of all Form,
including my own form, and I knew that this was what “I” at root was.

Act 5. Chris Bache,. LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: Then “God” asked me, “Is it all for nothing? Have we not learned anything?

The Jolts of Non-Being 
Flowing on the energy of the universe, suddenly everything was turned off and then
on again. Everything that is, suddenly was not—POW—then was again. This
happened repeatedly. The universe kept vanishing. The jolts were the winking out of
Being into Non-Being.
In the cessation of the universe, all the world’s striving, yearning, and suffering
was suddenly thrown into a new perspective. This was the substance of God. The
question is not “Why are we doing it?” The question is “Why is God doing it?” Why is
God unfolding himself/herself/itself as the universe? What is it for?
In this burgeoning of life, God seemed to be knowing himself. “Either it’s this
teaming mass of life or it’s this!”—POW—Nothingness. Either the One becoming our
infinitely rich universe, or the Void.
Then “God” asked me, “Is it all for nothing? Have we not learned anything?” and
he turned as if to ponder his failure. This shattered me and I wept. Non-Being and
Being were two different modes of God. In the choice of Being, there unfolded the
entirety of life as it is, with all its mysteries, pains, and pleasures. It all seemed to be
about learning. “Have we not learned anything?” I felt shattered by the vastness of
God’s adventure in knowing himself. All the galaxies had continued to turn while I
was in hell today. Suns flared into supernovas, and all this was him. Nothing was not
him. “Have we not learned anything?” I was silenced.

Act 6: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Have we not learned anything?” This time it carried overtones of: “Has it not been worthwhile? Has it not been an adventure? Look what would not exist if we had not chosen to create.”

This mysterious progression repeated itself many times and in many variations. It
continued for hours. I would be at one level of reality far beyond physical diversity,
and as I sought to know this reality more deeply, I would experience a kind of dying,
a falling away, and would slip into a new level where I would discover that this duality
too was but another facet of Myself. Over and over again, in detailed progressions, I
was led to the same fundamental encounter.
No matter how many times I died or how many different forms I was when I died,
I kept being caught by this massive SOMETHING, this IT. I could not leave IT, could
not escape IT, could not not be IT. No matter how many adventures I had been on, I
had never stepped outside IT, never stopped being IT. There simply was no outside
to My Being. There was no other in existence.
As I moved into these levels of increasing ontological simplicity, I entered a
profound stillness that reawakened a distant, vague memory. “Where have I known
this before?” By following this stillness, I was guided back to what seemed like a time
before creation, back to the ontological fount of creation. In this stillness, I was “with
Myself” in ways that I had been long ago, but not for billions of years. It was a time of
reunion, a time of being whole after a terribly long separation.
From this extraordinary position, I began to actually be able to conceive of the
possibility of the physical universe not having been created. The alternatives stood
starkly before me. On one side was all the planning, all the work, all the confusion
and uncertainty, and especially all the terrible suffering that was so fresh in my mind
from earlier in the session. On the other side was the profound stillness and richness
that was my current state. Why do it? Why manifest the universe if at such a cost?
An answer rose that was the same as I had been given before, in session 15:
“Have we not learned anything?” This time it carried overtones of: “Has it not been
worthwhile? Has it not been an adventure? Look what would not exist if we had not
chosen to create.” This time I was not shattered, for the choice of creation seemed
profoundly good. The thought that the entire physical universe might not have existed
carried with it a terrible sadness. From this perspective, I was also able to feel that
there was no fundamental flaw in the manifest order of creation. Despite all the
suffering, everything was moving along fine—though it is profoundly unfinished.
I continued to ask my questions:
“What is happening here?”
“How does this work?”
“What has it been like for you?”
With each question, my experiential field changed, opening me to one cosmic
process after another. I cannot describe these experiences adequately because the
categories of thought derived from space-time do not lend themselves to
remembering clearly or translating into words experiences of realities that lie outside
space-time. Though my ordinary waking consciousness is being gradually changed
by these experiences, it is still too cognitively restricted to be able to hold on to them
in sufficient detail. What I experienced, however, repeatedly swept me into ecstasy.
“Amazing!”
“So that’s how that works!”
“Oh, goodness!”
“How much do you want to see?” I was asked. “More!” I answered, and always more
would unfold. It kept unfolding for hours.

Act 7: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Go and create, My Children.”
Let me backtrack to another layer of the experience. As I was re-assimilating my
lives and ascending through various levels, I was also entering into intimate dialogue
with a Presence that addressed me. It communed with me and “spoke” to me in
messages that were only sometimes put into words. It was explaining to me what I
was experiencing not so much with words but with direct illumination.
When I reached the point of Diamond Light, I was lifted beyond physical
existence and beyond the bardo echoes of physical existence. It felt like I had reassimilated
all my incarnations on Earth, that I had brought back into one all my
experiences in duality. From this point, which carried the flavor of both before and
after physical existence, the Presence illumined for me the human project. With the
deepest, most tender words of a divine parent, It said:
“Go and create, My Children.”
It was setting us loose in a cosmos that contained many realms. The one I had just
reemerged from was only one among many universes, some of which were physical,
others not. We were small aspects of this Being, truly Its children, of the same type,
only smaller in size and capacity.

 

Act 8. Water by the River sits in Sat Chit Ananda on a park bench, relaxes the self-contraction of his former character-gig into Infinite Liberation of True Being, looking at all beings who believe in their separation and whose suffering and resistance keeps the whole gig going. 

He remembers quoting from Chris Baches incredible journey told in "LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven", and how he had to pass the Ocean of Suffering on his high-dose-LSD-journey before any of these higher realms which detailed the Karmic mechanisms and the reasons for manifestation (even if it means initial suffering) were disclosed for him.

This time, however, I was refusing to surrender to the pain and rejected
everything that was happening to me. Eventually, I was backed up against a
psychological wall and was told that if I persisted in rejecting the suffering, I
would be turning my back on humanity, on life itself. To not care seemed to
be the ultimate existential withdrawal from life. With multiple scenarios
echoing this refrain, I was being confronted with an absolute choice of
whether to open to this pain or not. At this point, my “No” changed to a
“Yes.” This transition felt like a conversion in the deepest religious sense.
In the middle of terrible suffering I found myself saying, “Yes! I can make a
difference. Yes! I accept responsibility.” I was accepting responsibility for the anguish
and for trying to make a difference in the lives surrounding me. This shift was
fundamental. It reached to depths I cannot now fathom and impacted me in ways I
cannot summarize. It seemed a free choice on the most basic of questions.
With this acceptance, the torment suddenly changed to positive themes. Themes
of young children—happy excitement, delighted play, self-abandoned joy. Many
scenarios of childhood wonder and adventure. This was the beginning of a “new
way.” It contrasted with the former negative way in every respect. It was simple
instead of chaotic, shared instead of individual, fresh instead of repetitive. I felt
cleansed and made new. (S 17)

Apparently, the high-dose LSD psychedelic journey seemed to demand something like a Boddhisattva-Comittment in order to open these divine-realms and the mechanics of archetypal creation-realms, Karma & reincarnation, which apparently don't get opened so much (if at all) with other psychedelic like 5-MeO.

Maybe God has left some safety-elements in place so that Liberation  from the egoic separate-self-contraction can not so easily be achieved if it all is done only for the separate-self gig and its curiosity in "understanding".

 

Act 9: Where there is not THIS, there is only suffering

 

Act 10: Yaeoko, in Three Pillars of Zen, Kapleau: Now for the first time.

"Now for the first time you have found the Way—fully realized your
Mind. You have been delivered from delusion, which has no abiding root.
Wonderful! Wonderful!
There is neither Ox (God/Reality as object out there) nor man."

So who exactly is reading these words again? Who is reading these lines? Which is that silent Awareness having it all appearing in its Infinite and eternal Being? And did it all ever truly happen?

And who said “Go and create, My Children.”?

 

Selling the drama by the River

6 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Why the heck is the drama like it is? A drama in 10 Acts.

Act 1: God IS. Infinite Being/Consciousness/Reality IS. Always. Eternal.  I am that I am.
Nowhere else to go for "It", because It would and is already be there. (True) You can't have an outside. (True) YOU are. I am that I am. The Being speaking to Moses had realized that:

"One day he ventured farafield while pasturing his sheep and ended up on the slopes of Mount Horeb, the “Mountain of God.”70 There, as everyone knows, he saw a strange sight: a plant that appeared to have a flame burning in its center, though it was not consumed by the fire. When he drew closer to get a better look at this marvel, he heard the plant call him by name. “I am here,” Moses answered, whereupon the burning plant told him to take off his shoes, “ … for the place on which you stand is holy ground. I am the God of your fathers…” (Figure 30). The god-plant [aka psychedelic plant,WbtR], then told Moses that he had a task for him." Carl Ruck, The Apples of Apollo.

Act 2: Any separate-self has as main building block resistance to what is.
When you truly empty out your relative arising self (the illusion), boredom gets cut off (its a negative resistance + a conceptual interpretation on top, all of that are appearances happening within Infinite True You). And all the other interpretations and reactions also, and they get replaced by the Sat Chit Ananda bliss of True Being. Which is also just fact. The True Being of God is Sat Chit Ananda. Any resistance and suffering is just the illusion of the ignorant ego. That becomes totally clear when these awakened states have become accessible in a stable way.

Act 3: Indras Net, and the One (Infinite) without a second
Apparently, other perspectives of YOUR Infinite Net of perspectives/holons/being (Indras Net), which YOU forget in real-time (you need just one more dimension for these other beings you forget in real-time), manifest this whole show (the so called Archetypes (in former times Gods/Deities or Platos Archetypes, nowadays Leos Aliens of various kinds, see Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven, or the books of Stan Grof). These beings/perspectives have an Intelligence which makes a human appear very limited. Some like to call it alien. Some divine. Some archetypal. Yet, its all True You at the same time.

How all of that has to be necessarily ones own True Being is paradoxical from the un-enlightened perspective, yet no problem when "other" falls away in Enlightenment as just a conceptual-arising. Or more precisely, I-feelings and I-thoughts and projecting-other-feeling and other concepts on "something" arising in ones True Nondual Infinite Being drops away.

Act 4: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Just to put this into perspective,”
I was in a condition of consciousness that might best be described as “ancient.”
Surveying what had been unfolding through billions of years of evolution and what
would be emerging in humanity’s future, I was not so much in the material domain as
in a domain that was responsible for generating material reality. Matter always exists
at a specific time, but I was encompassing many time-moments simultaneously and
so was stretched across time. The experience carried with it a sense of being “timefilled”
or “ancient.”
In the middle of this grand tour, it was as if something said, “Just to put this into
perspective,” and then the most extraordinary thing happened. The physical universe
began to be folded up and put away. It was as simple as that, like one puts away
Christmas decorations after the holidays. The physical universe, planets surging with
vitality, whole galaxies teeming with life, started to be folded up and slipped into a
background of total EMPTINESS. I immediately recognized that this was the Primal
Void. I was being shown that matter and time are not ultimately real, that they
emerge from and are at every moment sustained by something that is more real,
something completely without form.
As the universe got smaller with each fold, I could feel billions of life-forms being
slipped into the folds of the Void, and a protest rose within me. I did not want to let go
of all this exquisitely beautiful form, everything that had been so painstakingly crafted
through billions of years of evolution. Indeed, it was my love for the physical universe
that seemed to precipitate this extreme lesson—as if to break the spell that physical
creation had on me, seen as I had seen it in the broad sweep of its evolutionary
glory. My protests changed nothing, however, and the universe’s bursting vitality
became fainter with each fold.
As the universe continued to shrink, my experience began to shift to what was
swallowing it. What had been background was becoming foreground and capturing
my attention. It was SILENCE like I had never experienced silence before. It was
STILLNESS more still than I had ever known. And most strange of all, I experienced
its emergence as a REMEMBERING. I was remembering something that it seemed I
had lost contact with billions of years ago. The shock of remembering something so
ancient left me stunned. In one second, it completely transformed my sense of what I
was. Our memories define the boundaries of our being. In one sudden movement, I
was remembering a sea of Infinite Formlessness that was the source of all Form,
including my own form, and I knew that this was what “I” at root was.

Act 5. Chris Bache,. LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: Then “God” asked me, “Is it all for nothing? Have we not learned anything?

The Jolts of Non-Being 
Flowing on the energy of the universe, suddenly everything was turned off and then
on again. Everything that is, suddenly was not—POW—then was again. This
happened repeatedly. The universe kept vanishing. The jolts were the winking out of
Being into Non-Being.
In the cessation of the universe, all the world’s striving, yearning, and suffering
was suddenly thrown into a new perspective. This was the substance of God. The
question is not “Why are we doing it?” The question is “Why is God doing it?” Why is
God unfolding himself/herself/itself as the universe? What is it for?
In this burgeoning of life, God seemed to be knowing himself. “Either it’s this
teaming mass of life or it’s this!”—POW—Nothingness. Either the One becoming our
infinitely rich universe, or the Void.
Then “God” asked me, “Is it all for nothing? Have we not learned anything?” and
he turned as if to ponder his failure. This shattered me and I wept. Non-Being and
Being were two different modes of God. In the choice of Being, there unfolded the
entirety of life as it is, with all its mysteries, pains, and pleasures. It all seemed to be
about learning. “Have we not learned anything?” I felt shattered by the vastness of
God’s adventure in knowing himself. All the galaxies had continued to turn while I
was in hell today. Suns flared into supernovas, and all this was him. Nothing was not
him. “Have we not learned anything?” I was silenced.

Act 6: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Have we not learned anything?” This time it carried overtones of: “Has it not been worthwhile? Has it not been an adventure? Look what would not exist if we had not chosen to create.”

This mysterious progression repeated itself many times and in many variations. It
continued for hours. I would be at one level of reality far beyond physical diversity,
and as I sought to know this reality more deeply, I would experience a kind of dying,
a falling away, and would slip into a new level where I would discover that this duality
too was but another facet of Myself. Over and over again, in detailed progressions, I
was led to the same fundamental encounter.
No matter how many times I died or how many different forms I was when I died,
I kept being caught by this massive SOMETHING, this IT. I could not leave IT, could
not escape IT, could not not be IT. No matter how many adventures I had been on, I
had never stepped outside IT, never stopped being IT. There simply was no outside
to My Being. There was no other in existence.
As I moved into these levels of increasing ontological simplicity, I entered a
profound stillness that reawakened a distant, vague memory. “Where have I known
this before?” By following this stillness, I was guided back to what seemed like a time
before creation, back to the ontological fount of creation. In this stillness, I was “with
Myself” in ways that I had been long ago, but not for billions of years. It was a time of
reunion, a time of being whole after a terribly long separation.
From this extraordinary position, I began to actually be able to conceive of the
possibility of the physical universe not having been created. The alternatives stood
starkly before me. On one side was all the planning, all the work, all the confusion
and uncertainty, and especially all the terrible suffering that was so fresh in my mind
from earlier in the session. On the other side was the profound stillness and richness
that was my current state. Why do it? Why manifest the universe if at such a cost?
An answer rose that was the same as I had been given before, in session 15:
“Have we not learned anything?” This time it carried overtones of: “Has it not been
worthwhile? Has it not been an adventure? Look what would not exist if we had not
chosen to create.” This time I was not shattered, for the choice of creation seemed
profoundly good. The thought that the entire physical universe might not have existed
carried with it a terrible sadness. From this perspective, I was also able to feel that
there was no fundamental flaw in the manifest order of creation. Despite all the
suffering, everything was moving along fine—though it is profoundly unfinished.
I continued to ask my questions:
“What is happening here?”
“How does this work?”
“What has it been like for you?”
With each question, my experiential field changed, opening me to one cosmic
process after another. I cannot describe these experiences adequately because the
categories of thought derived from space-time do not lend themselves to
remembering clearly or translating into words experiences of realities that lie outside
space-time. Though my ordinary waking consciousness is being gradually changed
by these experiences, it is still too cognitively restricted to be able to hold on to them
in sufficient detail. What I experienced, however, repeatedly swept me into ecstasy.
“Amazing!”
“So that’s how that works!”
“Oh, goodness!”
“How much do you want to see?” I was asked. “More!” I answered, and always more
would unfold. It kept unfolding for hours.

Act 7: Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven: “Go and create, My Children.”
Let me backtrack to another layer of the experience. As I was re-assimilating my
lives and ascending through various levels, I was also entering into intimate dialogue
with a Presence that addressed me. It communed with me and “spoke” to me in
messages that were only sometimes put into words. It was explaining to me what I
was experiencing not so much with words but with direct illumination.
When I reached the point of Diamond Light, I was lifted beyond physical
existence and beyond the bardo echoes of physical existence. It felt like I had reassimilated
all my incarnations on Earth, that I had brought back into one all my
experiences in duality. From this point, which carried the flavor of both before and
after physical existence, the Presence illumined for me the human project. With the
deepest, most tender words of a divine parent, It said:
“Go and create, My Children.”
It was setting us loose in a cosmos that contained many realms. The one I had just
reemerged from was only one among many universes, some of which were physical,
others not. We were small aspects of this Being, truly Its children, of the same type,
only smaller in size and capacity.

 

Act 8. Water by the River sits in Sat Chit Ananda on a park bench, relaxes the self-contraction of his former character-gig into Infinite Liberation of True Being, looking at all beings who believe in their separation and whose suffering and resistance keeps the whole gig going. 

He remembers quoting from Chris Baches incredible journey told in "LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven", and how he had to pass the Ocean of Suffering on his high-dose-LSD-journey before any of these higher realms which detailed the Karmic mechanisms and the reasons for manifestation (even if it means initial suffering) were disclosed for him.

This time, however, I was refusing to surrender to the pain and rejected
everything that was happening to me. Eventually, I was backed up against a
psychological wall and was told that if I persisted in rejecting the suffering, I
would be turning my back on humanity, on life itself. To not care seemed to
be the ultimate existential withdrawal from life. With multiple scenarios
echoing this refrain, I was being confronted with an absolute choice of
whether to open to this pain or not. At this point, my “No” changed to a
“Yes.” This transition felt like a conversion in the deepest religious sense.
In the middle of terrible suffering I found myself saying, “Yes! I can make a
difference. Yes! I accept responsibility.” I was accepting responsibility for the anguish
and for trying to make a difference in the lives surrounding me. This shift was
fundamental. It reached to depths I cannot now fathom and impacted me in ways I
cannot summarize. It seemed a free choice on the most basic of questions.
With this acceptance, the torment suddenly changed to positive themes. Themes
of young children—happy excitement, delighted play, self-abandoned joy. Many
scenarios of childhood wonder and adventure. This was the beginning of a “new
way.” It contrasted with the former negative way in every respect. It was simple
instead of chaotic, shared instead of individual, fresh instead of repetitive. I felt
cleansed and made new. (S 17)

Apparently, the high-dose LSD psychedelic journey seemed to demand something like a Boddhisattva-Comittment in order to open these divine-realms and the mechanics of archetypal creation-realms, Karma & reincarnation, which apparently don't get opened so much (if at all) with other psychedelic like 5-MeO.

Maybe God has left some safety-elements in place so that Liberation  from the egoic separate-self-contraction can not so easily be achieved if it all is done only for the separate-self gig and its curiosity in "understanding".

 

Act 9: Where there is not THIS, there is only suffering

 

Act 10: Yaeoko, in Three Pillars of Zen, Kapleau: Now for the first time.

"Now for the first time you have found the Way—fully realized your
Mind. You have been delivered from delusion, which has no abiding root.
Wonderful! Wonderful!
There is neither Ox (God/Reality as object out there) nor man."

So who exactly is reading these words again? Who is reading these lines? Which is that silent Awareness having it all appearing in its Infinite and eternal Being? And did it all ever truly happen?

And who said “Go and create, My Children.”?

 

Selling the drama by the River

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River great reading! 

[Ajax]

18 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

The assertion that God is limitless while also claiming that God created everything out of boredom presents a significant contradiction. If God is truly devoid of desire, then the notion of transforming into a human to express such a sentiment seems illogical.

Consider this: if an angel were to grant you three wishes,1. To be incredibly wealthy, 2. The ability to fly, and 3. The assurance that you could never be harmed,wouldn’t you eagerly accept? Let's be honest; it would be foolish to deny such desires. It is indeed quite foolish, as a person does not want to be overly limited, so why would God want to be?

First, Logic is a physical thing. It is comparing something to something else.God is external to that... outside of matter energy space and time and even existance. Logic in one universe doesn't necessarily apply to another one. Boredom is something we can relate to, but doesn't necessarily reflect God's point of view. They are just words used to assist in understanding.

 

second paragraph... Why are you assigning cause, and source, creation over your self? Why do you wish to assume the role of being effect? Why aren't you living? What are you hiding? What are preventing? Who are you blaming?  Those are limitations you are creating. We only object to a lack of choice, not having the power of choice.  To be in want(lacking of) of truth causes limitations. Quite frankly you sound confused... And it's making me confused. Lol.

Know truth and you shall set yourself free. Freedom is the ability to assume any viewpoint, logical or not by your own decision to do so. what is holding you back? Know yourself before you know god and his plan... Otherwise you are just guessing.

LOVE

Edited August 30 by Ajax

[gettoefl]

11 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

I don't believe that God created out of boredom; that's merely Leo's perspective. It simply doesn't make sense to me that God would choose to create anything at all, especially when He already possesses everything. Why would God abandon a perfect state to engage in the struggles of a flawed human existence, filled with confusion and unnecessary suffering? 

If you, as a human being, were to suddenly gain superpowers, you wouldn't simply discard them, you would want to keep them forever! Now, consider the notion of an all-powerful God choosing to limit Himself by becoming human. It seems absurd. While I can agree that God could become human, wouldn't it make sense for Him to retain the memory of His divine nature? Why couldn’t He do that? God could still experience life even while knowing He is God. It raises the question: is it not foolish for an omniscient being to forget His own identity? This is a thought-provoking dilemma.

god abandons the perfect stage only because you are churning out thoughts that he does

he never abandoned the throne of love, it is just a cute story you tell people and try to make it ring true as best you can

you abandoned him, he never abandons you

you prefer your grandiose illusions and to maintain those come what may

your suffering here is one thing: you live a lie and will bang your head against the wall to keep living a lie

god knows nothing of your life and suffering; he couldn't! he is too busy enjoying what really exists

but fear not, you have the memory of god and that's why you keep writing posts about him

so one day or one lifetime - up to you - you will get it