How overstated is the political polarization in the US?

[Hardkill]

Even though the US has become the most politically divided it has been since the antebellum of the Civil War, what if the polarization in the US has really been largely confined to the political elites, such as candidates, donors, and activists, rather than the general public?

Abortion: Despite being considered a highly polarizing issue, a significant majority (60-67%) of Americans believe abortion should be available, indicating broad consensus.

Immigration: Most Americans support a balanced approach that includes both border security and comprehensive reform with a pathway to citizenship, rather than being strictly divided on the issue.

Gun control: A majority of Americans favor reasonable measures like universal background checks and red flag laws, showing that public opinion is more nuanced than polarized.

I think we need to highlight the importance of distinguishing between elite-level polarization and public opinion. While political leaders and activists may hold strongly divergent views, the broader public may be more open to compromise and consensus. This perspective could encourage us to look beyond the noise of partisan politics and focus on finding common ground.

Then again, why have the results of many big elections since the 2010s been much closer than they should be?

Edited August 29 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

People aren't so polarized on the policy issues. They are polarized in the culture wars and just the tribal battle between left and right, mainstream and anti-mainstream, and all sorts of echo-chambers, epistemic bubbles, conspiracy theories, memes, and constructed identities.

The polarization is all a product of media bullshitry, not anything substantive.

People are mostly fighting over alternative fantasies.

Edited August 29 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

People aren't so polarized on the policy issues. They are polarized in the culture wars and just the tribal battle between left and right, mainstream and anti-mainstream, and all sorts of echo-chambers, epistemic bubbles, conspiracy theories, memes, and constructed identities.

The polarization is all a product of media bullshitry, not anything substantive.

People are mostly fighting over alternative fantasies.

So, it's because all of these factors which have caused this level of polarization have caused most voters to feel like they have no choice but to choose the candidate that they perceive closer to their ideology even if that candidate happens to be extreme?

Also, how do you think Democrats can dominate the messaging war in the terrible media environment we are in?

[Alex4]

Elites disagree far less on policies than we generally think. To some extent, conspiracy theorists are right in believing that opposing politicians get along well and that their disagreements are minimal. Where they are wrong is in thinking that's bad per se.

Notice how the public reacts when politicians get along well, people assume they must be conspiring and plotting something evil, while when they argue, it can be seen as polarizing society. Either way, the politician is viewed as doing something wrong or evil.

Politicians mostly act based on what people want; if they act in a polarizing way, it's because they know it will win them votes. Political parties are constantly tracking electoral polls. However, I recognize that in some cases, it is the politicians who initiate a conflict. That conflict might have already been simmering in society, but there are indeed politicians who light the fuse—I know a very good example of this which happened in my country (Spain). 

That said, I personally believe that citizens bear more responsibility than politicians. Sometimes politicians know what the right decision is but don't make it because they're afraid of the public's reaction. In these situations I blame the politician for their lack of leadership.

Edited August 29 by Alex4

[enchanted]

The current polarization is toxic and hypocritical. Ironically, both sides condemn personal attacks (e.g., mocking appearance, speech, or mannerisms), yet frequently employ these same tactics as insults.

[Jacob Morres]

I think the civil rights movement in the 50s - 70s could arguably be considered even more polarized than today 

[ryandesreu]

It's a combination of money-hungry media and the extreme, overzealous, online minority that is creating this illusion of polarization. That's my belief. 

I personally hold moderate positions on the 3 issues above.

[Consept]

On 01/09/2024 at 5:39 PM, ryandesreu said:

It's a combination of money-hungry media and the extreme, overzealous, online minority that is creating this illusion of polarization. That's my belief. 

I personally hold moderate positions on the 3 issues above.

I think the main culprit is us not knowing how to handle social media as a society. If you think about it propaganda has been an extremely effective tool throughout history. With social media we gave anyone full reign to distribute propaganda to a captive audience of basically billions. 

This has allowed entities that know that their policy positions aren't the majority to manipulate an audience and get people on their side through misinformation and tactics. Or even at its worst let foreign governments or entities interfere with other countries populstions and try and sway their beliefs for their own benefit. 

Since the inception of social media you can see a direct correlation in terms of the polarisation 

[ryandesreu]

9 hours ago, Consept said:

I think the main culprit is us not knowing how to handle social media as a society. If you think about it propaganda has been an extremely effective tool throughout history. With social media we gave anyone full reign to distribute propaganda to a captive audience of basically billions. 

This has allowed entities that know that their policy positions aren't the majority to manipulate an audience and get people on their side through misinformation and tactics. Or even at its worst let foreign governments or entities interfere with other countries populstions and try and sway their beliefs for their own benefit. 

Since the inception of social media you can see a direct correlation in terms of the polarisation 

This is true. It isn't just the media causing polarization, it is also the consumer choosing to believe the narrative, along with other influencers contributing. 

[Consept]

16 minutes ago, ryandesreu said:

This is true. It isn't just the media causing polarization, it is also the consumer choosing to believe the narrative, along with other influencers contributing. 

I dont even know its so much the consumer 'choosing' to believe a narrative, i think now content creators can very accurately target users, hitting certain pain points and getting them into a pipeline that ends in them potentially being radicalized. For example it wouldnt be that hard for me to start a channel for incels where i focus on how important looks are and how bad women are etc I can use false or it least grey zone information, to further aggrevate them, then if i want to introduce a new idea to them it wouldnt be that hard because they now trust me. So really the issue is bad actors and people that distribute misinformation and disinformation, intentionally or even unintentionally  

[ryandesreu]

Certain radicals aren't even aware that they're being led on and you're right.

It's almost worse than, say, the tobacco industry or the fast food industry because at least their victims are aware of their problem. @Consept

Edited September 4 by ryandesreu

[DocWatts]

On the flip side of the coin, well-meaning optimists will sometimes understate the severity of the problem, and how challenging it's going to be to navigate our way out of the epistemological crisis were facing.

Obama comes to mind - hard to take the idea that "there's not a Red America and a Blue America, only a United States of America" seriously when liberals and conservatives are living in completely different epistemological and social realities.

A sizeable minority of the country has been steadily abandoning basic democratic norms, and our antiqued political institutions enables them to impose their will on the other %70 of the country through mechanisms that allow for minoritarian rule.

Trump's Cult has been conditioned into thinking that some semblance of equality for LGBTQ folks, and a handful of desperate people coming across the southern border carrying all of their belongings in a plastic bag, is tantamount to a slowly unfolding cultural genocide against 'white Christian culture'. (Fox News has more or less been propagating this exact point).

Edited September 4 by DocWatts