Who Loves Post-Modernism? - New Video

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, mmKay said:

What if your life is a house of cards that can crumble with a little shaking of your fundations?

That's a beautiful transformation right there.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

What I do know is that when I grasped the true nature of Meaning, Value and Purpose, I fell into a Dark Night of the Soul of pure relativism for a good 2-3 years in my early 20s before trascending it

Tell us more. I want to better understand how normies struggle and suffer from such issues, since I personally never did, so it's hard for me understand what the struggle is.

And explain how you managed to rise out of your funk.

Edited August 29 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, gambler said:

If morality is relative, then that means a lot of what I view as evil and wicked can be propagated by others.

But that happens regardless.

Morality doesn't stop evil. Morality IS evil.

[gambler]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

But that happens regardless.

Morality doesn't stop evil. Morality IS evil.

This is a statement that will make normies suffer

[royce]

o7

[Yimpa]

Breaking News:

 

Jesus IS a transexual!

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, royce said:

o7

Please pray for me 💀

[royce]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Please pray for me 💀

 

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Jesus IS a transexual!

No way. Jesus is an African attack helicopter.

Edited August 29 by Leo Gura

[Cocolove]

How to explain post-modernist insights to people who aren't construct aware.

How to use postmodernism throughout your life.

Should we use postmodernism to enhance conceptual understanding or to deconstruct our worldviews. Is it psychological or spiritual.

[Meliodas]

Are there different types of truth ? 
Linguistic truth / Rational Truth / TRUTH

[Exystem]

1. How to use PM philosophy to deconstruct PM philosophy (how to argue with a postmodernist on their level to get them realize the limitations and flaws of PM)

2. Which principles does PM accept/reject to do "valid science"? What about logic&mathematics?

3. Baudrillard refers to terms like simulacra and simulation. It has been picked up in the entry scene of the matrix. I would really love to see a spicy introduction of yours to lead us down into the crazy rabbit whole of PM where it first seems there is no way out.

When I was in school around 14 years old I had an existential crises - I realized for the first time that I really don't know anything at all actually. At that time my favorite quote was "I know that I don't know". I asked a philosophy teacher lots and lots of questions, like "how can I know that I don't act completely selfishly 24/7? Is there even anything like"true love"? At that point is every act of love just a desperate attempt to make me feel like a good guy and prove that I am not selfish?" I also kinda intuited some aspects of solipsism at that point. That I may actually only live for myself and that everyone may be a kind of means to a selfish end for me. He was quite wise and gave me answers like: "if you knew that "true love" definitely exists, wouldn't it then be a "necessity" to act out of true love? Would it be possible to act out of true love if you have to? Only by not knowing whether it actually exists or not but still deciding to act like it exists in good faith you can potentially act out of "true love"."
Of course this line of reasoning can be attacked again but at this time it gave me hope to reason myself logically out of the  rabbit hole. I used to try to answer almost every existential philosophical question in this kind of (rational) way like the question of free will. "You can either Believe (B) in free will or Not (N). There is either Free will (F) or everything is Determined (D)."  So there are four options: BF, NF, BD, ND. The last two are irrelevant since you could not decide otherwise, if everything is determined I am not responsible for or existentially stupid because of (dis)believing in free will, I would have done nothing wrong either way. But in the first case I may not believe in free will (NF) although free will exists which would be a bad choice since I may not be so motivated to "act good", would reject my full potential and live a life worse than when I believed in free will.
At that time this was a line of reasoning that made me convinced it is better to believe in free will than not. So I thought maybe every serious question can be answered in ways like that. Almost like a game theory approach to philosophy to find "the best strategy". I realized everything was relative but there are different relations between/proportions of the elements, which can be explored through logic and mathematics to at least determine a bigger/smaller, better/worse. I at least had some kind of orientation again. Before that, I struggled because I realized I don't know anything at all, could be a completely useless selfish parasite without even realising, completely deluded and lost. This scared me. I had no grip on reality to determine what is right or wrong, no starting point and no direction. I was raised extremely chrisitian so for me this was dangerous territory, I was used to have this fundament of someone telling me the truth of what is the right way to live.

Maybe that story helps you to understand a little better how normies can experience things like a postmodern shock.

 

[mmKay]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Tell us more. I want to better understand how normies struggle and suffer from such issues, since I personally never did, so it's hard for me understand what the struggle is.

And explain how you managed to rise out of your funk.

Thanks for calling me normie lol. Looking back I think my particular case was a little more extreme than the average normie that stumbles upon relativism


When I first realized the true nature of meaning, value, and purpose, it felt as if the very foundation of my reality had collapsed. Meditation already had begun this process, but your video on understanding these concepts burst my bubble in an aggressive and blunt way. Something which was definitely not the right time for or something that I was looking for at that moment, but I already was aware that curiosity kills the cat when I went down that rabbithole.

It was as if knocking over the first domino led to the rapid, uncontrollable, unstoppable collapse of my entire conceptual framework of reality. Once I realized that certain things were mere social, cultural, linguistic or human constructs, it didn’t take long for me to question EVERYTHING ELSE in my life or that I was capable of thinking of, leaving me with a profound sense of absolute groundlessness, and a freedom SO VAST that it was ABSOLUTELY TERRYFING.

One of the most insidious aspects of this relativism was how my ego hijacked it for self-serving purposes. When nothing holds inherent meaning, the ego can rationalize any behavior, no matter how destructive or self-defeating. I found myself trapped in this mindset, using relativism to justify my fears, addictions,  and self-destructive habits. Even though I knew, on some level, that judgments, rejection, and failure "shouldn't matter," I remained paralyzed by these fears. The ego thrived on the infinite double standards relativism allowed, twisting logic to maintain its grip. I would rationalize that personal development was pointless, meaningless, and biased, making no sense to pursue.
 

Growing up, I was deeply absorbed in video games. 10+ years of WoW. 5 years of LoL , besides of dozens of other videogames. The stories, quests, currencies, characters, competition, victories, defeats within those games were incredibly real to me, not just pixels on a screen. They provided real sense of progress, purpose and achievement. Realizing that these experiences were mere constructions was painful. It shattered the illusion I had built around them and took away a lot of enjoyment and escapism.
Some realizations like that my parents gave me my name, and that it could have been anything else, as of today seems so obvious and a surface level insight, but it's actually not obvious. I bet more than 3/4 of the human population is not aware of that and truly belives their name is real and belongs to them. I realized  that things don't have names, that we create them with arbitrary sounds and symbols and concepts, and that different things are called different ways in different languages, and we just use this system for comunication. It's not truth.

I realized  that morality, ethics, manners , good or bad are relative, that the law is groundless and relative ( and why it exists ) , that possessions aren't real but social and mental constructs,  that countries don't exist, money is a construct, that time is subjective and age doesn't really  exist. These realizations only worsened my sense of confusion and disorientation at the time.

I was 21 years old and had just started living on my own for the first time, fresh out of school. The world of meanings that had defined my life—exams, grades and worrying about what my classmates thought of me—crumbled away. Academia and the sense of safety it provided revealed themselves to be nothing more than a game and an illusion. The importance I had placed on these things disintegrated, leaving me feeling utterly groundless and foolish, like I had wasted all that time.

As this process unfolded, I came to a realization that no matter what happens, everything is "absolutely okay." This insight led me to stop inhibiting my impulses, which inevitably pulled me toward distractions, addictions, and comfort.

Days turned into weeks, and weeks into months as time flew by, and I found myself increasingly detached from any sense of purpose or direction. I stopped judging and moralizing my actions, instead choosing to simply observe whatever I was doing and go with it. This approach dissolved much of the internal resistance I once felt and allowed me to sink deeper into the present moment, for better or worse, which ended up just leading me to seek out comfort and pleasure while avoiding discomfort and pain. For weeks, I would lie in bed, utterly unmotivated and aimless. The female attention and aprooval I once craved stopped being meaningful. I convinced myself that day and night didn’t truly exist, so there was no reason to wake up at any specific time. I saw no point in maintaining basic hygiene or even wearing clothes the "right" way. I would go to the supermarket unshowered, wearing dirty clothes, messy hair and shirts backwards and inside out , rationalizing that there was no right or wrong way to dress. When I had a part time job at a restaurant, I remember letting some customers walk away without paying because in my mind it didn't matter.

My sense of self-importance crumbled as well. I realized I was no more significant than a fly or a cockroach, and this realization left me feeling profoundly insignificant and purposeless. Even ending my own life literally didn't make sense, something I never considered seriously.
 

This extreme relativism led me to a state of profound laziness but also access to unconditional happiness. I found that I could lie in bed for months, feeling ecstatic, almost like what I imagine being high on heroin is like, without needing to do anything to achieve this happiness. This was an absolute ambition killer. The sense of meaninglessness was so deeply embedded in my mind that any attempt to take action felt like a distraction, causing emotional resistance. It was as if taking any step away from doing nothing would shatter the fragile peace I had found in this state of inaction.

I didn't know who or what I was anymore. I realized that identity, what you yourself identify as, is absolutely groundless and are just meaningless or self-constructed labels. The one thing that didn't crumble was my sexuality. I considered that if absolute relativity is true then everyone is in actuality pansexuaI. But in practice I was just not attracted to men. Period. I didn't need identify as a man , adult or human for the validity truthfulness of my feelings of attraction and preference to whatever I perceived as an attractive female.

This shift also marked a clear and sharp transition from analytical thinking to a primarily intuitive approach to life. Intuition gradually became my core mode of operation, guiding my decisions and shaping my reality. I began to connect with and respect my emotions in a way I hadn’t before. Emotions became central to my experience, driving my choices and dictating how I engaged with the world. At that time, this intuitive, emotion-driven way of living was deeply ingrained in me, and emotions, feelings, and intuition were the only ground I could rely on.
 

The descent into relativism also isolated me from others, as I saw them as characters in a game - NPCs,  unaware of the constructed nature of their realities. It was a lonely existence, like  living in a "Truman Show" where everyone else was oblivious to the truth. Every person I encountered was locked into their own paradigm of understanding the world, unconscious of the constructed nature of their reality. No one would understand me. I couldn't relate to anyone and actually people would judge me and reject me for thinking or talking in these ways. People said I was depressed, when actually I felt more sane  than them but confused.
 

This descent into nihilism and relativism eventually pushed me toward "mysticism". As I understood the nature of meaning, language, and concepts, I also deeply understood I didn’t know what anything was anymore; I faced deep not-knowing. I intuitively began practicing "neti neti"  meditation and "actuality meditation," which led to temporary heightened states of consciousness and experiences of non-symbolic awareness. These practices helped me trascend the conceptual limits of the mind and connect with a reality beyond words, thoughts and even perception, leading to things like  seeing the ox' tail with what I think is a samaddhi experience ( this entire " perception bubble" is  made out of the" same stuff" , even "me", the observer, is made out of the same " stuff ") , the insight that thoughts literally APPEAR INTO EXISTENCE from pure nothingness in the most direct way possible, and later some accidental astral projection. I also realized that non-duallity is so non dual it entails duallity, which just mindf*cked me again, and that I was engaging in spiritual bypasing.

Eventually, though the pass of time, the school of hard knocks,  awareness , trial and error and tremendous amounts of confusion and needless suffering, , I began to see that while all things might be meaningless, there is a universal law of cause and effect. Both cause and effect are meaningless in themselves, but they have real consequences nevertheless, and I personally have real preferences toward certain consequences over others. To deny that would be self-deception. It's obvious but it did not make sense for so long.  For instance, I would rather be free than in jail.  This is a child-mind level insight I had to re-learn.
I realized that being bummed out by meaninglesness is a mental fallacy. Meaninglesness is meaninglessness, not negative.

These realizations helped me begin to rebuild my life by recognizing that life itself operates with a deeper intelligence that transcends these constructs, with inherent logic and rules that we discover through trial and error and direct experience. I realized that relativism doesn’t hold up in the practical world; it’s only a limitation of the mind, logic, conceptual frameworks, and language. Being locked in this experience and perspective of being · an alive human being · comes with specific biases and preferences. Something obvious but aparently, not so obvious.
 

This going full cirlcle understanding allowed me to see the limits of Relativism and Nihilism : They overlook nature's nature.




hence my signature

Edited August 30 by mmKay

[El Zapato]

Postmodernism is just another societal transition.  If one gets fixated on it they lose perspective. It is a product of too many spiritually clueless people on social media.  People that are beneath the level of attention that they get.  Jordan Peterson is the worst advocate of all things meaninful.

[Ulax]

What is the relationship between baldness and postmodernism?

[Leo Gura]

@Exystem Thanks for sharing.

@mmKay Wow! Awesome share. Thank you.

[Davino]

@mmKay I loved reading that.

I've discovered that most philosophies don't survive the meta process.

Skepticism, being skeptic of skepticism.

Relativism, being relative of relativism.

Nihilism, being nihilist about nihilism.

And so on.

Consciousness for example allows all meta. Every time I wanna test the robustness of a system or philosophy I apply meta to itself and see if it survives.

[El Zapato]

20 hours ago, Ulax said:

What is the relationship between baldness and postmodernism?

Age...I just had a random thought...New Age.   Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

[El Zapato]

On 8/29/2024 at 5:52 PM, Yimpa said:

Breaking News:

 

Jesus IS a transexual!

you blasphemer, he is clearly asexual...

[El Zapato]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:58 PM, Leo Gura said:

Tell us more. I want to better understand how normies struggle and suffer from such issues, since I personally never did, so it's hard for me understand what the struggle is.

And explain how you managed to rise out of your funk.

hmm, normies don't have such issues. Only those with an intrinsic nature are conducive to experience of that kind. By definition 'normies' are not in that group.  Some are gifted in the process but I'm not sure one can skip steps unless truly beyond the beyond.  Someone on the forum cited Ken Wilber, he seems to have fallen prey to his ego as so many do.  Despite that, he is among the more insightful philosophers I have read in the last few years.