Who Loves Post-Modernism? - New Video

[Yimpa]

20 minutes ago, Davino said:

How are we gonna interpret that?

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura i was never really interested in politics. Thanks to your videos especially this new one I am hooked.

[Davino]

@Leo Gura Yes, I supposed. I let you cook chef

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Shall we never forget Jordan Peterson's post-modernism song.

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Shall we never forget Jordan Peterson's post-modernism song.

 

But does that cat know it's a cat?

[Clarence]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But does that cat know it's a cat?

Is there a way to answer that question?

So, what we're really asking, is whether the cat makes a difference between "self'' and "not-self"?

Or is it to know whether the cat actually knows the concept of cat as humans use it?

[aurum]

23 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Shall we never forget Jordan Peterson's post-modernism song.

 

I’ve never seen that before.

Embarrassing.

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Shall we never forget Jordan Peterson's post-modernism song.

 

I still don't know how to interpret that. The ultimate post modernism paradox.

 

[Yimpa]

Conservatives are so full of themselves. They think that they understand Richard Rorty when they can't even understand Richard Rohr for crying out loud.

Edited September 2 by Yimpa

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Shall we never forget Jordan Peterson's post-modernism song.

 

Textbook example of a strawman and poisoning the well.

How many JP fans could articulate what PM is and what core philosophical insights it's based on? Or the limitations of modernism?

Edited September 2 by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

The video was the nail in the coffin of understanding that western modernism gave the foundation for my values in a barely modernized country.

Edited September 2 by Nemra

[Keryo Koffa]

I fed Chat some PM cake and here's how it described the flavor, makes it easier to organize into holons.

Introduction to Postmodernism

• Definition: Postmodernism critiques the assumptions of modernism, focusing on the relativity of truth and the construction of knowledge.
• Context: Emerged as a reaction against modernist principles, challenging grand narratives and absolute truths.
• Modernism vs. Postmodernism: Modernism emphasizes objective reality and rationality, while postmodernism highlights subjectivity and relativism.
• Importance: Understanding postmodernism is crucial for grasping contemporary philosophical debates.
• Critiques of Modernism: Postmodernism argues that modernist claims of objective truth are flawed and that all knowledge is socially constructed.
• Role of Language: Language is seen as a medium that constructs reality rather than merely representing it.
• Impact on Knowledge: Questions the stability and objectivity of knowledge, suggesting it is influenced by power structures and cultural contexts.

Key Concepts and Theories

• Relativism: Asserts that truth and moral values are relative to individual or cultural perspectives.
• Social Constructionism: Claims that knowledge and reality are constructed through social processes and interactions.
• Deconstruction: A method of analyzing texts and ideas to reveal underlying assumptions and biases.
• Hyperreality: Describes the blurring of reality and representation, where simulations or media representations become more significant than the real.
• Pastiche and Parody: Postmodernism often employs pastiche and parody to subvert traditional narratives and challenge established norms.
• Critique of Meta-Narratives: Rejects overarching, universal narratives in favor of fragmented, localized stories.
• Pluralism: Embraces diverse perspectives and voices, challenging dominant discourses.

The Evolution and Challenges

• Historical Development: Postmodernism evolved from dissatisfaction with modernist ideals, influenced by various intellectual movements.
• Critiques: Some argue that postmodernism leads to relativism that undermines the possibility of meaningful discourse or moral standards.
• Application: Postmodernist ideas are applied in various fields such as literature, art, and sociology.
• Intersection with Politics: Postmodernism intersects with political movements, often challenging established power structures and ideologies.
• Philosophical Tensions: Tensions arise between postmodern skepticism and the pursuit of objective knowledge.
• Influence on Culture: Postmodernism influences contemporary culture, media, and art, emphasizing fragmentation and diversity.
• Criticisms of Relativism: Concerns about relativism potentially leading to nihilism or the erosion of shared values.

Practical Implications and Examples

• Cultural Impact: Postmodernism affects how culture is produced and consumed, emphasizing pastiche, irony, and parody.
• Media and Representation: Challenges traditional notions of representation and reality in media and popular culture.
• Education: Influences educational approaches, promoting critical thinking and questioning of established narratives.
• Political Discourse: Alters political discourse by questioning the legitimacy of dominant ideologies and narratives.
• Personal Identity: Highlights the fluidity of personal identity and the influence of social contexts on self-perception.
• Art and Literature: Postmodern art and literature often blur boundaries between high and low culture, reality and fiction.
• Ethics and Morality: Questions absolute moral values and promotes a more context-dependent approach to ethics.

Critiques and Defenses

• Modernist Criticisms: Modernists criticize postmodernism for its perceived relativism and rejection of objective truth.
• Postmodern Defense: Postmodernists argue that their approach reveals the limitations of modernist claims and offers a more nuanced understanding.
• Intellectual Rigor: Debates over whether postmodernism provides sufficient intellectual rigor or devolves into relativistic nihilism.
• Impact on Academia: Postmodernism’s influence on academia has led to both innovations and controversies in various fields.
• Philosophical Debates: Ongoing debates about the validity and implications of postmodernist theories.
• Cultural Reactions: Different cultural and ideological groups react differently to postmodernism, often based on their own values and assumptions.
• Integration with Other Theories: Discussions about how postmodernism interacts with other philosophical and cultural theories.

Personal Reflections and Recommendations

• Personal Journey: The speaker’s personal journey through modernism and postmodernism, reflecting on their impact.
• Integration of Insights: Encourages integrating useful insights from both modernism and postmodernism for a more comprehensive worldview.
• Cognitive Development: Emphasizes the importance of cognitive development in understanding and applying postmodern insights.
• Philosophical Evolution: Suggests moving beyond postmodernism to explore new stages of cognitive and philosophical development.
• Critical Thinking: Advocates for critical thinking and openness to new perspectives, even when challenging established beliefs.
• Avoiding Extremes: Warns against extreme or dogmatic positions, whether in favor of or against postmodernism.
• Future Exploration: Encourages continued exploration of philosophical and cognitive advancements beyond postmodernism.

Right-Wing Critiques and the Path Forward

• Right-Wing Misunderstanding: Criticizes right-wing figures, particularly Jordan Peterson, for misrepresenting postmodernism.
• Emotional Reactions: Highlights that right-wing critiques often stem from emotional reactions rather than rational understanding.
• Straw Man Arguments: Accuses critics of using straw man arguments to discredit postmodernism.
• Conservative Perspective: Discusses why conservatives react negatively to postmodernism, focusing on their attachment to established norms and identities.
• Green Postmodernist Shadow: Warns against adopting reactionary stances against postmodernism that mirror conservative critiques.
• Truth vs. Survival: Distinguishes between the pursuit of truth and concerns about survival or identity.
• Future Content: Promises future content exploring higher stages of cognitive development beyond postmodernism.

[Keryo Koffa]

And here's some Brainstorming Abstraction Fusion

10

• Relativism + Subjectivity + Truth = Epistemology
• Social Constructionism + Power + Knowledge = Constructivism
• Deconstruction + Critique + Discourse = Analysis
• Hyperreality + Representation + Cultural Impact = Media
• Pastiche + Parody + Irony = Artistry
• Pluralism + Identity + Narratives = Diversity
• Ethics + Morality = Values
• Fragmentation + Modernism + Skepticism = Philosophy
• Postmodernism = Movement
• Meta-Narratives + Knowledge = Theory

5

• Epistemology + Constructivism = Knowledge
• Analysis + Theory = Critique
• Media + Artistry = Representation
• Diversity + Values = Identity
• Philosophy + Movement = Postmodernism

3

• Knowledge = Understanding
• Critique = Evaluation
• Representation + Identity + Postmodernism = Culture

 

• Understanding: Encompasses epistemology and constructivism, focusing on how we know and construct knowledge.
• Evaluation: Includes analysis and theory, representing the critical examination of ideas.
• Culture: Integrates representation, identity, and postmodernism, reflecting the broader impact on societal norms and narratives.

[Exystem]

Hey @Leo Gura,

Just wanted to thank you a lot for the new video and all the work that went into it (also the decades of personal development work that became obvious again)!!! I really enjoyed it, it was not only very clear and clean, I am convinced it also helps me a lot to talk about the profound insights of postmodernism in a way others with a more (pre-)modernist can understand it. It seems obvious to me that the greatest part of your style of presnting this topic is the fact that you really speak a language a lot of people can understand while maintaining a high standard of abstraction und universality. You are like a great scientist who discovers entangled virtual strangeloop-quantum-ripples and expains it in a few sentences, so even children can get a hint what it refers to while other scientists get stunned by the same words and get new insights that recontextualize their models of reality. I intuit this is really just the beginning, but it was a great pleasure to listen to you already!

My heart is filled with love right now, I am deeply touched by the beauty of the fact that I can listen to this talk and have much more satisfaction than watching AI porn or a great movie. It feels more like my favorite band has released a new album and it is tuned in 53edo instead of 12 (the future of music in my opinion). Parts of me just feel very seen and connected, I have rather few people with whom I can dive down these depths (at this level of abstraction and holism) and everytime I watch a video of yours there are parts of me that feel like you meet the only friend with whom you can talk about a specific topic or who understands you. I know this is just the beginning, but the teasers you gave at the end were just... Awwwwwww Thank you Leo!!!

I am really looking forward for your next videos <3

[Leo Gura]

@Exystem Thanks. Glad you liked it.

[TheEnigma]

What if the world ends before it even moves beyond modernism? I hear many people say, America for example isn't going to move past stage orange for most people. It will just stay in this stage and get worse, where the rich get richer, and more thinning capitalism etc. Also is there something beyond post modernism? And what are those things that are highest stages of cognitive development?

Edited September 3 by TheEnigma

[El Zapato]

13 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Not kindly...courtesy of those who wish this was 1824.

[Nemra]

4 hours ago, TheEnigma said:

Also is there something beyond post modernism?

@TheEnigma, Leo mentions in the video. 😏

[Cireeric]

Im halfway through it and im impressed by the video! This really feels like a progression of the work of Actualized. The AI-training style of teaching on topics like Maturity was great and valuable but to have this on such a complex topic like Postmodernism is pure genius. Im studying social-science in university and postmodernism comes up as a  topic all the time but I feel like almost nobody can really pin it down or describe it in a clear and precise way like this. I can see and appreciate the gifts and value of postmodernism way more now.

Edited September 3 by Cireeric

[psychedelaholic]

@Leo Gura

Hadn't been properly introduced to pre, current, post modernism prior to this video! Refreshing to learn a framework to place some of my behaviour and experiences into that makes sense. I have some anecdotes from my life that I think are relative to the subject. When I was younger and still pretty wet behind the ears in understanding/visualizing/conceptualizing any amount of metaphysics, I would have ideas about reality and would frequently have frustrating conversations with people about said ideas. I'm sure partly due to my inability to concisely explain insights that were only just dawning on me, and partly people being unwilling to entertain ideas that challenge their understanding.

During college I would frequently limit test by seeing what the people around me were able to entertain; be that making radical or bold statements about reality or society, just to open up discourse wherein I'd get to find out what other people's perspectives were, get a glimpse of their psychology and use the interactions as critical thinking to challenge my own ideas.

Seemingly unconsciously I've developed and applied this breakaway style of thinking to life since I was a teenager, it's humorous that you bring up the flat earth example. When I was 16-17 I actually contemplated whether the Earth was flat or not for a solid month or two. Looked at the people trying to claim evidence that it's flat, looked at the other side claiming evidence that it's round. Ultimately I sat myself on a hill at sunrise one morning and resolved the internal dilemma with this realization that came to me in that; regardless of whether I think the Earth is flat or round, it has basically no pronounced effect on my reality in the moment.

That I walk away from that lengthy contemplation with my answer being "maybe it is, maybe it isn't, either perspective holds validity" and even if it could be deemed meaningless to actively carry around the notion that the earth is flat, the same can also be said for the notion that it's round. I think most people would say it's ridiculous to spend 1-2 months contemplating if the Earth is round or flat, because when asked they would make a firm definite statement about it relative to their beliefs, ie: "I already know the answer"

Though I hadn't done a lot of digging into the specifics of modernism, post modernism etc.. I have however invested a lot of energy delving into spirituality, philosophy, taking psychedelics, self inquiry, contemplation and self reflection on information I come across relative to my own experience. I've also always questioned everything even as a child, since I could form coherent thoughts.

So I seemingly bumbled my way into it, and I've learned through interacting with others that I have quite divergent or radical thoughts on the conventions of reality and or societal systems, relative to the general consensus.

In one instance I argued with one of my college professors that time was merely an imagined construction of the mind, he scoffed and retorted

"no it's not, time is real because I can walk outside, look at the position of the sun in the sky and tell what time it is" lol.

Even people I know to be intelligent display great resistance entertaining the idea that their mind is not quietly observing an external objective reality, but constructing reality subjectively. What's funny about what my prof replied with is that he's unconsciously using his mind to reinforce his paradigm, in the same way one could consciously consider alternative perspectives outside of a given way of seeing reality.

The statement also makes the assumption that time is real because a human can make that observation in the moment. If you take the perspective of a blank awareness that doesn't know anything, is it still real? Or an animal, does it know what time is 12:00 in the afternoon? If it only exists to the human mind, is it not then a construction of imagination?

I've got one friend who's quite smart, yet he's overly rational and takes a stance based in objectivity relative to the foundation of reality. I'll argue with him for giggles sometimes, and eventually there is some kind of statement or hypothetical put forward by him to "prove" or solidify his perspective on reality. I'll reply with something like "two people can experience reality in two entirely different ways and still retain equal validity" he'll ask me a question that affirms his perspective, and I say that he's correct because if that's the way he sees his subjective reality, then it's as valid as any other perspective. Due to my friend believing that there's an objective reality external to his mind, that allows him to assume I must be simply wrong, or thick headed for saying that reality is subjective and relative to perspective. So he feels that I'm not understanding what is viewed as concrete in his mind, because in my mind reality is so fluid that relative to his paradigm I'm perceived as talking nonsense.

It's entertaining because I do understand his reality relative to mine, and I don't disagree or oppose his perspective on reality, because it's his subjective reality so whatever it may be it's as valid as my own. The tricky bit is people seldom see reality in this manner, not only is it difficult to conceptualize reality as subjective, but doing so can also undermine entire paradigms if one opens their mind to it, which the ego is not a fan. So it's easier for the mind to defend it's bias' than to truly consider the implications of radical concepts and ideas.

I can count on one hand the amount of people I've met in life that have gone through the toil to so heavily deconstruct their reality, luckily I don't often have to talk about metaphysics with strangers, if I did go out of my way they'd probably say I'm living in a different reality, lol.

Over time I've come to realize just how arduous it is to have anyone become willing to seriously conceptualize reality in this way, I've been told by someone that they're uncomfortable with it because it seems like there's little to no ground to stand on if the mind is entirely responsible for subjective reality. While I get it, I think reality is a lot more interesting when things are as loosely defined as possible, it's freeing to view the experience as the primary driver for reality, because if consciousness is imagining it all, it's totally absurd, and anything goes, so why not change?

Edited September 3 by psychedelaholic
grammar