God paradox?

[Ishanga]

16 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

rape is dualistic evil is dualistic sin is dualistic

dualism is impossible except in tiny mad dreams of being separated from god

you couldn't separate from god no matter how hard you try

impossible to even want to

perfection needs no improvement

you have simply forgotten how good things are in heaven

you have been away too long but only in your own eyes

in god's timeless eyes you could never be away a moment

There's a contraction here in what You say, first You say Dualism is impossible, Dual meaning 2, then You say "You have been away too long in your own eyes" this means there is two, so its contradictory to think and believe this way imo...

There is Duality, it is here and a living reality, just see what happens when one day You are with Your family and things are going great (as they should be, and as I wish for everyone:)), then the next day something terrible can happen, it happens all the time in this dual world, tragedy happens, here in Toronto its a daily occurrence, to deny it is to deny reality!

What is the point of it all? Without Duality, then Experience cannot happen, if Experience cannot happen, then Absolute/God/Shiva cannot experience itself, if that cannot happen then Potential does not exist, and Potential is what God/Absolute/Shiva is in Reality!

Edited August 26 by Ishanga

[gettoefl]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

There's a contraction here in what You say, first You say Dualism is impossible, Dual meaning 2, then You say "You have been away too long in your own eyes" this means there is two, so its contradictory to think and believe this way imo...

There is Duality, it is here and a living reality, just see what happens when one day You are with Your family and things are going great (as they should be, and as I wish for everyone:)), then the next day something terrible can happen, it happens all the time in this dual world, tragedy happens, here in Toronto its a daily occurrence, to deny it is to deny reality!

What is the point of it all? Without Duality, then Experience cannot happen, if Experience cannot happen, then Absolute/God/Shiva cannot experience itself, if that cannot happen then Potential does not exist, and Potential is what God/Absolute/Shiva is in Reality!

in your own eyes is how you see things, you think duality exists, god says otherwise

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

in your own eyes is how you see things, you think duality exists, god says otherwise

what god?

so your a believer then?

I just pointed out the contradiction in your post, that is all really and shared my pov on duality..

Edited August 26 by Ishanga

[ICURBlessings]

11 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

rape is dualistic evil is dualistic sin is dualistic

dualism is impossible except in tiny mad dreams of being separated from god

you couldn't separate from god no matter how hard you try

impossible to even want to

perfection needs no improvement

you have simply forgotten how good things are in heaven

you have been away too long but only in your own eyes

in god's timeless eyes you could never be away a moment

gettoefl - I don't think I ever responded to your posts - because I don't have to add anything to them.

I just want to say thank you for your posts. Your wording is in a different ballpark than most users of this forum (like me on that point ). However I believe I do understand your gist. I can see you are not raising the fundamental postulate that "Evil Exist therefore It is Created by God" - I appreciate that you know how to make a distinction where many here throwing everything in the same pot as if everything was on the same order of reality. It is in my opinion such an obtuse solution to the problem of evil.

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

what god?

so your a believer then?

god is what is, what is is everything, you can't be apart from it, despite what the mirror says to you every morning

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, ICURBlessings said:

gettoefl - I don't think I ever responded to your posts - because I don't have to add anything to them.

I just want to say thank you for your posts. Your wording is in a different ballpark than most users of this forum (like me on that point ). However I believe I do understand your gist. I can see you are not raising the fundamental postulate that "Evil Exist therefore It is Created by God" - I appreciate that you know how to make a distinction where many here throwing everything in the same pot as if everything was on the same order of reality. It is in my opinion such an obtuse solution to the problem of evil.

bless you ICUR ... i think we are on the same wavelength ... i always notice you and i thank you for all your posts too, you go deep and hard and give me food for thought

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

god is what is, what is is everything, you can't be apart from it, despite what the mirror says to you every morning

everything is potential, some of it is manifested, as it is here on this Earth as an example, but most of it is out there somewhere in the Universe, but manifestation is just a tiny portion of it, the un-manifested makes up the majority of it, Akasha they say, the atom is 99% empty right!

This Potential is pure Intelligence, not the calculating kind, a different kind but it is ever present in all things manifested and un-manifested, if that is God then I agree:)

Edited August 26 by Ishanga

[gettoefl]

Just now, Ishanga said:

everything is potential, some of it is manifested, as it is here on this Earth as an example, but most of it is out there somewhere in the Universe, but manifestation is just a tiny portion of it, the un-manifested makes up the majority of it, Akasha they say, the atom is 99% empty right!

This Potential is pure Intelligence, not the calculating kind, and different kind but it is ever present in all things manifested and un-manifested, if that is God then I agree:)

manifest and unmanifest are duality, god is absolute ... it knows nothing of duality, duality would contaminate its perfection ... loving and creating unchangingly and infinitely is the realm of god ... conflict with god is an impossibility ... god's will is inviolate and we are god's will but instead we are wanting instead of willing ... but it's okay we are having a fun dream of manifest and unmanifest

[Breakingthewall]

36 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

rape is dualistic evil is dualistic sin is dualistic

dualism is impossible except in tiny mad dreams of being separated from god

you couldn't separate from god no matter how hard you try

impossible to even want to

perfection needs no improvement

you have simply forgotten how good things are in heaven

you have been away too long but only in your own eyes

in god's timeless eyes you could never be away a moment

 as you said there is no separation, only seems so, but that appearance is like real. It's like I'm fragmented to going deeper into myself. The flow of reality, seems inevitable, not a will just inevitable flow

[Ishanga]

Just now, gettoefl said:

manifest and unmanifest are duality, god is absolute ... it knows nothing of duality, duality would contaminate its perfection ... loving and creating unchangingly and infinitely is the realm of god ... conflict with god is an impossibility ... god's will is inviolate and we are god's will but instead we are wanting instead of willing ... but it's okay we are having a fun dream of manifest and unmanifest

Absolute/God/Shiva has no Will per say, there is a Cosmic will, a Will that has set up a playing field of sorts, for Us as Life Forms to play in, for Duality and Karma to work itself out, for the game of Life to happen, non determined, and for us to find out what we truly are, Life/Absolute itself but in manifested forms, with Karma and Duality to deal with, this allows Absolute to know itself, otherwise it won't know itself as it can't since it can't experience itself without Us and Dualistic realms like this one we are in, its a game to allow it to Experience itself, there is no Experience in Absolute, only here and maybe other places where life like Us or superior forms exist... Its a game of Possibility, we have to exist since Possibility exist!

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 as you said there is no separation, only seems so, but that appearance is like real. It's like I'm fragmented to going deeper into myself. The flow of reality, seems inevitable, not a will just inevitable flow

yes, the basic desire or flow is to be completely free and unbounded, or formless, non physical in nature, this is Mukti or liberation from birth/death cycle, to merge with Oneness or Absolute which is the ultimate in formlessness!

Edited August 26 by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

this is Mukti or liberation from birth/death cycle,

Maybe that liberation happens and then again you are separated, without end. If something is happening now, seems impossible that it doesn't going to happen again and again. Could something have an end?

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe that liberation happens and then again you are separated, without end. If something is happening now, seems impossible that it doesn't going to happen again and again. Could something have an end?

Body and Mind can end, the cycle of reincarnation can end, the karmic cycle can end, what You really are cannot end because it always was, this dual body/mind complex game we play here on earth will end!

[gettoefl]

4 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Absolute/God/Shiva has no Will per say, there is a Cosmic will, a Will that has set up a playing field of sorts, for Us as Life Forms to play in, for Duality and Karma to work itself out, for the game of Life to happen, non determined, and for us to find out what we truly are, Life/Absolute itself but in manifested forms, with Karma and Duality to deal with, this allows Absolute to know itself, otherwise it won't know itself as it can't since it can't experience itself without Us and Dualistic realms like this one we are in, its a game to allow it to Experience itself, there is no Experience in Absolute, only here and maybe other places where life like Us or superior forms exist... Its a game of Possibility, we have to exist since Possibility exist!

god wills freedom and happiness and eternal union and loving extension of itself and its created children

misery and pain and attack are non-existential

god hasn't a clue his kids are here dreaming these crazy hallucinations but we all have the memory of god inside us since we are his offspring... this memory can gets us safely back to heaven once we start following it

[gettoefl]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 as you said there is no separation, only seems so, but that appearance is like real. It's like I'm fragmented to going deeper into myself. The flow of reality, seems inevitable, not a will just inevitable flow

yes ego does a great job at keeping one enslaved but ego has to fail since it is finite and so all dreams begin and all dreams end

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Body and Mind can end, the cycle of reincarnation can end, the karmic cycle can end, what You really are cannot end because it always was, this dual body/mind complex game we play here on earth will end!

But then another game will start. If not, if would already finished. If not what?

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, gettoefl said:

god wills freedom and happiness and eternal union and loving extension of itself and its created children

misery and pain and attack are non-existential

god hasn't a clue his kids are here dreaming these crazy hallucinations but we all have the memory of god inside us since we are his offspring... this memory can gets us safely back to heaven once we start following it

if crazy illusions by gods kids are possible that means individuality and identification is possible, which means in some ways we are separate from one another and god, its a game set up this way for us to find out and experience our true potential.. We are actually born with the union in place, but somehow via our society and conditioning/karma we lose that experience of union, and have to get it back to fulfill our ultimate purpose here!

[gettoefl]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe that liberation happens and then again you are separated, without end. If something is happening now, seems impossible that it doesn't going to happen again and again. Could something have an end?

because separation is a false idea it must be finite

nothing false can be infinite

if it were infinite it would be god-like

[Ishanga]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

But then another game will start. If not, if would already finished. If not what?

Yes, other games may have to be played, lets finish this one first eh and then see what happens next:)

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, Ishanga said:

if crazy illusions by gods kids are possible that means individuality and identification is possible, which means in some ways we are separate from one another and god, its a game set up this way for us to find out and experience our true potential.. We are actually born with the union in place, but somehow via our society and conditioning/karma we lose that experience of union, and have to get it back to fulfill our ultimate purpose here!

god gives everyone free will but you are not free to escape reality (which nobody would want anyway) only to escape into fantasy

enjoy the dream state for all it is