I don't believe in radical solipsism

[LordFall]

Per Leo's latest blog post on Ekajivavada and total solipsism basically saying that nothing exists outside of my experience? 

That makes no sense, no human could claim that. I have never invented a laptop yet I'm using one. Who came up with it? A being with a different life experience than me would be a completely different being regardless of how someone our consciousness is one. Non-duality as a whole makes no sense even if we are all one being on some level the different identities of that being are individual single human agents with different realities, life experiences and, effect on the world. 

 

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

Per Leo's latest blog post on Ekajivavada and total solipsism basically saying that nothing exists outside of my experience? 

That makes no sense, no human could claim that. I have never invented a laptop yet I'm using one. Who came up with it? A being with a different life experience than me would be a completely different being regardless of how someone our consciousness is one. Non-duality as a whole makes no sense even if we are all one being on some level the different identities of that being are individual single human agents with different realities, life experiences and, effect on the world. 

 

Agreed! Subjectively all Your Experience Happens only within You, there is no outside Experiences, if You touch someone it is the nerves and senses in Your finger firing up and activating within YOU, so in that sense on the Experience Level there is only You, You have only Experience what is within You, You have never experienced anything outside of You in that sort of context, but there is an outside world, with other living things and ppl and a material existence that is not You, I think ppl that believe in a hard definition of Solipsism are Spiritual Narsissist in reality, they don't understand what there experience is, yes they have an experience of Oneness and Connectedness to everything but this doesn't mean they are the only Being in Existence, makes no sense as You say!

[LordFall]

Yes agreed. You can argue that I only experience things with myself but there are cars driving around me now so like there must be individual humans with a different conscious experience than me currently driving them right? 

@Leo Gura How would you explain this? I do feel like when I'm on psychedelics or even sober sometimes I have nondual experiences where basically the world seem to react/unfold in synchronicity to my thoughts but that's not all the time and that also doesn't explain where TVs come from. I swear I've never built a single TV in my life. 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I swear I've never built a single TV in my life. 

You are dreaming that TVs need people to make them. And you are dreaming that you need to screw a TV together for one to exist.

Edited August 24 by Leo Gura

[LordFall]

But like how do you even define a dream in this context? Can I choose for a VR tv to appear in my living room tomorrow? What are the rules of this dream? Why can't I choose to manifest myself a million dollar today if it's my dream? Clearly there are plot holes here. Why are people dying in Gaza in this dream? That's not cool let's stop that today and if it's not possible why not? 

[UnbornTao]

Great, don't believe it or anything else for that matter (unless you deem it positive in certain ways), especially systems that are aimed at explicating what the universe and existence are. That would ultimately just interfere with an open personal investigation.

These theories are doomed to be misunderstood. Even intellectually grasping them is not the point. The requirement is realizing what is the case for yourself. And this occurs independent of opinion and conjecture, even beyond the capacity of the mind. 

The main problem is that we do not know what we are—our nature. From this may come the impulse to engage in fun extrapolations that don't actually increase our consciousness. For example, you assume (live as) to be your self. Is that true? That's a good place to start.

Edited August 25 by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Can I choose for a VR tv to appear in my living room tomorrow? What are the rules of this dream?

The rules are outside your control. You are a puppet.

[seriousman24]

To my own mental delight and horror everything is absolutely both true and false, limits/destruction are what create "special" or specific infinity, we exist in the ocean between total infinity and nothingness and know everything(the moment) and nothing(the future and the past), almost sounded cool there.

Integrating destruction into love, acknowledging absolute horror and accepting all hate as itself, the most supremely difficult and weirdest of tasks, but respecting the timing of each moment as bad is good and good is bad, becoming bigger to include more but also to be able to destroy more and becoming smaller to accept the creativity of the weirdest(the other and other things), to escape harm and to give space for others to be big.

Wasting each other's time or immortalizing them, destroying each other's sadness and misery and uplifting them, being biased and creating problems, joining and betraying, playfully and sometimes never able to take it back.

Hating each others quirks in the name of love and playfulness. Letting everyone hate the way they are, giving them the infinite space and time we(them) deserve without losing sight of absolute love.

Optimistic, meaningful butchering of each other for basic sustainment and supreme bliss, edging on the voluntary on part of the victims but accepting it's part of defeat to be consumed as it is a game but never lowering the intensity of the desire for revenge against our captors and defilers.

Working towards changing the fundamental rules of reality and succeeding but forgetting them the very next moment as if it never meant anything as your own rage was nothing else but the primordial suffering that will never be accepted, going completely beyond all for the real impossible and the true ultimate, turning the fake into real, having your cake and eating it too, being down to earth and sensible as supremely real as any cosmic joke and doing it all again even though time might no longer exist for that moment.

Sorry hahahahahaha. I'm high from the Caffè latte.

[CosmicExplorer]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

but there are cars driving around me now so like there must be individual humans with a different conscious experience than me currently driving them right? 

If people are driving cars in a dream, does that mean there must be individual humans with different conscious experiences, or you're just dreaming them up/imagining them?

 

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

How would you explain this? I do feel like when I'm on psychedelics or even sober sometimes I have nondual experiences where basically the world seem to react/unfold in synchronicity to my thoughts but that's not all the time and that also doesn't explain where TVs come from. I swear I've never built a single TV in my life. 

You haven't gotten deep enough on psychedelics

[deamordeamar]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The rules are outside your control. You are a puppet.

For me, this is comforting. 

My biggest fear is ending up in a position where I have too much power/control over this dream—too much responsibility. I'm thinking to myself: if this is true, and I am God, maybe I could imagine whatever I want. But what if I imagine something that could physically destroy or damage me? 

[ryandesreu]

 "Radical solipsism is the idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. It suggests that everything outside of one's own thoughts—like other people and the physical world—might not be real or might just be creations of the mind. Supporters argue that since we can only directly know our own thoughts, we can't be sure about anything else. However, critics say this view is impractical for daily life and goes against common sense and scientific evidence. While it offers an interesting way to think about reality and knowledge, it also raises many questions and challenges."

It doesn't go against common sense, and science has its limits. The questions and challenges that solipsism brings are welcome. Fascinating topic!

[Ishanga]

To say that one is just "Dreaming", I'm sorry to say, is the lamest of all answers, what is a Dream and Who is Dreaming, just me lol?

To Say that within this Dream, there are dream individuals, does that mean they have no consciousness? This is based on the lameness of what I say above, first You have to buy into this Dream thing then say the individuals in the dream are just dreams themselves and have no consciousness, its absolutely Nuts!!!

[ryandesreu]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

To Say that within this Dream, there are dream individuals, does that mean they have no consciousness?

Solipsism suggests that individuals might not be real or might just be creations of the mind. This is the case.

Could the idea that there are people who believe that there are definitely other consciousnesses yet have never directly experienced the consciousnesses be a nutty idea? Yeah.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, ryandesreu said:

Could the idea that there are people who believe that there are definitely other consciousnesses yet have never directly experienced the consciousnesses be a nutty idea? Yeah.

It seems pretty obvious that there are other experiences. If there is a concrete experience, there are infinite concrete experiences.

If, instead of being concrete, the experience were indefinite, there would only be that experience, since another indefinite experience would be exactly equal, indefinite, and therefore the same, but when it is defined, by definition there are infinitely defined experiences, and all of them add up to one indefinite experience

Edited August 25 by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

14 minutes ago, ryandesreu said:

Solipsism suggests that individuals might not be real or might just be creations of the mind. This is the case.

Could the idea that there are people who believe that there are definitely other consciousnesses yet have never directly experienced the consciousnesses be a nutty idea? Yeah.

This makes  no sense at all.. My simple Senses tell me there are other ppl, obviously they have consciousness because they go thru the samethings as me, as everyone does, everyone breaths, sleeps, eats, shits, cries, laughs, loves, hates, etc etc,,,, to say its a dream, or that I do not know that this is really happening is a once again lame argument.. You and anyone replying to this or any message proves there are others with other experiences different from mine within this moment and with different intentions

[OBEler]

@Ishanga What would you say if you in a higher state of consciousness can directly experience how you imagine them? You know how you create them in your dream.

Right now part of your dream is that all your senses tell you this is not a dream. You can keep up this dream that it's not a dream. But it's still a dream in the end.

 

[LordFall]

@OBEler I just don't think we can use that definition of dream. If I tortured you for 30 years then we died and I was like haha it was just a dream bro we're actally the same person! It would be irrelevant even if that were true, you still had to deal with 30 years of pain and suffering because my individual actions. That's what seperates "reality" from what we call dreams; the dreams are supposed to have no consequence. 

@CosmicExplorer That's a good question on dream people because I can't really control their actions so they do act like free agents. I guess they don't interact with me in the way a real life human would with questions, requests, complaints, etc that's what makes real humans be not dream humants?

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, LordFall said:

If I tortured you for 30 years then we died and I was like haha it was just a dream bro we're actally the same person! It would be irrelevant even if that were true, you still had to deal with 30 years of pain and suffering because my individual actions.

That's precisely wrong.

Realizing that it was a dream would completely heal you. That's the whole fucking point of God being Love.

God is Love because when you reach infinite consciousness you realize that absolutely nothing matters because it was all just a dream. And that's what LOVE is! That's HOW God heals itself.

"I was tortured for 30 years" << That IS the dream from which God awakens.

The key is to realize that 30 years of torture has no consequence whatsoever. When you finally realize that, you're free.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Ishanga]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's precisely wrong.

Realizing that it was a dream would completely heal you. That's the whole fucking point of God being Love.

God is Love because when you reach infinite consciousness you realize that absolutely nothing matters because it was all just a dream. And that's what LOVE is! That's HOW God heals itself.

"I was tortured for 30 years" << That IS the dream from which God awakens.

The key is to realize that 30 years of torture has no consequence whatsoever. When you finally realize that, you're free.

The problem with this argument is that Your in the context of "After the Fact", or next day quarter back sorta thinking,.. Okay the 30yrs of Torture is now over, forget about it and move on, but what happens when Your in year 15, then what? 15 more years of torture to endure..,. Its fine to say forget about it, but that is bad advice, don't forget about it, but don't live there either... This is very hard to do, our bodies and brains don't work that way in reality, its meant to remember intensely the torture and pain so you don't get yourself in that place again, but it tortures you still after its is over, that is the real problem and thing to deal with... 

The solution is too become wise from it, grow from it, become more than it, but its very hard to do in this day and age of past identification which is so strong  but it is possible, but you can't say its a Dream and to forget about it after the fact when Your deep in it!

[Ishanga]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

@Ishanga What would you say if you in a higher state of consciousness can directly experience how you imagine them? You know how you create them in your dream.

Right now part of your dream is that all your senses tell you this is not a dream. You can keep up this dream that it's not a dream. But it's still a dream in the end.

 

Too many what if's. Your making up things to support a Belief, very dangerous to do this!

What if this is NOT a Dream, and now You have to Deal with it and the consequences thereafter! Now What???

Edited August 25 by Ishanga