What exactly is no mind?

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

- Leo Tzu

 

[Salvijus]

"The Tao does nothing, and yet nothing is left undone (and it is the source of everything that is done) " 

Edited August 24 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

"The will of the Creator is in everything, and that will is Peace, cosplaying as many different things" 

Edited August 24 by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

Let's see, this is very simple, it is about opening the structure of the mind, it can continue working in the background, but it does not block the perception of what you are. What you are is bottomless infinite existence, and this cannot be thought, only be. If you achieve this opening 10 minutes a day with meditation, it is enough, you don't have to live like this always, although it would be good. It is absolutely simple but very difficult. understanding this is something basic imo, if not you are lost

[Girzo]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a hoax.

Everyone who speaks of no-mind is using mind.

What mind, Leo?

Brains don't exist. Minds don't exist. If I were to cut out a distinction, I would say there's thinking, which is a process which appears from nowhere and disappears nowhere. This nowhere is the Absolute. If someone wants to call it Mind, then okay, but it's absolute, no reason to. It's just God thinking. or Nothing thinking, or Infinity thinking. Any name works as well (that means not so well) for the Absolute.

You can totally leave the concept of "your mind" at the table, never use it again, and still be an effective thinker. I would call it no-mind, it's not anti-mind, it's just that you don't create a concept of a mind. Thoughts still arise, and there's even more consciousness and scepticism about them, as they are no longer "me".

 

Edited August 24 by Girzo

[Davino]

What is realistically sought with all this is called: Mind discontinuity.

I heard this concept first with U. G. Krishnamurthy. It's like breaking the continual chain through mechanism of the mind and it's replaced by conscious mind use.

That is, when you use a computer you turn it on and calculate with it and when not it's switched off. 

So you can think a lot and very deeply for hours, but when thinking is not needed, mind disappears as if it never even existed and you attention flows into all other present sensations.

They say it's mind mastery, you think the mind but mind doesn't think you. Impurities like compulsive thinking, craving and aversion over truth, and all high qualities are to be cultivated within the mind. But throwing the mind is like throwing a leg, no need, learn to walk properly instead of running into walls, that's all.

[Davino]

If I do a hypothetical trace back of this historical error in my mind I think it went something like this.

Some group of masters/students realized that if there was not thought one could enter into altered states of consciousness. Therefore, they decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Breakingthewall]

It really is something very simple, the things that are said here are quite strange, that without a mind you cannot work, etc. obvious. We are not talking about working, but about enlightenment, about opening yourself to your true essential nature.

It seems like people find a thousand sophisticated reasons to avoid this. The substance of what you are is formless and can take any form. Are you following me, or is it too difficult? If there is any form, you perceive the form, then you are veiled to the substance. If you truly want direct perception of what you are, you have to dissolve absolutely any form, none can remain, since any form limits, as is absolutely obvious, because a form is one form, just one between infinite. Form=limit. since without limit, there can be no form. Could it be easier to understand? I don't know....

then the question is absolutely simple, you have to forget all the sophisticated stories of God that make the ego have a horse erection, and dissolve the form, renounce absolutely everything, then you have everything, because the absolute formless is all, total. a thousand books on spirituality to explain something that fits in a paragraph. Just business. 

[ICURBlessings]

7 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, this makes sense. I see where you're going with this and it actually answers my question on the deep level. It's a misunderstanding of the ego mind identity.

Princess Arabia - there is also a reason why the practice of Neo-Advaita - and teachers such as Mooji and Spira - are very popular - and therefore have given a huge momentum to the concept of No-Mind.

It is because the human intellect has been programmed in a way that increases the consciousness's entrapment in Duality - because the huiman intellect is pre-programmed to uphold and serve the ego's thought-sytem. Neo-Advaita practices leads consciousness to distinguish itself from the intellect - it directionalize consciousness towards a state  that is aligned with what they call Non-Duality, but which is the fundamental state of the Mind.

I personally have had a different type of training, were I have learned how to align the intellect with Non-Duality - Where verbalization act as a mean to maintain an alignment with a line of energy (for a lack of a better word) that is a thread rooted in Non-Duality to use a popular terminology - but what I like to call the Absolute.

The Absolute is by definition Non-Duality - BUT we human have experiences that we call "non-duality" but that are just a mere taste of the Absolute while still anchored within Duality. Of course this would need an elaborate explanation.

[Breakingthewall]

And another thing, this is not a mental process, it is an action. It is something that when it happens, it is absolutely obvious, without the slightest doubt. It is not fireworks, nor sacred emotions, it is eternity now. the total emptiness without limit that is. The problem is that you cannot grasp it with your mind, the moment you try you change the angle and the vision becomes blurred, it works like this, since the logical mind is a product of the limitless, the same as God, or any other stuff. the primordial, the basic, the essence, is empty. If you don't like it, bad luck, you'll get hooked on sophisticated stories. Stories are within the limitless, therefore they cannot contain or understand it. There is nothing to understand, it is. Understanding is at a lower level, it is secondary, useful for managing the form, useless and an obstacle to perceiving essential reality. Essential reality is timeless and formless, there is absolutely nothing to understand about this, it is basic, open, total.

[ICURBlessings]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

And another thing, this is not a mental process, it is an action. It is something that when it happens, it is absolutely obvious, without the slightest doubt. It is not fireworks, nor sacred emotions, it is eternity now. the total emptiness without limit that is. The problem is that you cannot grasp it with your mind, the moment you try you change the angle and the vision becomes blurred, it works like this, since the logical mind is a product of the limitless, the same as God, or any other stuff. the primordial, the basic, the essence, is empty. If you don't like it, bad luck, you'll get hooked on sophisticated stories. Stories are within the limitless, therefore they cannot contain or understand it. There is nothing to understand, it is. Understanding is at a lower level, it is secondary, useful for managing the form, useless and an obstacle to perceiving essential reality. Essential reality is timeless and formless, there is absolutely nothing to understand about this, it is basic, open, total.

Well said!

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Girzo said:

What mind, Leo?

The one you used to ask that question.

Edited August 24 by Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

And another thing, this is not a mental process, it is an action. It is something that when it happens, it is absolutely obvious, without the slightest doubt. It is not fireworks, nor sacred emotions, it is eternity now. the total emptiness without limit that is. The problem is that you cannot grasp it with your mind, the moment you try you change the angle and the vision becomes blurred, it works like this, since the logical mind is a product of the limitless, the same as God, or any other stuff. the primordial, the basic, the essence, is empty. If you don't like it, bad luck, you'll get hooked on sophisticated stories. Stories are within the limitless, therefore they cannot contain or understand it. There is nothing to understand, it is. Understanding is at a lower level, it is secondary, useful for managing the form, useless and an obstacle to perceiving essential reality. Essential reality is timeless and formless, there is absolutely nothing to understand about this, it is basic, open, total.

yea ... no mind means no mind be the boss of me

in particular my mind is nothing to do with me!

does that blow your mind or what?

most mortals can't conceive a life or a second without a mind, it is all most know

sit in meditation and directly experience that mind is nothing to do with you

it tries to mind things on your behalf, whoever chose the word mind must have been a sage

stop letting mind mind you, you are not a baby

right?

god has much greater in store for you than a paltry mind

of course use mind when you want to play in the sandpit

but that's just playtime

you are designed for great works if you would be the real you

instead of being asleep at the wheel day in day out

take back the wheel

it's why you chose to visit

Edited August 24 by gettoefl

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall Formlessness is just one facet. Stop intoxicating yourself with it as if it were the end all of Awakening. It's a local maximum, get over it, you are at the top of the mountain, nice! You got 10 more to climb

[Breakingthewall]

51 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Breakingthewall Formlessness is just one facet. Stop intoxicating yourself with it as if it were the end all of Awakening. It's a local maximum, get over it, you are at the top of the mountain, nice! You got 10 more to climb

You can't understand it because you never open yourself to the total. Then you think that the partial is god. The fact that you can't see the truth in what i said show that you prefer the form. Enjoy it. But there is only one enlightenment: be the totality. And the totality, by definition, is formless. 

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can't understand it because you never open yourself to the total. Then you think that the partial is god. The fact that you can't see the truth in what i said show that you prefer the form. Enjoy it. But there is only one enlightenment: be the totality. And the totality, by definition, is formless. 

👍

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall I'm not contradicting you. I'm saying: I've also been up that mountain, nice views!

Keep on exploring, don't make your camp up there, you have no home, Infinity awaits you.

This is an infinite jungle for exploration. Once you get out of the local maximum it seems you are going down, till you discover another new mountain. It takes that leap of faith sure, but once you climbed three "absolutes" you get it, oh there are multiple extremely radical, extremely different Realizations, oh that makes sense, let me humble myself and continue working. I must keep pushing myself beyond my current consciousness limits.

You have accomplished more than most spiritual seekers will ever accomplish in their life, but hey I encourage you to keep walking, don't get complacent with Formlessness. (Btw, this is a common trap, you can read many aged masters talking about this. I'll search you some quotes)

Edited August 24 by Davino

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Davino said:

not contradicting you. I'm saying: I've also been up that mountain, nice views!

Keep on exploring, don't make your camp up there, you have no home, Infinity awaits you.

 there is one absolute, and infinite relative. The point is open yourself to the absolute, then if you want you could explore all the brothels on your continent. They are just as relative as anything else relative. If I have to explore relative things, I prefer to explore nature, human relationships, difficult sports, not imaginary worlds. They can be interesting, the same as Nigerian brothels, there is no difference. The difference is between absolute and relative. To be able to open yourself to the absolute. It's extremely difficult, believe me, you have to let go absolutely everything.

[UnbornTao]

- student: master, pacify my mind

- master: find it first

- student: can't find it

- master: there, I pacified it for you

––

This might be pointing towards the fact that there already is no such thing as mind except as a prevalent historical construct, and we overlook those steps (that it had to be invented and then adopted as a distinction in one's experience).

We often hold the mind to be the activity of conceptualizing and the contents of thought, or the "place" where these take place. We also tend to conflate it with internal dialogue and imaging. But where is it? And what is it?

Edited August 27 by UnbornTao

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

 there is one absolute, and infinite relative.

There is an Infinite Absolute and an Infinite Relative

There is an Infinite Oneness

One becomes many while keeping its Oneness

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The point is open yourself to the absolute, then if you want you could explore all the brothels on your continent. They are just as relative as anything else relative.

I'm not talking about relative or rare states of consciousness. First, the distinction between absolute and relative crushes down very quickly in high states of Consciousness, although we can play by that framework.

I assure you I am unconscious of many facets of Infinity/Absolute, so are you. This is should be clear if we are humble. There are many facets, many realizations, Infinite Awakenings, modes of being, states, points of view, egos, neurobrainchemistry, bodymind, psyches... 

There is no "one" formeless realization or "opening to the absolute" realization that will do it. No, of course not. 

It's an inmenselky faceted diamond.

Let's do a check list, of different Absolute Awakenings I've had an we can maybe show each other our blindspots.

Formlessness

Infinite Consciousness

No Self

I am God, God is Me. Oh hi! Nice to meet mySelf

Godhood

Infinite Self

Solipsism

Infinity

Perfect Perfection

Ecstasy

Love

Spatiousness

Symmetry

Intelligence

Imagination

Reality-Shape-Shifting

Death

Immortality

No Mind, No Memory, (not knowing you're a human, not recognising your body as yours etc.)

Insanity

Infinite Mind

...

This are not just "relative" exploration. This is the fucking bowels, heart and mind of Awakening, any of this one listed will blow your shit away and most of them are separate "mountains"

This means: Different methodology. Ones are accesible only by particular psychedelics, others only by specific kinds of meditations, different yogas, shadow work, philosophy/contemplation and so on. Independent, like literally travelling to another country, with another type of equipment another mindset, everything. Learning from zero, new views, new crocodiles, new traps, new self deceptions, relentlessly working till one gets to the peak AWAKENING.

Then years of humbling and sense making, human development and maturity; trying to keep your shit together while having the most insane metaphysical realizations possible in Reality.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's extremely difficult, believe me

I do know

Get as deep as you want, but I'm not gonna allow you to self deceive yourself with maxing out. Not with me sorry

Hopefully you do the same with me if I ever get that into my Mind

One thing I have always been grateful for is my ability to see who is beyond me, learn from them and realize in my core being the Ultimate Truths. I see realizers like Sri Anandamayi Ma, Leo Gura, Shivapuri baba, Nithyananda, Adidam... I humble myself and keep working because I know deeply I'm full of shit and I have some mind anchors that have gone up those mountains and give me some reference to climb them better, purely pragmatic approach, to become as Conscious as possible without dying for the moment, to become as loving as possible, as truthfull as possible, as intelligent as possible, as mature as possible, as wise as possible, as divine as possible, as fucking Godly as I can in this form and beyond. God becoming Conscious of itself for Infinity

This is why I exist, this is Davino