What exactly is no mind?

[Princess Arabia]

7 hours ago, BlueOak said:

When you said in the other thread it's thought battling thought, I felt like saying, yeah that's all it usually is. Ditto for a busy mind often.

👍

[bambi]

No mind is not no thinking, its a contextual shift of your experience. Essentially is when the context is set to emptiness or nibbana, its a high energy field. When this happens all the content is recontextualised within this field. Dr David Hawkins basically explains all of this phenomenon accurately.

No mind doesnt mean no thinking, it means the energetic context of all the content is emptiness or nothing or nibbana. so all your previous mind activity, is now powerfully recontextualised.

For this to happen there is an emotional purification that precedes it. Thats why most of the self-referential emotionally charged thoughts are reported to stop. This means you now have full control over all the mental functions that are useful: contemplating, reason, logic, planning, envisioning etc etc, but now they dont have a neurotic, contracted, self referential underpinning

This rhetoric of no-mind being equivalent to some comatose state, or incapacity to think is not remotely correct, nor have I heard this anywhere

[Princess Arabia]

16 hours ago, Ishanga said:

There is no "No Mind". Only those lost in their Minds, Identified with their Minds, having a Mind that controls them, want "No Mind",  There is a Mind, we all have it, we just have to gain back control of it, like You control the movement of Your Hand or Leg, or Eye lids, You control the Mind just like that, tell it what too think, what too feel, how to plan and execute, many have lost this or think it is not possible, that is their problem..

I didn't realize one can tell the mind what to feel. I guess being a female and "feelings driven", I just thought it was a natural response that the body does. Then again, there's thought involved and thoughts have patterns, so one can change their thought patterns which then changes how one feels. I think that's how it works. Speaking about sensations, emotions, feelings, etc can get confusing at times since they're so similarly related.

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, bambi said:

, but now they dont have a neurotic, contracted, self referential underpinning

Yeah, this can make quite the difference when there's no monkey mind present.

[Keryo Koffa]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I didn't realize one can tell the mind what to feel

The mind responds in auto-karma until you take conscious control, i.e. Spirituality, takes a while to adjust though

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I didn't realize one can tell the mind what to feel. I guess being a female and "feelings driven", I just thought it was a natural response that the body does. Then again, there's thought involved and thoughts have patterns, so one can change their thought patterns which then changes how one feels. I think that's how it works. Speaking about sensations, emotions, feelings, etc can get confusing at times since they're so similarly related.

Yes, well I guess it is the Brain specifically that we can control, the Mind is complex, the 4 basics of it you saw in Sadhuru's video, Intellect, Identity, Memory and Consciousness are the 4 basic aspects of it, I think there are sub layers and sub layers on top of the sub layers and such... We can use the mind in this way to choose how we live our life here while here...Some are choosing either consciously or unconsciously to maybe control or be in the space of the identity or the memory or intellect aspect of it, Spiritual path is about getting intouch with the Chitta or Consciousness aspect of it, I guess once that happens things change and Free will is now available! 

[gettoefl]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I didn't realize one can tell the mind what to feel. I guess being a female and "feelings driven", I just thought it was a natural response that the body does. Then again, there's thought involved and thoughts have patterns, so one can change their thought patterns which then changes how one feels. I think that's how it works. Speaking about sensations, emotions, feelings, etc can get confusing at times since they're so similarly related.

mind has but two choices, fear or love

fear entrenches it and love extinguishes it

fear is the world wants me dead, love is i made all this up and thus should just enjoy the ride

[Princess Arabia]

@Ishanga

@Keryo Koffa

@gettoefl

Aren't sensations separate from the body/mind complex?. Meaning, a sensation is felt by the body so it cannot be the body and the mind interprets what that sensation feels like. Feelings are sensations; so how can the mind tell the body what sensation to feel when it's job is to interpret the sensation into say, happiness, joy, anger. Idk, seems like i'm confusing what sensations are, and the role they play in connection to the body and mind. 

[gettoefl]

16 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

@Ishanga

@Keryo Koffa

@gettoefl

Aren't sensations separate from the body/mind complex?. Meaning, a sensation is felt by the body so it cannot be the body and the mind interprets what that sensation feels like. Feelings are sensations; so how can the mind tell the body what sensation to feel when it's job is to interpret the sensation into say, happiness, joy, anger. Idk, seems like i'm confusing what sensations are, and the role they play in connection to the body and mind. 

body is a servant not a sampler of surroundings as commonly believed, it does what the mind bids it at each moment

Edited August 25 by gettoefl

[Keryo Koffa]

29 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

1. Aren't sensations separate from the body/mind complex?
2. Sensations are felt by the body so it cannot be the body
3. The mind interprets what that sensation feels like
4. Feelings are sensations; so how can the mind tell the body what sensation to feel?
   When its job is to interpret the sensation into say, happiness, joy, or anger.
5. Seems I'm confusing what sensations are
   And the role they play in connection to the body and mind. 

1. That's an amazing distinction I have not yet heard or really noticed!
2. One can consider the Body the physically interactive aspect
   Though the body is filled with receptors to pick up stimuli
3. That's right, stimuli are just patterns, that the mind interprets into qualia
   And then it creates perception/reality, all that we experience out of it
4. Maybe "it" doesn't, you feel, but why would the body need to?
   Body -> Information -> Interpretation -> Reaction -> Response -> Action
   The body is made to act but does it feel? Hmm... what is the body anyway?
5. Confusion is a step forward, it is Not-Knowing and authentic questioning

[Princess Arabia]

32 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

1. That's an amazing distinction I have not yet heard or really noticed!
2. One can consider the Body the physically interactive aspect
   Though the body is filled with receptors to pick up stimuli
3. That's right, stimuli are just patterns, that the mind interprets into qualia
   And then it creates perception/reality, all that we experience out of it
4. Maybe "it" doesn't, you feel, but why would the body need to?
   Body -> Information -> Interpretation -> Reaction -> Response -> Action
   The body is made to act but does it feel? Hmm... what is the body anyway?
5. Confusion is a step forward, it is Not-Knowing and authentic questioning

That's what I'm saying. When you've been exposed to all these nuances via information and understanding, it starts to get technical and the specifics start to stand out more in the brain and the interpretation becomes a bit more subtle and itemized. E.g sensations VS feelings VS emotions VS brain VS mind VS body VS.... i mean, the list goes on. We have to differential them all and put them into their proper perspectives in order for this type of communication to be thoroughly understood or else, one can catch the discrepancies in one's argument or point. 

Edited August 25 by Princess Arabia

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

That's what I'm saying. When you've been exposed to all these nuances via information and understanding, it starts to get technical and the specifics start to stand out more in the brain and the interpretation becomes a bit more subtle and itemized. E.g sensations VS feelings VS emotions VS brain VS mind VS body VS mind VS i mean the lust goes on. We have to differential them all and put them into their proper perspectives in order for this type of communication to be thoroughly understood or else, one can catch the discrepancies in one's argument or point. 

point is, there's nothing that's not made by mind, the world stage is so you can inspect your mind up close and personal and do something about it, you will see heaven or hell accordingly, most would say this is surely hell but mind thus has them making more of the same and they think there is no choice in that since everyone is just as stuck as they are

Edited August 25 by gettoefl

[Princess Arabia]

44 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

The body is made to act but does it feel? Hmm... what is the body anyway?

This question right here is very profound and the answer may seem as simple as, "sure, what else is feeling this pain". But is it really. Maybe it's the mind that digs up information stored in memory as to what that circumstance should feel like and projects what it's feeling unto the body. I'm not sure but it's definitely one to ponder. Some people cannot even feel at all. There's a condition for that.

Edited August 25 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

point is, there's nothing that's not made by mind, the world stage is so you can inspect your mind up close and personal and do something about it, you will see heaven or hell accordingly, most would say this is surely hell but mind thus has them making more of the same and they think there is no choice in that since everyone is just as stuck as they are

Yes, I understand this, but the original inquiry was about the mind telling the body how to feel and is that the case. That's what I'm exploring.

[gettoefl]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This question right here is very profound and the answer may seem as simple as, "sure, what else is feeling this pain". But is it really. Maybe it's the mind that digs up information stored as to what that circumstance should feel like and projects what it's feeling unti the body. I'm not sure but it's definitely one to ponder.

pleasure and pain are the same, mind chooses depending on its fancy, thats how  we have the sadists and masochists out there

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, bambi said:

This rhetoric of no-mind being equivalent to some comatose state, or incapacity to think is not remotely correct, nor have I heard this anywhere

No mind refers to being without mind for a while, in a meditative state of total openness, where all the so-called karmic layers of fear, attachment, desire, need for understanding, stop and disappear. for a while, and in that time your being expands in the absolute limitless void and is recognized as what it is. Then you can think again, go to the supermarket, etc.

Edited August 25 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

Let's see, you, as an individual, on a materialistic level, are creating your entire reality with your brain. Billions of neuronal interconnections create an energetic network that translates as reality, and this reality has genetic foundations based on evolution, in the fight for survival that comes from bacteria.

No mind means stopping this reality, turning off this reality and letting absolute emptiness be, where there is no individual, neither exterior nor interior, nor anything. There is no creation of forms by the mind, therefore there are no limits. The difficulty in doing this is genetic and karmic, your survival instinct screams at you: don't stop creating the world, if you stop you will die. you have to educate yourself little by little. Some of us are lazy and use psychedelic to help, but the point is always meditation. 

[Keryo Koffa]

I remembered Sadhguru's descriptions of Various aspects of Mind/Body and ran through this video's end
This may not answer anything directly, but it does paint a more complete picture to draw from.

Let me draw on Sadhguru's Distinctions:

The next aspect of the mind is the eight dimensions of memory we refer to as:
elemental memory, evolutionary memory, genetic memory, karmic memory
conscious and unconscious levels of memory,

There is a front end of the mind which is the intellect, which we call buddhi.
And a second stage we call ahankara, which is essentially identity.
The third portion is called manas, which is a silo of memory.

The fourth and most important portion of the mind is called Chitta.
Chitta means it is an intelligence, which is unsullied by memory.
There is no memory, but it's intelligence. It can't do anything by itself.
It only functions with memory, according to its intent and direction.
It is the basis of everything.

The word consciousness is not about this, we are misunderstanding mental awareness as consciousness.
With Chitta, let's look at it from the other side - Prana, Pragna, and Chitta.
Pragna is your awareness. Right now you're in Pragna, you're aware, you're not asleep. Prana is the heart beating,
There is an intelligence. that turns a piece of bread into this complex human body, it's not the Buddhi.
Intellect functions from the limited data that we feed it, but you cannot figure out Chitta.

And other's also had unique insights in the last minutes:

Toorya Tata allows local and non-local awareness simultaneously.
Bhagavad Chetna, lets you see a person locally and in their non-local being.
Bramhichetna, where there is nothing other than consciousness as the source.

If I'm in that state, do I know that I was there?
In that state is a gap, you exist as pure consciousness, that's all.
Ultimately memory and karma and imagination are all the same thing.
Consciousness modifying itself into an experience, cognitive or perceptual.
What we call mind, body, and universe are perceptual and cognitive activities in consciousness,

Edited August 25 by Keryo Koffa

[Princess Arabia]

42 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

pleasure and pain are the same, mind chooses depending on its fancy, thats how  we have the sadists and masochists out there

Yeah, so that's my point. The mind makes the distinction as to what is sadist and masochist. How can it tell the body how to feel when the body has no clue what these things are in order to represent that feeling. My thing is the body doesn't feel, it's the mind that's projecting it's thoughts and because we have so strongly identified with the body/mind we believe we tend to feel those thoughts as our being when in actuality it's just mind. This is probably why some yogis are capable of transcending pain using the mind.

Edited August 25 by Princess Arabia

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's see, you, as an individual, on a materialistic level, are creating your entire reality with your brain. Billions of neuronal interconnections create an energetic network that translates as reality, and this reality has genetic foundations based on evolution, in the fight for survival that comes from bacteria.

No mind means stopping this reality, turning off this reality and letting absolute emptiness be, where there is no individual, neither exterior nor interior, nor anything. There is no creation of forms by the mind, therefore there are no limits. The difficulty in doing this is genetic and karmic, your survival instinct screams at you: don't stop creating the world, if you stop you will die. you have to educate yourself little by little. Some of us are lazy and use psychedelic to help, but the point is always meditation. 

now you're getting it