What exactly is no mind?

[Princess Arabia]

How does one function with no mind. If I want to go get a glass of water, first I have that thought. Then I act on it. If I want to set my alarm, first the thought appears in the mind then the body moves into action. Doesn't actions follow thought (mind)? Writing this required thought and processes of the mind. To write a book, to make a speech, to interact with people, to think about what to do next. All requires mind and thought.

Make me understand no mind, please.

[Leo Gura]

It's a hoax.

Everyone who speaks of no-mind is using mind.

You can have short periods of no-mind, but you can't live from that place.

Edited August 23 by Leo Gura

[Shodburrito]

Stop following these gurus. The "No-mind" concept is bs. It doesn't imrpove your life and is only practical through meditation. 

What they are basically trying to achieve is a point of cessation where thoughts and even experiences "stop". Imagine if you were a baby looking out at the world and having no idea what everything is, you would just be in a state of wonder (or fear). You would not have ideas about what things are, their functions, their purposes, whether they are good or bad, etc. These gurus take this idea and have convinced people that it solves the problem of suffering. It doesn't, it's a bandaid fix.

Their logic is this: Desires cause suffering through attachment. If thoughts are necessary for desires, then no thought/no mind = no suffering. Dumbest thing I've ever heard. You can't function in life without no thoughts. If you want to experience it in meditation, then fine, go ahead. But it's not going to majorly improve your emotions on a day-to-day basis.

It's better to focus on transcending the belief that outcomes determine your emotions. This is what is holding you back. You fundamentally believe that reality has to be a certain way for you to avoid mental suffering. This is an illusion, and one I encourage you to question until you realize its illusory nature.

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a hoax.

Everyone who speaks of no-mind is using mind.

You can have short periods of no-mind, but you can't live from that place.

That's what I thought. Even that required mind.

[Princess Arabia]

16 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

Stop following these gurus.

 

16 minutes ago, Shodburrito said:

It's better to focus on transcending the belief that outcomes determine your emotions. This is what is holding you back. You fundamentally believe that reality has to be a certain way for you to avoid mental suffering. This is an illusion, and one I encourage you to question until you realize its illusory nature.

You have made a lot of assumptions here. Maybe what's not good about the mind is the stories it concocts and it's interpretations about what was said or asked; which, to me, serves a good purpose in trying to relay a point's accuracy from which the question came.

I was just inquiring; doesn't mean I was following any guru or I needed advice on my beliefs or required encouragement on the matter. You tried to read into why I asked the question. 

Edited August 24 by Princess Arabia

[Raze]

 

[Breakingthewall]

No mind does not mean that we go down the street doing shit and peeing in our pants, obviously, let's not be...... It means that reality is beyond the structured mind. It's absolutely obvious. It's very difficult, if you want to be what you are, without any hindrance, you have to drop the mind, renounce to understanding, open your being totally, remove the structure, cross the last frontier, open your being to the absolute emptiness that is, and if you want to keep your mind there, then you are not open

Edited August 24 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

No mind does not mean that we go down the street doing shit and peeing in our pants, obviously, let's not be, let's say, obtuse. It means that reality is beyond the structured mind. It's absolutely obvious. It's very difficult, if you want to be what you are, without any hindrance, you have to drop the mind, renounce to understanding, open your being totally, remove the structure, cross the last frontier, open your being to the absolute emptiness that is, and if you want to keep your mind there, then you are not open, it can't be more obvious. 

The problem I see with this is, one is using the mind to try to accomplish this. Let's say you've accomplished this, what instrument will use to tell itself it has been accomplished. Isn't that the mind....

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

The problem I see with this is, one is using the mind to try to accomplish this. Let's say you've accomplished this, what instrument will use to tell itself it has been accomplished. Isn't that the mind....

The mind is inside of the totality and it's the door that closes. Yes, Im using the mind because I'm closed. If I want to open myself, I have to drop the mind. I could tell myself 1000 times that I have been accomplished that as you said that it is absolutely nothing, it's being in the land of the mind, what I could do, or try, is to drop the mind again and open myself totally, but I can't, because my mind is in the middle fucking off as always, except in some moments after a whole day meditating, bombing myself with psychedelics, and doing a real effort to totally let go everything, then, for a moment, the reality opens, and I'm free, but again, as I'm full of shit, it closes up 

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, Im using the mind because I'm closed. If I want to open myself, I have to drop the mind.

If there's even such a thing, I think it happens on it's own where the mind just falls away. (I) (have to drop) (the mind), is something trying to do something to achieve something. If there's a totality (which you agree there is), how is that even possible. Something outside of something else has to be performing this act and it's all happening inside this totality which is not separated.

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

If there's even such a thing, I think it happens on it's own where the mind just falls away. (I) (have to drop) (the mind), is something trying to do something to achieve something. If there's a totality (which you agree there is), how is that even possible. Something outside of something else has to be performing this act and it's all happening inside this totality which is not separated.

It is what they call the door without a door because the door is you, who is precisely the one trying to open the door, so it is something extremely difficult. It requires total honesty, total openness, and total renunciation. All of this is very difficult because we, more or less normal people, are full of shit, and by shit I mean attachment to the mind, desire, fear and self-deception. So we have to do things like vaping 5meo 3 times in a row after taking LSD and THC, to make the mind a kind of crumbling mash, and even then it takes a real intention to let go of the mind, and stop it. mind must have understood what the obstacle is and accept to disintegrate. It doesn't mean that the mind is something different than the totality, it means that the mind is an structure that is happening that make you being be into a mirage, that reflect itself and make you perceive yourself limited. Any structure is limited, god is limited, creation is limited, or anything. Only the absolute void is unlimited. The total reality is absolute void, void doesn't mean that there in nothing, means void of any structure. Zero structure. Any minimal structure, and you are deceived.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

 

The thing is, for someone (in the second video) that says the "I" fell away, surely says the words "I" and "me" a lot. I get all that he's saying in that video but the "I" isn't really there for any one already, so there's nothing special about his being than anyone else's. It's just what's happening in his experiences is the energy is operating from a different mechanism. He didn't do it, it didn't happen to him personally. It's just another expression of the Absolute appearing as someone that appears to have the "I" energy fall away. It's still just an appearance that I wouldn't attribute to him personally. It could have been anyone else, it just happens to be that character the Absolute is playing.

Edited August 24 by Princess Arabia

[Hojo]

@Princess Arabia You are just pretending you need to think to do it because you want to be alive. The body moves by itself you already programmed it how to get water. You can say yes or no that's it. Your imagination says shower you say yes thats all you need stop thinking after that. Anything you do after that is just programming you dont trust yourself enough to let go so you pretend like you are doing it. Everytime you interact with a thought another will come so you keep interacting with the thoughts of the body you end up thinking for a long time pretending like you are doing it but you are just saying yes or no to the thoughts. Stop saying yes or no to thought they go. Talking is saying yes twice to a thought.

Edited August 24 by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

Learning how to think deeply and well, is crucial.

This strand of Neo-Advaita which marginalizes thinking is a trap. The world is way too complex to get by without deep, serious thinking. Yeah, if all you do in life is just teach others about Neo-Advaita them maybe you don't need to think much. But if you are seriously engaged in human affairs like business or politics or art or science, you better learn to think well.

The reason some guru can get away with this no-mind stuff is because he isn't doing any serious work. It's a very self-absorbed sort of approach, ironically, because that kind of life cannot sustain the civilization which your life depends on.

Edited August 24 by Leo Gura

[ICURBlessings]

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

How does one function with no mind. If I want to go get a glass of water, first I have that thought. Then I act on it. If I want to set my alarm, first the thought appears in the mind then the body moves into action. Doesn't actions follow thought (mind)? Writing this required thought and processes of the mind. To write a book, to make a speech, to interact with people, to think about what to do next. All requires mind and thought.

Make me understand no mind, please.

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's a hoax.

Everyone who speaks of no-mind is using mind.

You can have short periods of no-mind, but you can't live from that place.

Princess Arabia - your question touches right on an issue that I have been observing for a few decades.

Believe it or not  - it is a use of terminology that is at the very least confusing - which ends up being truly misleading.

 

To explain this, first I need to describe to you what the Mind really is, and I trust you will recognize what I am talking about. 

At the very least the Mind is the field of every human experiences that ever existed. The experience of the body, the experience of the World, all knowledge ever acquired, every drop of perception that ever existed, etc... and this is the same for every non-human living being. Your experience of being a human occurs in the field of the Mind. A cat experience of being a cat, also occurs in the field of the Mind.

As well to this we could also add all experiences of the soul - all experiences of the afterlife and of the before-life ... 

The Mind is experienced on a personal level but it is a collective field - and ultimately a Universal field of Consciousness ...

Everything you have learned and known in this life is in your Mind, and also you carry beliefs, values, that are important to you, they are programmed in your Mind. Your heart beats without your conscious effort, the knowledge and intelligence that makes your heart beat is in your Mind. When someone has an allergic reaction, it is a response in accord with a program that is held in the Mind.

When a child who is far from his mother, in another country, and goes through a very stressful event, and the mother has a dream and suddenly knows her son is in trouble, that seeming long distance communication occurs in the Mind.

The Mind is massive, colossal, infinite!

Now as a human, we have developed what we know as a language. here we are communicating in English. Anyone who is fluent in two or more languages (I am) knows that you can communicate the same thought in two completely  different forms. The thought before being formed in a specific language exist in the Mind in a form that most people are not aware of. I am aware of certain thoughts before they are put into words - but most people become aware of their thoughts only after they are dressed into words. Words that completely differ from one language to another.

The part of the Mind that works with words and the concepts that are related to them, is the "intellect". The intellect verbalize. When you think of the massiveness of the Mind - what is the intellect correspond to just a tiny, tiny fragment of the Mind. I think we can agree on that.

For some reasons - I believe it comes from the Eastern part of the world - at one point some spiritual teachers started to call what consist of being the "intellect" - the "mind". And when the intellect would stop verbalizing, they called that the "No Mind".

This has led many to believe that they actually leave the Mind - that they go out of the mind into the "No-Mind". And they seem to have no clue that when their intellect is quiet - their Mind with all its intelligence, Its Knowledge, knowing how to drive a car, knowing how to beat a heart is still there with them. They never left their Mind. It is impossible or like Leo said it is a hoax!

I have been observing this phenomenon, and I have friends that thinks this way... and they seem to really believe that you can escape the Mind. They don't understand that the peace they feel when their intellect stops verbalizing is actually the Natural State of the Mind!

 

 

[Lyubov]

It’s just a practice to make one aware of how mind build reality and being in these states can help you choose beliefs that serve you better. 
 

Your mind evolved over the course of millions of years. It’s a blessing, a tool and a gift and it’s meant to be lived with in harmony of the other aspects of life. It’s not meant to be removed.

[Salvijus]

It means "take no thought for tomorrow", be present and let the Great Spirit guide you in all things. 

True impulse comes from god and not from the ego. It comes in the form of energy as love and then manifests as visions, ideas, thoughts etc. 

Thought is not fundamental to action. Desire is. And what god inspires, he will fuel it with the fire of love to bring that manifestation into existence needing for you to do nothing but allow it. 

Edited August 24 by Salvijus

[Princess Arabia]

48 minutes ago, ICURBlessings said:

 

Princess Arabia - your question touches right on an issue that I have been observing for a few decades.

Believe it or not  - it is a use of terminology that is at the very least confusing - which ends up being truly misleading.

 

To explain this, first I need to describe to you what the Mind really is, and I trust you will recognize what I am talking about. 

At the very least the Mind is the field of every human experiences that ever existed. The experience of the body, the experience of the World, all knowledge ever acquired, every drop of perception that ever existed, etc... and this is the same for every non-human living being. Your experience of being a human occurs in the field of the Mind. A cat experience of being a cat, also occurs in the field of the Mind.

As well to this we could also add all experiences of the soul - all experiences of the afterlife and of the before-life ... 

The Mind is experienced on a personal level but it is a collective field - and ultimately a Universal field of Consciousness ...

Everything you have learned and known in this life is in your Mind, and also you carry beliefs, values, that are important to you, they are programmed in your Mind. Your heart beats without your conscious effort, the knowledge and intelligence that makes your heart beat is in your Mind. When someone has an allergic reaction, it is a response in accord with a program that is held in the Mind.

When a child who is far from his mother, in another country, and goes through a very stressful event, and the mother has a dream and suddenly knows her son is in trouble, that seeming long distance communication occurs in the Mind.

The Mind is massive, colossal, infinite!

Now as a human, we have developed what we know as a language. here we are communicating in English. Anyone who is fluent in two or more languages (I am) knows that you can communicate the same thought in two completely  different forms. The thought before being formed in a specific language exist in the Mind in a form that most people are not aware of. I am aware of certain thoughts before they are put into words - but most people become aware of their thoughts only after they are dressed into words. Words that completely differ from one language to another.

The part of the Mind that works with words and the concepts that are related to them, is the "intellect". The intellect verbalize. When you think of the massiveness of the Mind - what is the intellect correspond to just a tiny, tiny fragment of the Mind. I think we can agree on that.

For some reasons - I believe it comes from the Eastern part of the world - at one point some spiritual teachers started to call what consist of being the "intellect" - the "mind". And when the intellect would stop verbalizing, they called that the "No Mind".

This has led many to believe that they actually leave the Mind - that they go out of the mind into the "No-Mind". And they seem to have no clue that when their intellect is quiet - their Mind with all its intelligence, Its Knowledge, knowing how to drive a car, knowing how to beat a heart is still there with them. They never left their Mind. It is impossible or like Leo said it is a hoax!

I have been observing this phenomenon, and I have friends that thinks this way... and they seem to really believe that you can escape the Mind. They don't understand that the peace they feel when their intellect stops verbalizing is actually the Natural State of the Mind!

 

 

Yes, this makes sense. I see where you're going with this and it actually answers my question on the deep level. It's a misunderstanding of the ego mind identity.

[Princess Arabia]

48 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

It’s just a practice to make one aware of how mind build reality and being in these states can help you choose beliefs that serve you better. 
 

Your mind evolved over the course of millions of years. It’s a blessing, a tool and a gift and it’s meant to be lived with in harmony of the other aspects of life. It’s not meant to be removed.

ok

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Learning how to think deeply and well, is crucial.

This strand of Neo-Advaita which marginalizes thinking is a trap. The world is way too complex to get by without deep, serious thinking. Yeah, if all you do in life is just teach others about Neo-Advaita them maybe you don't need to think much. But if you are seriously engaged in human affairs like business or politics or art or science, you better learn to think well.

The reason some guru can get away with this no-mind stuff is because he isn't doing any serious work. It's a very self-absorbed sort of approach, ironically, because that kind of life cannot sustain the civilization which your life depends on.

Ok, thanks.