Clarifying The Distinction between Consciousness, Experience, and Awareness

[Carbon]

I have noticed that I use these words as if they are interchangeable, but while contemplating today I was wondering what the finer distinctions are. 

How can you be conscious without being aware?
How can you be conscious without having an experience?

It seems like consciousness is the most fundamental element. Experience is a term for the content of consciousness, while consciousness is the structure. Awareness seems like a further distinction within experience. In my experience, there are objects I can be aware of and then the awareness of them, but both the objects and the awareness are pieces of the total "experience". 

Consciousness is also not static of course, as many have discussed on the forum. Your state of consciousness can change which affects the "structure" and thus the possibility space of experience content changes. 

[Leo Gura]

There is always only one thing: Consciousness. It takes on various states.

[Keryo Koffa]

Consciousness Experiences Awareness

[ICURBlessings]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is always only one thing: Consciousness. It takes on various states.

Tell me, where do you fit the 'Unconscious-mind' as defined in analytical-psychology - in relation to Consciousness?

[rachMiel]

I like how Rupert Spira puts it, paraphrasing: 

Consciousness is the ultimate reality: all-inclusive, inherently existent, irreducible. 

Awareness is consciousness suffused with knowing, it's consciousness knowing itself.

Experience is the content of consciousness and awareness, the perception of all phenomena that arise in the body-mind. 

[ICURBlessings]

28 minutes ago, rachMiel said:

I like how Rupert Spira puts it, paraphrasing: 

Consciousness is the ultimate reality: all-inclusive, inherently existent, irreducible. 

Awareness is consciousness suffused with knowing, it's consciousness knowing itself.

Experience is the content of consciousness and awareness, the perception of all phenomena that arise in the body-mind. 

Yes  - very well said - especially:

Awareness is consciousness suffused with knowing, it's consciousness knowing itself.

[ICURBlessings]

The word Consciousness used as ... the ultimate reality: all-inclusive, inherently existent, irreducible... came as a substitution for the 'Mind', as in the Universal Mind or the Mind of God. If you go back a little further the word was Spirit. 

This newer use of the word Consciousness as the present choice and preference maybe from how it relates to our basic state of awareness. Yet the Collective and individual Mind does not consist of only a region of awareness - but also region of no-awareness that have been previously labeled the Unconscious. That is were I find Consciousness as a term that can easily mislead in its representation... 

[Leo Gura]

On 8/23/2024 at 5:43 AM, ICURBlessings said:

Tell me, where do you fit the 'Unconscious-mind' as defined in analytical-psychology - in relation to Consciousness?

"Unconscious mind" is a kind of imagined construct. You could throw away this construct entirely and live without it and reality will make even more sense than with it.

Analytic psychology is nowhere close to a good explanation of Consciousness.

But at the same time, Consciousness can hide stuff from itself. Consciousness can forget stuff. Right now Consciousness is hiding demons from you. You could live inside a demon world, but you don't because it isn't useful for human survival. So in this sense your consciousness is very limited. If your consciousness was unlimited you would see demons, dragons, goblins, and more!

Edited August 24 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

"Unconscious mind" is a kind of imagined construct. You could throw away this construct entirely and live without it and reality will make even more sense than with it.

 

I don’t understand why that is. At least, as a relative distinction in human experience it appears that “unconscious mind” is useful for describing automatic human functions, unregistered thoughts, etc

But, wouldn’t make as much sense when looking at God and Consciousness as it’s all the same.

Edited August 24 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I don’t understand why that is. At least, as a relative distinction in human experience it appears that “unconscious mind” is useful for describing automatic human functions, unregistered thoughts, etc

Because it's a conceptual construct that will limit your mind's ability to access more advanced ways of understanding consciousness.

It's the same problem as telling yourself that consciousness come from the brain. That "brain" then locks down your mind into a very limited paradigm which you cannot see beyond.

[ICURBlessings]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because it's a conceptual construct that will limit your mind's ability to access more advanced ways of understanding consciousness.

It's the same problem as telling yourself that consciousness come from the brain. That "brain" then locks down your mind into a very limited paradigm which you cannot see beyond.

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

"Unconscious mind" is a kind of imagined construct. You could throw away this construct entirely and live without it and reality will make even more sense than with it.

Analytic psychology is nowhere close to a good explanation of Consciousness.

But at the same time, Consciousness can hide stuff from itself. Consciousness can forget stuff. Right now Consciousness is hiding demons from you. You could live inside a demon world, but you don't because it isn't useful for human survival. So in this sense your consciousness is very limited. If your consciousness was unlimited you would see demons, dragons, goblins, and more!

How about the ''content' of memory WHEN it is in a unremembered state? In analytical psychology the 'Conscious' is different than Consciousness as you refer to it.  In analytical psychology the 'Conscious' is the section of the Mind that is under the spectrum of one's awareness.  When something comes in to one's awareness (the Conscious) it could be said that it has shifted from the Unconscious to the Conscious. A process to which memory is directly related.

Edited August 24 by ICURBlessings

[Davino]

@Leo Gura I think the term unconsciousness is very useful when put into proper context. Maybe you prefer the term unawareness but it's pretty clear one can become much more conscious, so how are we gonna call that gap? Like the moment you become conscious of a figment of reality and Realize; Oh! I've been unconscious about this the whole time but it was always already here. It's so obvious.This kind of stuff.

We are unconscious of many things, that's the truth. We are unconscious of consciousness. So second order consciousness can be self conscious or unconscious.

Don't throw it all away because then the assumption is made: I'm maxed out and as there is no unconscious, I can't become more conscious. We don't want that misconception to happen.

[ICURBlessings]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But at the same time, Consciousness can hide stuff from itself. Consciousness can forget stuff. Right now Consciousness is hiding demons from you. You could live inside a demon world, but you don't because it isn't useful for human survival. So in this sense your consciousness is very limited. If your consciousness was unlimited you would see demons, dragons, goblins, and more!

Can you explain that? - as it sounds like it could be a convenient belief of some kind, like a myth.

[Keryo Koffa]

On 8/23/2024 at 2:43 PM, ICURBlessings said:

Tell me, where do you fit the 'Unconscious-mind' as defined in analytical-psychology - in relation to Consciousness?

it sounds like he says it doesn't exist until spontaneously & instantaneously materialized (akin to Sadhguru's Chitta)

And by "uncovering" the subconscious, we actively create independent visualizations to represent what doesn't exist.

Like there's only the process and independent self-coherent intelligence that isn't made nor wrapped in anything.

Inventing its own explanations for itself, when really it's just intuitively materializing beyond all rationale and hows.

Edited August 24 by Keryo Koffa

[ICURBlessings]

In analytical psychology the Mind is divided between the Conscious, the Pre-Conscious and the Unconscious (Freud's discoveries). Furtherly the Unconscious can be divided between our Individual/Personal Unconscious and the Collective Unconscious (Carl Yung discoveries).

You could metaphorically compare the Unconscious to a computer hard-drive, the Pre-Conscious to the Flash Memory, and the Conscious to the Monitor.

I understand if we bring up the topic to the facts that all of this including computers are not ultimately Real - As Reality can only be Absolute to be Itself. I completely know this. But if someone is going to claim that the Laws of Physics, Airplanes & Cars are Real BUT the Unconscious is not - well there I see a serious inconsistency...

It sounds like someone that is saying Reality is what is on my computer Monitor (metaphorically speaking) But what is in the Flash-Memory and the Hard-Drive is not Real!

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But at the same time, Consciousness can hide stuff from itself. Consciousness can forget stuff. Right now Consciousness is hiding demons from you.

If consciousness is hiding things from you, it is hiding infinite things from you. This means that it is not that consciousness is hiding things from you, but that you are the fact that consciousness is hiding everything except you experience, that is, you are a limited fraction of the infinite, which contains all of the infinite, but hidden, and among the things that are hidden from you is my experience and infinite other experiences. If they were not hidden from you, you would not see demons, you would not see anything, it would be formless, since form is born from the fact that your consciousness is limited.

Edited August 24 by Breakingthewall

[Sandhu]

It's just mixing up relativity with absolute 

[ICURBlessings]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If consciousness is hiding things from you, it is hiding infinite things from you. This means that it is not that consciousness is hiding things from you, but that you are the fact that consciousness is hiding everything except you experience, that is, you are a limited fraction of the infinite, which contains all of the infinite, but hidden, and among the things that are hidden from you is my experience and infinite other experiences. If they were not hidden from you, you would not see demons, you would not see anything, it would be formless, since form is born from the fact that your consciousness is limited.

To me it is NOT Consciousness that is hiding anything from me or you or anyone else. It sounds like an explanation that can only make sense if we twist a few things.

When my mind look and peer towards the unknown - "things" become 'untwisted'. If I have to twist something to make it work ... well I just don't do it; because I find that there is a way to look without these twists. And I would even say that Consciousness loves untwisting things!

I certainly would rather look at this horizon or panorama under the understanding that there is some mechanism that filters the Total Potential of Consciousness. And I think exploring these mechanisms can only be a fruitful undertaking. A Great learning, a fascinating journey, ... 

 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, ICURBlessings said:

To me it is NOT Consciousness that is hiding anything from me or you or anyone else. It sounds like an explanation that can only make sense if we twist a few things.

Yes, I think so, something there is wrong. If you are the conscience, how do you hide things from yourself without being aware of it? I would say that reality is organized in holons of consciousness that overlap, creating more complex ones to infinity. They are all the same consciousness but infinite forms, and what you are is the consciousness of a form, you can leave that form and expand as consciousness to infinity, and that is realizing what you are, but then you return to the form since temporarily that form exists and cannot escape from itself, but it can be aware of its unlimited nature as consciousness and transitory as form.

Then, the problem when you say: you are hiding things, is that you are confusing conciousness with form , because "you" is the form, no the conciousness. 

[ICURBlessings]

I think Consciousness as the most fundamental idea, concept, and thought - and how That which is Consciousness relates to the Universe, to Reality and to our very own and most intimate sense of existence - is ON THE TABLE not only here in this thread and forum - but in the world as we know it.

I think the question leading this thread is SUPER-Appropriate to the situation which is understanding the Nature of Consciousness. To think that it has become on the forefront of scientific inquiry is mind blowing to say the least. 

Just understanding the distinction between 'awareness' and 'consciousness' - scientifically speaking - would lead to some of the tallest leaps in human understanding.

This is not just an intellectual exercise - it is part of a collective process of Self-Realization that pulls into its gears a segment of humanity that is much more than just the seers and mystics...