"Redefining the Spectrum: Has the 'Right' Exceeded the Limits of Democratic Principle

[ICURBlessings]

There was a time when making a decision always came down to a simple Yes or No. The fundamental binary system that runs our computers and which is the most fundamental language of the universe - Yes/No; On/Off; etc... is also the historical onset that gave rise to the binary Political Left & Right.

In those days Left & Right clearly were in the same arena. "Do we go to war with another Nation: Yes or No." Do we legalize abortion: Yes or No" - Simple: " those that say Yes, please stand to the Left. And those that say No, please stand to the Right."

Left & Right use to belong together as part of a decision process. In a democracy, the government role among other things, is to assure that this decision process was executed as efficiently and fairly as possible.

In the US we have an indirect-democracy. Instead of electing a Yes or No over every decisions - we elect a party that represent a group of answers, and/or a type of answers. And we determine were a Party stand in a spectrum from Extreme Left to Extreme Right.

The founders of this country all agreed that the constitution should be designed to eliminate decisions that are from both extremes - and they believed this country could be run from a narrow spectrum between Left and Right. A sort of principle were the center is ideal.

 

The question I am posting here is:  the way the Republican Party as been transformed under the leadership of Trump, including the embodiment of this party of a cult-like ideology - centered on "Trumpism", which clearly involves the rise of fascistic, autocratic, and anti-democratic principles as a way to replace the Democratic Republic that has been maintained via the US Constitution - DO this so called "Right" is truly the binary half of the Democratic Party that is called the "Left"?

Is the situation that we face during this 2024 election - truly between a Left and Right angle - or is it something else?

What I see is not the Left and Right of a Democratic process. I see the so called Left Standing Alone - and therefore in a CENTRAL position. What do you see?

Edited August 22, 2024 by ICURBlessings
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[Whitney Edwards]

It's more about what the public wants. The public has parts both left and right leaning. 

[ICURBlessings]

41 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

It's more about what the public wants. The public has parts both left and right leaning. 

I see your point. But the question here is. Does the 'public' carry on with a previous perspective - not matching with the present situation which has no historical precedent in this country.

[Nivsch]

Both camps has devolved in the last 10-15 years into less healthy versions of left and right among the edges.

Edited August 22, 2024 by Nivsch

[ICURBlessings]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Both camps has devolved in the last 10-15 years into less healthy versions of left and right among the edges.

I am not referring to extremist groups but active politicians - which will have a direct effect from the party that will be elected.

If that is what you mean - give me an example of an active member of congress, or house of representative or the Biden admin. with a less healthy versions of the left - please

[Consept]

18 hours ago, ICURBlessings said:

Is the situation that we face during this 2024 election - truly between a Left and Right angle - or is it something else?

Here's how I see it - traditionally right and left actually could never be too far apart simply because the mass public is not that far apart politically, there will be key differences in the policy that they want but generally they would agree on the concept of democracy, most past wars were literally fought to preserve democracy and defend it from other ideologies taking hold. 

In general left believes in the collective whereas right is more individualistic. Society therefore is like a mix between these two and probably functions relatively well using both polarities. 

If we say 10 being as right as possible and 0 being as left as possible, traditionally dems are like 3 or 4 and cons are 6 or 7, progressives are further left and far right is obviously further right. 

What has been happening in recent times is the shift has been moving more left  dems always win the popular vote, more young people vote for dems etc so people are favouring more the collective. So essentially the conservatives as we knew them were slowly dying. But also the left were becoming complacent. 

Trump came in as the cons didn't really have anyone they believed could win, but his strategy was to engage those that were still hanging on to the right and weren't going to shift. The messaging of make america great again, was actually pretty genius in what would speak to them. 

Also you have to remember how Obama was painted by the right,  although he's probably a 3 on the scale he was being painted as a 1. Which meant that the right felt they needed a candidate that was opposite to a 1 to get their balance back. Trump is probably an 8 but I don't even know how to rate him as he seems almost sepeate from the scale in that his main focus is him, he doesn't actually have policies or some mission he's trying to enact, he just wants power. 

So to answer your question this is not traditional left or right, this is Trumpism v democracy. If you think of Trump vs the Bushes, he is very far away from them in terms of what he wants to do. The dems are still fairly central but the Trump voters are painting them to basically be communists simply because the opposite of communist ideology is facism, so to normalise facism they need to the paint the picture of battli g communists. 

Maga is essentially living in a different reality. But I think dems are playing it well pointing out the weirdness and staying on their message. 

[ICURBlessings]

31 minutes ago, Consept said:

Here's how I see it - traditionally right and left actually could never be too far apart simply because the mass public is not that far apart politically, there will be key differences in the policy that they want but generally they would agree on the concept of democracy, most past wars were literally fought to preserve democracy and defend it from other ideologies taking hold. 

In general left believes in the collective whereas right is more individualistic. Society therefore is like a mix between these two and probably functions relatively well using both polarities. 

If we say 10 being as right as possible and 0 being as left as possible, traditionally dems are like 3 or 4 and cons are 6 or 7, progressives are further left and far right is obviously further right. 

What has been happening in recent times is the shift has been moving more left  dems always win the popular vote, more young people vote for dems etc so people are favouring more the collective. So essentially the conservatives as we knew them were slowly dying. But also the left were becoming complacent. 

Trump came in as the cons didn't really have anyone they believed could win, but his strategy was to engage those that were still hanging on to the right and weren't going to shift. The messaging of make america great again, was actually pretty genius in what would speak to them. 

Also you have to remember how Obama was painted by the right,  although he's probably a 3 on the scale he was being painted as a 1. Which meant that the right felt they needed a candidate that was opposite to a 1 to get their balance back. Trump is probably an 8 but I don't even know how to rate him as he seems almost sepeate from the scale in that his main focus is him, he doesn't actually have policies or some mission he's trying to enact, he just wants power. 

So to answer your question this is not traditional left or right, this is Trumpism v democracy. If you think of Trump vs the Bushes, he is very far away from them in terms of what he wants to do. The dems are still fairly central but the Trump voters are painting them to basically be communists simply because the opposite of communist ideology is facism, so to normalise facism they need to the paint the picture of battli g communists. 

Maga is essentially living in a different reality. But I think dems are playing it well pointing out the weirdness and staying on their message. 

Thanks Consept for your reply.

Everything you said aligns with my perception.

One of the reason I started this thread is to bring to the foreground that what we traditionally consider a Left or Right Bias does not apply to the present situation as it REALLY is.

A criticism in the name of Conscious Politics- chastises this forum for being Left-Biased - and there seem to be a belief that there is room on the table (in the arena) that should be occupied by a Right-perspective. There was a time this might of been a valid approach to Conscious Politics - but if we are to use the REAL cards that are on the table - those that fall under the Right-perspective are all wild-cards - objects of manipulation and deception pretending to be something they are not.

When I look at the Democrat-politicians that are actively working today, when I listen to reports from MSNBC, NY Time, and others which are known for their Left-Bias - I don't see or hear a Left perspective despite its label - BUT a perspective that I would consider mainly 'central' within the global context of industrialized nations.

The so called Right - those that are active - truly stand as a powerful and genuine threat to Democracy - more dangerous than any terrorist organization. Today we have individuals that were dedicated Republican politicians - such as Liz Cheney - that are urging US Voters to vote for the Democrats as the means to vote against Trump. For them, the primary Right issue, more important than any other issue - is to defeat the present and actual party that stands for the Right. I think THIS in itself says ALOT!

[Consept]

37 minutes ago, ICURBlessings said:

The so called Right - those that are active - truly stand as a powerful and genuine threat to Democracy - more dangerous than any terrorist organization. Today we have individuals that were dedicated Republican politicians - such as Liz Cheney - that are urging US Voters to vote for the Democrats as the means to vote against Trump. For them, the primary Right issue, more important than any other issue - is to defeat the present and actual party that stands for the Right. I think THIS in itself says ALOT!

I agree with you, conscious politics is looking at things as authentically as you can. I think there is almost an instinct when approaching politics to looks at things as right v left or us v them. What Trump has done is effectively hijacked the traditional right, so that when people are talking about politics they now think conservative right means Trump which it doesnt. This is further evidenced by a huge amount of conservatives who are traditional and have principles, distancing themselves from him such a Romney, Liz Chaney etc but also those that have actually worked with him like John Bolton, Mike Pence and countless others. What youre left with is either those that have no integrity and see getting on board with Trump as a way in or those that do have an ideological belief and see Trump as someone who can lower the walls enough so they can enact it, this is what we're seeing with Project 25 which is basically a plan for a Christian Theocracy. 

I think the left-bias idea is just a way to dismiss the valid questioning of this new Trumpism. Its really a false equivalency when you hear things like, 'theyre just as bad as each other' or 'two sides of the same coin'. Its actually really strange to normalise an attempted coup of the US and have a president literally recorded trying to get governers of states to change election results.  

What im curious about is if Trump does lose, what will happen to the republican party? I think hes almost sped up their decline. 

[ICURBlessings]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

What im curious about is if Trump does lose, what will happen to the republican party? I think hes almost sped up their decline. 

Yes I've been wondering WHY all these decent republicans that have had enough integrity so to be rejected by the Trump-Republican's party - have not merged together to either split the party or form a new Right Party. I know that politically it would weaken the Right to be split in two - but in those extreme circumstances - it seems that reforming a new Republican party might be successful in the long run.

But they haven't and like you I also been wondering what will happen if Trump looses. I can imagine that those members with an extreme agenda - such as the Project 25 gang - and others , will continue despite the loss. Very likely they will claim the election was fixed and that they actually won. They will not make it easy...

 

...uops I said if Trump looses but I should of said "when Trump looses" 

Edited August 22, 2024 by ICURBlessings