On the edge of unaliving due to the ultimate realisation of being alone forever.

[UnbornTao]

22 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You haven't experienced what he has experienced.

That seems to be the case.

Edited August 22 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

Let's clear something up:

When you clearly see that there is no separation and you accept it, that's called Enlightenment. When you clearly see that there is no separation but you don't accept it, that's called a spiritual emergency.

It's also perfectly valid to say he is enlightened but he just doesn't accept it. There is no need to deny the crystal clear description of his experiences. What advice you want to give is up to you.

Edited August 22 by Carl-Richard

[Ulax]

@K14N I'd recommend looking into the work of Shinzen Young. He is a mindfulness teacher. He offers a very unique method which can work where many other methods don't. Can find him via google and youtube.

Further to that I'd recommend some coaching from his organisation, if you have the finances: https://unifiedmindfulness.com/um-trainers-teachers/

Finally, an IFS therapy practioner could be helpful.

All the best.

Edited August 22 by Ulax

[EdgeGod900]

@K14N Try your best to convince yourself to keep playing as a human in this dream. Tell yourself to forget about this realization.

Play videogames, jerk off, hang out with friends, etc, just to FIND WAYS TO GET YOUR ATTENTION AWAY FROM THIS REALIZATION.

You are not ready yet or will never be. 

Edited August 22 by EdgeGod900

[Raze]

Do metta meditation and yoga to ground yourself 

[AION]

If you feel loneliness you haven’t understood solipsism. Yes consciousness is one but that doesn’t mean you are alone. You are everything so there is no separation. 
 

Read Wilbers latest book. It will help. 

[BlueOak]

Loneliness is an experience you are generating too. You are finding the loneliness within yourself and experiencing it. You don't have a default state you are infinity. In this reality, you can create an experience of yourself. If you want a joyful experience, you find the joy in yourself. If you feel this life lacks meaning, find meaning in yourself. If you want the experience of being connected, find the connections in yourself. You can have the complete opposite experience you are having now if you want to. You have the controls more now that's all, all that has changed is you've peeked behind the curtain a little.

Infinity isn't ONE, or WHOLE either. Its everything. One, Whole, Many, Split, Blue, Red, Big, Tiny.

Edited August 22 by BlueOak

[UnbornTao]

On 22/08/2024 at 3:44 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Let's clear something up:

When you clearly see that there is no separation and you accept it, that's called Enlightenment. When you clearly see that there is no separation but you don't accept it, that's called a spiritual emergency.

It's also perfectly valid to say he is enlightened but he just doesn't accept it. There is no need to deny the crystal clear description of his experiences. What advice you want to give is up to you.

Let's not call them that. A breakdown is not a breakthrough. When you understand your nature, you grasp it as it is, revealing what is already true and has always been. What does acceptance have to do with this? And why would a kensho elicit fear and pain? 

In fact, it tends to elicit laugher and joy. This suggests that what he's experiencing might be something entirely different, like a state coupled with a fair amount of unnecessary mental activity that is leading to suffering. This is secondary to the (presumed) breakthrough and can be changed by becoming aware of what you are doing, and then by stopping that unwanted activity. Being ruthlessly honest with oneself helps.

If there is no separation, why isn't love (or freedom and bliss) your experience? Why does it result in a negative outcome?

If it is a direct experience, then I'd say you haven't gone far enough. Keep looking afresh at the matter, standing on the most immediate and present sense of yourself. Then, contemplate.

The key is listening for a direct consciousness; the description is rather inconsequential. Speaking in "spiritual" and "enlightened" terms is not the same as knowing one's nature. There's a difference, which can be tricky to discern, but sometimes things have a certain scent.

Edited August 25 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

On 23.8.2024 at 0:41 AM, UnbornTao said:

Let's not call them that. A breakdown is not a breakthrough. When you understand your nature, you grasp it as it is, revealing what is already true and has always been. What does acceptance have to do with this? And why would it elicit fear and pain? 

Lack of acceptance is simply when you don't want something. A good example is the difference between consensual sex and rape. Why does one elicit such fear and pain and the other the opposite? Why are the actions so similar but the experiences so different?

 

On 23.8.2024 at 0:41 AM, UnbornTao said:

Let's not call them that. A breakdown is not a breakthrough. When you understand your nature, you grasp it as it is, revealing what is already true and has always been. What does acceptance have to do with this? And why would it elicit fear and pain? 

In fact, it tends to elicit laugher and joy. This suggests that what he's experiencing might be something entirely different, like a state and a fair amount of unnecessary mental activity. This is secondary to the (presumed) breakthrough and can be changed by becoming aware of what you are doing, and then by stopping that unwanted activity. Being ruthlessly honest with oneself helps.

If there is no separation, why isn't love your experience? Why does it result in a negative outcome?

People describe the 5-MeO-DMT experience as a superb sense of lack of separation. Why is it then possible to freak out on 5-MeO-DMT?

 

On 23.8.2024 at 0:41 AM, UnbornTao said:

If it is a direct experience, then I'd say you haven't gone far enough. Keep looking afresh at the matter, standing on the most immediate and present sense of yourself. Then, contemplate.

The key is listening for a direct consciousness; the description is rather inconsequential. Speaking in "spiritual" and "enlightened" terms is not the same as knowing one's nature. There's a difference, which can be tricky to discern, but sometimes things have a certain scent.

Let's talk about the brain for a moment. The experience of lack of separation is associated with a reduction of activity in the Default Mode Network (DMN). I'm 99% convinced that if you were to scan OP's brain while he is having these experiences, his DMN activity will be severely reduced.

Now, he will probably also have strong activity in the amygdala, because he is experiencing intense fear. And this is perfectly possible, because the DMN works largely independently of the amygdala. And this makes sense, because just because your monkeymind is shut off doesn't mean you're unable to identify threats. If that was the case, enlightened people who are deeply established in a state free of moneymind would drop like flies.

The experience of lack of separation is not a black and white thing. Reality, and particularly the human mind, is nuanced. To get deeply established in a state of lack of separation without experiencing any issues requires a deep integration of various parts of your psyche (and your brain). The parts that determine what you accept, what you fear, what you dislike, must cooperate with the parts that determine the experience of lack of separation. And for that to happen, you need to grow up, or burn through the karma that is keeping you from it.

Edited August 24 by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:04 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Lack of acceptance is simply when you don't want something. A good example is the difference between consensual sex and rape. Why does one elicit such fear and pain and the other the opposite? Why is the experience so different but the action so similar?

Not only when it is unwanted but when it is actively resisted and put up with. Notice that pain (or anything unwanted for that matter) can be allowed to be present and felt, for instance for the purpose of contemplation. But I digress.

I was wondering why these activities would relate to a direct consciousness, in the sense that they are separate events, so to speak. It'd be like freaking out at having discovered that you have five fingers in each hand. The discovery is one thing, your reaction is another (and this is what can be changed). Granted, if what he's going through is a dramatic state, whether "belief-induced" or not, then it is difficult to make this connection between what he is doing (believing) and his resulting experience. He might have convinced himself of rumors and is clearly relating negatively towards that newly-adopted "world-perspective."

That said, I'd be honest and let go of thosev ideas, whatever their content, they can't ever be true. That would provide a more solid footing from which to investigate this condition.

Quote

People describe the 5-MeO-DMT experience as a superb sense of lack of separation. Why is it then possible to freak out on 5-MeO-DMT?

Not sure, although it is a potent drug. Then again, a dramatic state shift and kensho are different.

As you say, it is a sense, a feeling, an experience –– one that is radically open and potentially blissful and freeing, but relative nevertheless. It is the "feeling one with the universe" state. And you are you regardless of state 

Quote

Let's talk about the brain for a moment. The experience of lack of separation is associated with a reduction of activity in the Default Mode Network (DMN). I'm 99% convinced that if you were to scan OP's brain while he is having these experiences, his DMN activity will be severely reduced.

Now, he will probably also have strong activity in the amygdala, because he is experiencing intense fear. And this is perfectly possible, because the DMN works largely independently of the amygdala. And this makes sense, because just because your monkeymind is shut off doesn't mean you're unable to identify threats. If that was the case, enlightened people who are deeply established in a state free of moneymind would drop like flies.

That sounds fascinating and is all relative. If it turns out to be something different from awakening, it is best to acknowledge that so that it is dealt with on its own.

Quote

The experience of lack of separation is not a black and white thing. Reality, and particularly the human mind, is nuanced. To get deeply established in a state of lack of separation without experiencing any issues requires a thorough integration of various parts of your psyche (and your brain). The parts that determine what you accept, what you fear, what you dislike, must cooperate with the parts that determine whether you're lost in thought or drowned in oneness. That is what growing up means, what "burning through karma" means.

Is awakening any of those things, though?

Would it be possible to resist a real direct apprehension of the absolute? Again, it is already true.

Actions can be investigated separately and belong to the domain of mental activity.

If it is a direct experience, I'd say relax and allow whatever it is you think you are resisting to be. Get grounded on your body, then try to clarify what you became conscious of, as soberly as possible. Keep going in that direction since it is likely that the insight will degrade into a memory and its "reality" will again be missed in favor of an intellectual conclusion or some other graspable form.

If it is something else, breathe; it is perfectly fine.

In both cases, tackle the matter openly again.

Edited August 28 by UnbornTao

[PureAwareness]

@K14N what you describe sounds familiar.

Shinzeng Young calls it "the evil twin of enlightenment". 

You experience the same oneness/void/goodconsciousness as people experience it in enlightenment BUT with a sense of total disconnectedness.

oneness + feeling of total connectedness (love) = enlightenment 

oneness + feeling of total disconnection (absence of love) = evil twin of enlightenment, Derealisation, ego-dissolution

The border between the self and the environment dissolves and you experience oneness but without a connection to "someone" or to yourself.

A connection is then needed. An authentic deep connection with a "person" or with yourself. It is easier to start with a connection to another person. Even when you feel all is one, you see other people. And for the deep connection it doesn't matter if you see the other person as seperate or as a part of your own consciousness. Important is the authentic, benevolent and understanding  relationship. It needs someone you trust and you feel safe. Someone with whom you can share your fears without the fear of rejection. Perhaps you can find a therapist, a nurs, a doctor... someone who doesn't leave when the massive fear arises an is still open and can acompany you.

I know, it is hard, and it's quite difficult to find someone in that situation.

I wish you all the best

 

 

 

Edited August 29 by PureAwareness