Is it ethical…

[Hojo]

life is about manipulation

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

I would say it's in my interest to 

For me "ethics" is just the interests that fall under suspicion, guilt, and issues of the collective unconscious in general no matter how they are rationalized.

👍

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

life is about manipulation

Manipulation, although typically viewed in a negative light, is not always a bad skill—there are times when manipulation is simply influencing others to achieve a goal or to work towards what is good for them.

[kylan11]

Resorting to intellectual sleight of hand and manipulation is and will always be inferior to actually learn how to communicate with others. People respond to genuine interest in them. They want to be heard. Only when you've given them full attention and genuine open-mindedness to consider things from their perspective will they be open to consider your concerns. Have you taken the time to do that? If not, are you instead convinced that you're correct "a priori"? Do you think you have insight on your own limits and cognitive biases?

If you're unable to communicate honestly but instead implicitly try to affirm your own superiority, you are always doomed to fail.

Good luck.

Edited August 21 by kylan11

[Spiritual Warfare]

12 minutes ago, kylan11 said:

Resorting to intellectual sleight of hand and manipulation is and will always be inferior to actually learn how to communicate with others. People respond to genuine interest in them. They want to be heard. Only when you've given them full attention and genuine open-mindedness to consider things from their perspective will they be open to consider your concerns. Have you taken the time to do that? If not, are you instead convinced that you're correct "a priori"? Do you think you have insight on your own limits and cognitive biases?

If you're unable to communicate honestly but instead implicitly try to affirm your own superiority, you are always doomed to fail.

Good luck.

Thanks for sharing 

[Basman]

Dishonesty and manipulation won't necessarily ruin a relationship but it'll never be the same again once they find out, which they usually do eventually. Just communicate if you have concerns or ideas you want to share. Manipulation is completely unnecessary.

You might have a savior complex if your trying to save people from themselves.

 

[Consept]

There are probably some cases where it makes sense to manipulate, like if someone was going to kill themselves and you cared about them youd probably try everything you could to save them. Look at addiction interventions, from what i see in films anyway, theres always some kind of coercion to get them to the venue where they basically get ambushed. Or with young kids you might exaggerate certain dangers so that they do hurt themselves. 

You can make the argument that all these things are wrong and truly you dont know whats best for people, maybe they need to go further down the dark road, but i think its hard to let that happen if you have the power to potentially change it. 

Another example is with governments, where people complain because they limit freedom, sometimes of course they can go overboard. But lets take something like seatbelts, you could argue that making seatbelts compulsory by law is manipulation, its almost forcing people to do something and people at the time complained and protested, but since it was put into law in the USA from 1975 up until 2017, it saved an estimated 374,276 lives (according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). So essentially without that form of manipulation all those lives wouldve been lost. This is the crux of the issue is that when you have power, either a someones boss, parent, relative, friend, leader whatever, you do have some kind of responsibility for them and that may include subtle forms of manipulation. The hard part is balancing that with giving them as much freedom as possible, but it definitely is a balance and not as easy as just saying 'let them do whatever', because i just dont think thats realistic in life. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

30 minutes ago, Basman said:

Dishonesty and manipulation won't necessarily ruin a relationship but it'll never be the same again once they find out, which they usually do eventually. Just communicate if you have concerns or ideas you want to share. Manipulation is completely unnecessary.

You might have a savior complex if your trying to save people from themselves.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Spiritual Warfare]

9 minutes ago, Consept said:

There are probably some cases where it makes sense to manipulate, like if someone was going to kill themselves and you cared about them youd probably try everything you could to save them. Look at addiction interventions, from what i see in films anyway, theres always some kind of coercion to get them to the venue where they basically get ambushed. Or with young kids you might exaggerate certain dangers so that they do hurt themselves. 

You can make the argument that all these things are wrong and truly you dont know whats best for people, maybe they need to go further down the dark road, but i think its hard to let that happen if you have the power to potentially change it. 

Another example is with governments, where people complain because they limit freedom, sometimes of course they can go overboard. But lets take something like seatbelts, you could argue that making seatbelts compulsory by law is manipulation, its almost forcing people to do something and people at the time complained and protested, but since it was put into law in the USA from 1975 up until 2017, it saved an estimated 374,276 lives (according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). So essentially without that form of manipulation all those lives wouldve been lost. This is the crux of the issue is that when you have power, either a someones boss, parent, relative, friend, leader whatever, you do have some kind of responsibility for them and that may include subtle forms of manipulation. The hard part is balancing that with giving them as much freedom as possible, but it definitely is a balance and not as easy as just saying 'let them do whatever', because i just dont think thats realistic in life. 

Thanks for sharing.

[Spiritual Warfare]

6 hours ago, An young being said:

That's what justice systems and governments do. They force rules upon people, and the rules vary depending on how liberal/ conservative the government is.

When even big governments struggle to find out the right choice between being liberal and conservative, we as an individual with a small brain and big biases cannot determine what's right for someone else. So, the best option is to be on the side of liberty especially when the affected person is old and mature enough, as the governments already limit the liberty of everyone in numerous ways to create the balance.

Thanks for sharing

[Spiritual Warfare]

7 hours ago, ICURBlessings said:

Protecting others or anything for that matter is a response to a perceived threat.

'Threat perception' is subjective and very contextual. Meaning what does NOT appear as a threat to one may appear as one to another.

Some Shamanistic rituals and practices may appear as a Threat to a Parent who's child is going through Shamanic initiation.

'Threat perception' that seem justified in a context is rarely correct when brought up to a wider context

Thanks for sharing.

[Spiritual Warfare]

6 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

You are starting with the assumption that you know what is better for them than themselves. How do you know this? 

What are you protecting them from? Adventure? 

I wrote that I believed, not that I know for sure but nice try to get a ”I got you moment” when you failed miserably.

[Hojo]

@kylan11 Gods using sleight of hand on you right now

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

While it may seem noble to act in the best interests of others, manipulating them can undermine their agency and lead to ethical concerns. It forces us to consider the importance of consent and respect for others' choices, even in situations where we believe we know what is best for them.

Why are you sneakily adding two sentences from a ChatGPT answer into your post? 😖

[Spiritual Warfare]

20 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why are you sneakily adding two sentences from a ChatGPT answer into your post? 😖

I’m not from America, and I have this translation from Swedish to English and that’s count as AI apparently 

[Spiritual Warfare]

@Carl-Richard It becomes very robotic sometimes🙃

[kylan11]

11 hours ago, Hojo said:

@kylan11 Gods using sleight of hand on you right now

Haha, but in my humanly egoic motivations I am not omniscient, so I don't take that privilege for myself