Is it ethical…

[Spiritual Warfare]

Is it ethical to manipulate others for the sake of protecting them? 
Wether it is justifiable to compromise someone's autonomy in the name of protecting them. While it may seem noble to act in the best interests of others, manipulating them can undermine their agency and lead to ethical concerns. It forces us to consider the importance of consent and respect for others' choices, even in situations where we believe we know what is best for them. I would really appreciate it if you members could answer what you think about this 

[ICURBlessings]

Protecting others or anything for that matter is a response to a perceived threat.

'Threat perception' is subjective and very contextual. Meaning what does NOT appear as a threat to one may appear as one to another.

Some Shamanistic rituals and practices may appear as a Threat to a Parent who's child is going through Shamanic initiation.

'Threat perception' that seem justified in a context is rarely correct when brought up to a wider context

[JosephKnecht]

1 hour ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

Is it ethical to manipulate others for the sake of protecting them? 

You are starting with the assumption that you know what is better for them than themselves. How do you know this? 

What are you protecting them from? Adventure? 

[An young being]

1 hour ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

Wether it is justifiable to compromise someone's autonomy in the name of protecting them. While it may seem noble to act in the best interests of others, manipulating them can undermine their agency and lead to ethical concerns. It forces us to consider the importance of consent and respect for others' choices, even in situations where we believe we know what is best for them. I would really appreciate it if you members could answer what you think about this 

That's what justice systems and governments do. They force rules upon people, and the rules vary depending on how liberal/ conservative the government is.

When even big governments struggle to find out the right choice between being liberal and conservative, we as an individual with a small brain and big biases cannot determine what's right for someone else. So, the best option is to be on the side of liberty especially when the affected person is old and mature enough, as the governments already limit the liberty of everyone in numerous ways to create the balance.

[Buck Edwards]

You can't really know what's best for someone. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

36 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

You can't really know what's best for someone. 

That is actually a good point😅🥲

But… 

You can tell a lot about a persons character by the way they present themselves when they flip out. It lets you know what kind of ethics they have and can reveal what they value. It also can show you what morals they value. 

Are they spiteful and vindictive? Do they escalate easily? Do they throw others under the bus? Do they resort to low-blows and personally deep insults? Do they make mean "jokes", become belittling, or become verbally or physically abusive? Do they take out their anger at innocent people? Do they get that "crazy" look in their eyes?

Seeing someone angry reveals A LOT about them. They can't hide it. It's a true "tell". You never really know someone until you've seen them at their worst...and seeing them angry is as personal and intimate as you're going to get.

Edited August 21 by MarioGabrielJ

[Marcel]

2 hours ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

While it may seem noble to act in the best interests of others,

That’s a very very slippery slope.

My first thought is. No, absolutely not.

Im aware of exactly what you mean though and have done exactly that in the past, but have learned my lessons from it.

I think if someone is heading in a way that’s “clearly” bad for them, the least thing we can do is to try and have a conversation about it with them.

Without judgment. Without lecturing. Without hysteria. Without “thinking we know better”

I would simple listen. Actually listen. And try to understand  first and foremost. Give advice if I feel qualified to do so or show a different perspective, but will ultimately let someone make their own decisions. 
 

And even if that decision turns out bad for them. I would not go about telling them the good old “I told you so” or anything similar.

Rinse and Repeat. Actually Listen. Understand the person and once again do my best to give advice if I feel qualified to give one and making sure that I tell the person that if they ever want to talk that I am always available.

Basically. Having an actual relationship / friendship with someone rather then trying to become their overlord.

 

 

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Marcel said:

That’s a very very slippery slope.

My first thought is. No, absolutely not.

Im aware of exactly what you mean though and have done exactly that in the past, but have learned my lessons from it.

I think if someone is heading in a way that’s “clearly” bad for them, the least thing we can do is to try and have a conversation about it with them.

Without judgment. Without lecturing. Without hysteria. Without “thinking we know better”

I would simple listen. Actually listen. And try to understand  first and foremost. Give advice if I feel qualified to do so or show a different perspective, but will ultimately let someone make their own decisions. 
 

And even if that decision turns out bad for them. I would not go about telling them the good old “I told you so” or anything similar.

Rinse and Repeat. Actually Listen. Understand the person and once again do my best to give advice if I feel qualified to give one and making sure that I tell the person that if they ever want to talk that I am always available.

Basically. Having an actual relationship / friendship with someone rather then trying to become their overlord.

 

 

+1

[Spiritual Warfare]

7 minutes ago, Marcel said:

That’s a very very slippery slope.

My first thought is. No, absolutely not.

Im aware of exactly what you mean though and have done exactly that in the past, but have learned my lessons from it.

I think if someone is heading in a way that’s “clearly” bad for them, the least thing we can do is to try and have a conversation about it with them.

Without judgment. Without lecturing. Without hysteria. Without “thinking we know better”

I would simple listen. Actually listen. And try to understand  first and foremost. Give advice if I feel qualified to do so or show a different perspective, but will ultimately let someone make their own decisions. 
 

And even if that decision turns out bad for them. I would not go about telling them the good old “I told you so” or anything similar.

Rinse and Repeat. Actually Listen. Understand the person and once again do my best to give advice if I feel qualified to give one and making sure that I tell the person that if they ever want to talk that I am always available.

Basically. Having an actual relationship / friendship with someone rather then trying to become their overlord.

 

 

Talk less and listen, thanks for sharing🌟

[ICURBlessings]

30 minutes ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

 

But… 

You can tell a lot about a persons character by the way they present themselves when they flip out. It lets you know what kind of ethics they have and can reveal what they value. It also can show you what morals they value. 

Are they spiteful and vindictive? Do they escalate easily? Do they throw others under the bus? Do they resort to low-blows and personally deep insults? Do they make mean "jokes", become belittling, or become verbally or physically abusive? Do they take out their anger at innocent people? Do they get that "crazy" look in their eyes?

Seeing someone angry reveals A LOT about them. They can't hide it. It's a true "tell". You never really know someone until you've seen them at their worst...and seeing them angry is as personal and intimate as you're going to get.

SURPRISE - what you describe here about a person; are that person's states and responses to a 'Perceived Threat'. All those behaviors you listed are responses to a 'Perceived Threat'.

And these responses - from a wider context - are how we arm ourselves and others.

In a nutshell - the solution or helpfulness is to remind that person that they are truly loved and truly safe.

[Spiritual Warfare]

Just now, ICURBlessings said:

SURPRISE - what you describe here about a person; are that person's states and responses to a 'Perceived Threat'. All those behaviors you listed are responses to a 'Perceived Threat'.

And these responses - from a wider context - are how we arm ourselves and others.

In a nutshell - the solution or helpfulness is to remind that person that they are truly loved and truly safe.

There is an unspoken known that is, but the best way is just let it be known…I Love You…nothing else, correct my friend.

It is something that is without words but often isn’t heard until it is said.

You can feel it with or without

You just know.

Feel it

Know it

If you need to hear it

I LOVE YOU

[Hojo]

who are you to protect someone from God. However this is done with every single human being ever made.

Edited August 21 by Hojo

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

who are you to protect someone from God

God is not higher than me, and I dont trust God😏

[Keryo Koffa]

4 minutes ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

God is not higher than me, and I dont trust God😏

@MarioGabrielJ What about Jesus?

[Spiritual Warfare]

3 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

@MarioGabrielJ What about Jesus?

Not even him, me myself and I

[Atb210201]

It's best to not manipulate

But in some contexts maybe I don't know I just don't want to talk absolutism In moral issues

Morality is a hard road to walk on sometimes

But as long as we can It's best that we don't manipulate cause it won't be real for them

Edited August 21 by Atb210201

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 minute ago, Atb210201 said:

It's best to not manipulate

But in some contexts maybe I don't know I just don't want to talk absolutism In moral issues

But as long as we can It's best that we don't manipulate cause it won't be real for them

I agree with you.

[Schizophonia]

I would say it's subjective.

Each choice will produce consequences that we can both judges good and bad. 

[Spiritual Warfare]

6 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I would say it's subjective.

Each choice will produce consequences that we can both judges good and bad. 

Is it ethical for you to lie in order to protect someone from harm, and where do we draw the line between protection and manipulation? 

[Schizophonia]

14 minutes ago, MarioGabrielJ said:

Is it ethical for you to lie in order to protect someone from harm, and where do we draw the line between protection and manipulation? 

I would say it's in my interest to 

For me "ethics" is just the interests that fall under suspicion, guilt, and issues of the collective unconscious in general no matter how they are rationalized.

Edited August 21 by Schizophonia