Contemplating Time Part 2: Time Is Not An Illusion

[r0ckyreed]

I have been contemplating the nature of time, and I came to these conclusions as of now.

Time is a fundamental part of reality. Time is something that all of life revolves around but itself cannot be grasped. Time presents a paradox to life in that it is central to life but yet cannot be controlled. Everything we do is bound by time, from our daily routines to long-term goals, and even your ability to read what I am writing here.

To say time is an illusion seems to dismiss the direct experience being had here in that change is happening. Time, change, and memory go together. There cannot be change or memory without time because change and memory implies a before and an after. On the other hand, there is the paradox that all time is happening in the eternal now and that the past, present, and future are being imagined simultaneously. 

Did the past really happen? What exactly is the past but your mind reconstructing it in the present? Time is a figment of consciousness. If consciousness did not have time, there could not be any experience. What is an experience without a before and an after? 

The future is more an illusion than the past because technically the future is an idea of what you can create now but haven't. Possibility is the only real function of the future and our story is the purpose of the past.

In a way, our past is constructed but in a way, our past did happen but maybe not in the way we think it might.

For instance, I have memories of the past, but the memories of themselves are never an exact replica of the past. Even if I had a body cam throughout my life, that still wouldn't be able to capture all of that time because the past also includes all of my thoughts, stories, feelings, and beliefs I had at that particular time. The now is so infinite that it includes infinite past and future. 

All memory is about the past that is occurring in the present. For instance, you read this post. You couldn't comprehend what I wrote without time. I think of time like a book in that we have a beginning, middle, and end - a past, present, and future. But our particular human consciousness cannot go back and flip through to old chapters like you can in a book. The only way a human consciousness can go back into the past is by remembering it in the present, and this process of re-membering is also a constructive process.

Time is still very tricky, but I have realized that it is more fundamental than I thought. Buddhists Bats will try to convince you that time is an illusion, but yet they will tell you to sit and meditate and be patient and "wait for your enlightenment." There are even different forms of time such as psychological time, biological time, sociological time, physical time, etc., so what form of time are these Buddhist Bats saying is an illusion? 

There is a before enlightenment and after enlightenment. Right now, I am not enlightened. Will I ever be? I don't know. Leo also has claimed to access God Consciousness. But is he conscious of that now? I don't know. But at some point, your mystical experiences fade into the past where your present is left with but a memory of your so-called enlightenment experience. But if all your left with is a memory of your God-Realization, Alien Consciousness Psychedelic trip, then how can you claim that, that is real but the past is an illusion if all of your mystical experiences are part of the past experienced in the present?

If you get that last sentence, then you understand the problem. There is no such thing as an enlightened/awakened being. You cannot freeze your awakening in time. Forget about your previous awakenings. You are either directly conscious of the absolute truth right now or you aren't. And there will be parts of your life, instances in time in which you will not be awake/enlightened no matter how conscious you have become.

So, my ultimate conclusion is that time exists and is fundamental to consciousness. There is nothing for consciousness to be conscious of without time, a before and an after. Time is change, time is experience. We are all slave to time. Whether we like it or not, we are all going to die. Is death a belief? No. To say death is a belief is death-denial. Your human form will die, but the essence of reality cannot. Now, it is up for us what to do with our time and really I am referring to what you are gonna do with your consciousness in your finite amount of time on the earth.

Edit: Here’s a practice exercise. The next time you are taking a piss, contemplate time. Notice that there is a before and an after. After you are done, you can contemplate if you actually experienced pissing or if you just imagined it.  

Please let me know what your thoughts are on the nature of time. And feel free to take your time.  

Edited August 20 by r0ckyreed

[michaelcycle00]

Isn't it a lot simpler than this? Time doesn't exist because everything is imagined in the NOW. So for example this particular "now" where you're reading this text is the same "now" that was 15 years ago when you were watching Breaking Bad. How? Well since reality is boundless/infinite/unlimited it can BE anything at all at any given moment. So there's ultimately no reason why at this very next milisecond reality can't become 5 year old me playing with toy cars, or 50 year old Leo giving a seminar. Since consciousness is non-localized, where would time be stationed at? Simple, it can't be, as it's really just a concept within boundless reality BEING something at all... in this case spacetime. 

And I can simplify this even further. Think how time is dependent on movement. Imagine if your POV froze and there was somehow just a 3D picture of your reality. Where is time there? So you will say "yeah, but there IS movement indeed", and the answer to that to make matters easier to grasp is that reality is generated or "rendered" on the fly, like a videogame, and it can render anything at all instantly. And, it's doing so right NOW because it can never not be itself, whatever shape or form it has taken. Which means it HAS to do it on the fly, on the now, meaning that it's not like it's projecting this reality right here whilst doing "Godly" infinite stuff in the background. So any experience at all doesn't have any meaning, because it may as well be anything else at all, given that it can be.

Hope I was clear enough, haha.

Edited August 20 by michaelcycle00

[Atb210201]

Time does not exist in the realm of God

Timelessness dominates there

That's the realm of the changeless

But of course time and change exist in our day to day realm of physical reality it is the fundamental engine that runs the physical reality and makes it happen

Edited August 20 by Atb210201

[El Zapato]

Kant's most famous work, the Critique of Pure Reason answers all?  We can indulge in existential contemplation but things will come out the other end the same as they went in.

[El Zapato]

2 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

Time does not exist in the realm of God

Timelessness dominates there

That's the realm of the changeless

But of course time and change exist in our day to day realm of physical reality it is the fundamental engine that runs the physical reality and makes it happen

Timeless perhaps?  Changeless?  Never, that runs contrary to the nature of the cosmos in which things are constantly in flux.  Without change, everything is meaningless?  The more humanity learns of creation, the more obvious it becomes that 'God' and cosmic creation are the same.   

[Atb210201]

54 minutes ago, El Zapato said:

Timeless perhaps?  Changeless?  Never, that runs contrary to the nature of the cosmos in which things are constantly in flux.

Who said anything about the cosmos?

I said God is timeless and changeless

And no God is not the cosmos he is beyond everything

If God is the cosmos he is limited that is not a God which is supposed to be unlimited and infinite

The cosmos is finite not infinite

Anything that is physical and has a form is finite

Every "thing" is finite

God is not a "thing"

Edited August 20 by Atb210201

[El Zapato]

29 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Who said anything about the cosmos?

I said God is timeless and changeless

And no God is not the cosmos he is beyond everything

If God is the cosmos he is limited that is not a God which is supposed to be unlimited and infinite

The cosmos is finite not infinite

Anything that is physical and has a form is finite

Every "thing" is finite

God is not a "thing"

Is not the cosmos a 'manifestation' of God?  Does God not follow the rules that essence manifests? The Universe is universal by definition, so says both spirituality and science

Edited August 20 by El Zapato
added info

[r0ckyreed]

6 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Isn't it a lot simpler than this? Time doesn't exist because everything is imagined in the NOW. So for example this particular "now" where you're reading this text is the same "now" that was 15 years ago when you were watching Breaking Bad. How? Well since reality is boundless/infinite/unlimited it can BE anything at all at any given moment. So there's ultimately no reason why at this very next milisecond reality can't become 5 year old me playing with toy cars, or 50 year old Leo giving a seminar. Since consciousness is non-localized, where would time be stationed at? Simple, it can't be, as it's really just a concept within boundless reality BEING something at all... in this case spacetime. 

And I can simplify this even further. Think how time is dependent on movement. Imagine if your POV froze and there was somehow just a 3D picture of your reality. Where is time there? So you will say "yeah, but there IS movement indeed", and the answer to that to make matters easier to grasp is that reality is generated or "rendered" on the fly, like a videogame, and it can render anything at all instantly. And, it's doing so right NOW because it can never not be itself, whatever shape or form it has taken. Which means it HAS to do it on the fly, on the now, meaning that it's not like it's projecting this reality right here whilst doing "Godly" infinite stuff in the background. So any experience at all doesn't have any meaning, because it may as well be anything else at all, given that it can be.

Hope I was clear enough, haha.

I would say that movement is dependent on time. Time is as real as gravity. You cannot see gravity, but you can witness the effects of it. Likewise, if you drop a pen, it could not fall without time. If there is no time, reality would be frozen and there would be nothing to think about. You couldn’t even read this message or respond to it without time. 

Change is occurring in the now, but change is bound by time. There is a before and an after. Our mind constructs this, but it is as real as dropping a pen. There is a before the pen is in my hand and an after it is on the ground, before you read this post and an after, before you learn something and after. How would you explain this evident truth thst there is a before and after? 

If there is no time, then how do you explain change. It is hard to conceive of change existing without a before and after.

Edited August 20 by r0ckyreed

[Atb210201]

50 minutes ago, El Zapato said:

Is not the cosmos a 'manifestation' of God?  Does God not follow the rules that essence manifests? The Universe is universal by definition, so says both spirituality and science

The Universe is a manifestation of God

But it is not God it is only from God not equal to God because that would be limiting God

You can also say it is God nothing wrong with that I see your logic there and it is logical but also it is limiting God in my logic because I see the Universe as finite

(By Universe I mean everything that is visible and measurable and has a shape and form and physicality)

You may say the Universe itself is infinite

Well then you do you my friend

Of course I'm not saying God is separate from the Universe and is another thing different from the Universe but also I am saying that

God is at the same time One with the Universe and Seperate from the Universe

God is at the same time Same with the Universe and different from the Universe

He is both 

He is the unifying factor of all dualities and contradictions

Edited August 20 by Atb210201

[r0ckyreed]

19 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

The Universe is a manifestation of God

But it is not God it is only from God not equal to God because that would be limiting God

You can also say it is God nothing wrong with that I see your logic there and it is logical but also it is limiting God in my logic because I see the Universe as finite

(By Universe I mean everything that is visible and measurable and has a shape and form and physicality)

You may say the Universe itself is infinite

Well then you do you my friend

Hey fellas. Your arguments about God are taking time away from arguing about time. 

[Atb210201]

2 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Hey fellas. Your arguments about God are taking time away from arguing about time. 

I was talking about time buddy

As you said time is change and time is motion

Time is everything that is born and will die

Time is everything that has a beginning and an end

Time is the engine of physical reality itself

[LastThursday]

I think it's very hard to talk about time without involving time itself. All the stuff about an ever-present now, and saying there's no past or future, is trying to explain time in terms of time itself.

You could just say the passing of time is a quality of consciousness, much like "red" or "loud" is. Like it's impossible to explain "red" without experiencing it directly yourself, it's the same with time.

Time is ubiquitous though. It never stops and everywhere you go it's there, so it's not the exactly the same as "red" or "loud". But it is the same as consciousness itself: it's always there. Are the two the same thing? Is time just consciousness? I don't know.

If time is synonymous with change, then it could be because reality is groundless. Time itself seems absolute, but its manifestation is not: all appearances within consciousness are in relation to all other appearances. This means that appearances are untethered (groundless) and are completely free to shift and dance around each other. I think it's this constant shifting around that is time itself. But the change does happen at a certain rate (another time related word!), and that also seems to be absolute.

Edited August 20 by LastThursday

[Ishanga]

Because You have a Body, and Your Identified with this Body (You think this is Me), Time plays a huge factor in your life because the Body shows the effect of Time, if You dis identify with the Body then this goes away Greatly, You will still Use practical time for the purpose it serves, but will not use it when its not needed.. 

The past did exist but not Now, and the Future never existed, Past is realized via Memory, Future is realized via Imagination, both of these come from Your Mind, Mind is never NOW based, its past/memory or future/imagination based, so when You dis identify with the Mind, the Present Moment takes precedence and the NOW become primary and is felt more Intensely, You still use the past to become Wise (not Wounded) and the Future to imagine and plan, but You still more NOW present to experience the highest experience a Human can Feel!

[r0ckyreed]

9 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I think it's very hard to talk about time without involving time itself. All the stuff about an ever-present now, and saying there's no past or future, is trying to explain time in terms of time itself.

You could just say the passing of time is a quality of consciousness, much like "red" or "loud" is. Like it's impossible to explain "red" without experiencing it directly yourself, it's the same with time.

Time is ubiquitous though. It never stops and everywhere you go it's there, so it's not the exactly the same as "red" or "loud". But it is the same as consciousness itself: it's always there. Are the two the same thing? Is time just consciousness? I don't know.

If time is synonymous with change, then it could be because reality is groundless. Time itself seems absolute, but its manifestation is not: all appearances within consciousness are in relation to all other appearances. This means that appearances are untethered (groundless) and are completely free to shift and dance around each other. I think it's this constant shifting around that is time itself. But the change does happen at a certain rate (another time related word!), and that also seems to be absolute.

I like it! Time is like gravity. You cannot see it, but it exists. It is a quality of consciousness. 

[Princess Arabia]

It's pretty simple. All of life is an illusion. Thought is time. There's nothing really happening at the existential level. It's all appearances. If you burn wood, it turns into ash. Where did the fire go. It became one with the ashes. Is the fire separate from the ash. It took time for the wood to burn and turn into ash. Is there time now between the fire and the ash. No. Both are entangled. There's no space and time between the fire, wood and ashes. It all became one. No distance, time or space. The ash didn't make itself, neither did the wood nor fire. They all were born out of something, but now they're all one. No separation.

In order for creation to happen, time is needed. For each expressions of the same source. The appearance of ash stem from fire and wood. Ash does not appear on its own. Fire needs a spark, so that's also dependent on something to exist prior. Everything is in relation to everything else. No separation. Where is the time in that. It's an illusion because there is no separation only appears to be and thought is what makes that possible.

You thought about making a fire to burn the wood which turned into ash. Without thought none of this would have happened. Without time and space none of this could occur. Now, thought, time, space, fire, wood, ash are all entangled. The end result is the ash but that ash will eventually turn into dust or whatever which will also be a part of the equation; and whatever the dust turn into will also be a part of that equation to infinity. Where did it all start, with a thought. Where did the thought came from? Universal mind. So, Universal mind to ash to dust.....and so on required time and space, which it imagines to be able to create all that in between stuff. It had to imagine time and space. It's all imagination. I can sit here and imagine myself at the beach. Where is the time and space in that. So time and space are illusions which is created by thought. Phew! And that's all thought which created the time and space to be able to write this epilogue.

[El Zapato]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:04 AM, r0ckyreed said:

Hey fellas. Your arguments about God are taking time away from arguing about time. 

Disagree there, they are one and the same... concomitant with the unknowable.  Time as we perceive is just molecular motion. An analogy might be as a plane, a 2d object can increase or decrease its dimensions but in a physical reality it will not remain static over ... time. Time in any context will reflect changes with the exception of the 'universal'.  Time still exists but does not reflect anything.  It still remains as an attribute of the 'unknowable' but it has no function, it simply has no meaning.

[Dodo]

On 20/08/2024 at 5:57 AM, r0ckyreed said:

I have been contemplating the nature of time, and I came to these conclusions as of now.

Time is a fundamental part of reality. Time is something that all of life revolves around but itself cannot be grasped. Time presents a paradox to life in that it is central to life but yet cannot be controlled. Everything we do is bound by time, from our daily routines to long-term goals, and even your ability to read what I am writing here.

To say time is an illusion seems to dismiss the direct experience being had here in that change is happening. Time, change, and memory go together. There cannot be change or memory without time because change and memory implies a before and an after. On the other hand, there is the paradox that all time is happening in the eternal now and that the past, present, and future are being imagined simultaneously. 

Did the past really happen? What exactly is the past but your mind reconstructing it in the present? Time is a figment of consciousness. If consciousness did not have time, there could not be any experience. What is an experience without a before and an after? 

The future is more an illusion than the past because technically the future is an idea of what you can create now but haven't. Possibility is the only real function of the future and our story is the purpose of the past.

In a way, our past is constructed but in a way, our past did happen but maybe not in the way we think it might.

For instance, I have memories of the past, but the memories of themselves are never an exact replica of the past. Even if I had a body cam throughout my life, that still wouldn't be able to capture all of that time because the past also includes all of my thoughts, stories, feelings, and beliefs I had at that particular time. The now is so infinite that it includes infinite past and future. 

All memory is about the past that is occurring in the present. For instance, you read this post. You couldn't comprehend what I wrote without time. I think of time like a book in that we have a beginning, middle, and end - a past, present, and future. But our particular human consciousness cannot go back and flip through to old chapters like you can in a book. The only way a human consciousness can go back into the past is by remembering it in the present, and this process of re-membering is also a constructive process.

Time is still very tricky, but I have realized that it is more fundamental than I thought. Buddhists Bats will try to convince you that time is an illusion, but yet they will tell you to sit and meditate and be patient and "wait for your enlightenment." There are even different forms of time such as psychological time, biological time, sociological time, physical time, etc., so what form of time are these Buddhist Bats saying is an illusion? 

There is a before enlightenment and after enlightenment. Right now, I am not enlightened. Will I ever be? I don't know. Leo also has claimed to access God Consciousness. But is he conscious of that now? I don't know. But at some point, your mystical experiences fade into the past where your present is left with but a memory of your so-called enlightenment experience. But if all your left with is a memory of your God-Realization, Alien Consciousness Psychedelic trip, then how can you claim that, that is real but the past is an illusion if all of your mystical experiences are part of the past experienced in the present?

If you get that last sentence, then you understand the problem. There is no such thing as an enlightened/awakened being. You cannot freeze your awakening in time. Forget about your previous awakenings. You are either directly conscious of the absolute truth right now or you aren't. And there will be parts of your life, instances in time in which you will not be awake/enlightened no matter how conscious you have become.

So, my ultimate conclusion is that time exists and is fundamental to consciousness. There is nothing for consciousness to be conscious of without time, a before and an after. Time is change, time is experience. We are all slave to time. Whether we like it or not, we are all going to die. Is death a belief? No. To say death is a belief is death-denial. Your human form will die, but the essence of reality cannot. Now, it is up for us what to do with our time and really I am referring to what you are gonna do with your consciousness in your finite amount of time on the earth.

Edit: Here’s a practice exercise. The next time you are taking a piss, contemplate time. Notice that there is a before and an after. After you are done, you can contemplate if you actually experienced pissing or if you just imagined it.  

Please let me know what your thoughts are on the nature of time. And feel free to take your time.  

I think the wise answer is "there is pissing, but no pisser" 😆 

To an illusion, incarnated human self, the illusion of spacetime is real, cause the human itself is part of that spacetime.

Both the same illusion, so to human spacetime appear real. Like the spacetime in your dreams! Sike

I really, really flew in my dreams! It happened, it was real while it was happening, to my illusory character within the dream. 

Ive met Leo, Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira in my dreams! It really happened, it was real while it was happening. I had real conversations with them, real experiences, in a much different spacetime than the current waking one...

Edited August 22 by Dodo

[ICURBlessings]

On 8/19/2024 at 11:57 PM, r0ckyreed said:

I have been contemplating the nature of time,...

Reading the consolidating of your observation on Time - I see someone that is just discovering Time. You have barely scratched the surface of the nature of time. 

Have you contemplated the meaning of Einstein theory of relativity yet? Have you realize yet the meaning of the fundamental nature of Spacetime (Time) as a Non-Absolute? Have you contemplated on the Nature of Gravity and how it bends, and stretch, and compresses Time? If NOT, then you will enjoy that even more.

Those that have truly realized the illusory nature of Time, have been to the point you have in your journey of contemplation - and then they went further, and further, and much, much further on that journey.

Your error in judging that Time is inherent to consciousness is the error of believing that you went as far as one needs to go to truly realize the Nature of Time.

 

As long as one contemplate Time within the continuum of spacetime, one will have only understood the Nature of Time in a very limited way.

 

Atb210201 stated:

Time does not exist in the realm of God

Timelessness dominates there

That's the realm of the changeless

He is referring to 'The Absolute' which require a completely different level of inquiry, exploration, and contemplation.

Do not judge what you do not understand because one day you will want to understand.

[Ero]

Time is in fact not ‘fundamental’ even per modern day physics - due to Relativity, your speed determines the extent of your time dilation. Photons do not experience time. The singularity at the center of a Black Hole is at “the end of time”. The space-time manifold is the basis on which this rests.

Another less-cosmic in scale realisation is related to entropy production. It is what determines the “clock” for chemical and biological organisms, and it is again something that can be tuned.

[Breakingthewall]

time=movement. Without movement there is no time. Time is nothing, it is just an idea to measure movement.