Is Financial Domination a crime?

[Javfly33]

Modern sex-positive fetish-positive culture will say that is Ok, but I´ve seen guys send from 500$ to even 1K in a single send to her 'goddess'.

Or being kicked in the balls several times, handle hundreds of dollars to his 'goddess' and then her laughing about him and going away.

There is even a name for this sessions which is called 'Cashmeet'. Where the loser or paypig meets his 'goddess' in a point in the city to just give her money, maybe in return get some insults on what a loser he is and that´s it.

Terryfing the state of this world sometimes!

 

 

Edited August 16 by Javfly33

[museumoftrees]

Nothing about this is fascinating or is tied to self-improvement

Edited August 16 by museumoftrees

[Emerald]

I don't think it's a crime, but I do think it's exploitative.

That is, unless the guy is wealthy enough and he's not emptying his bank account... and he is in a healthy enough place to have firm boundaries regarding his fetish.

Like if a guy has an extra $1k to burn on this fetish and he indulges it once or twice a year... and he's able to otherwise pay bills. And it's just something he does for a thrill here and there in a way that doesn't involve psychological distress... then that's fine.

But I'm imagining with this particular fetish that that doesn't exist. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only imagine a guy wanting this dynamic because of deeper feelings of shame and that he's seeking a trigger for the shame.

The issue is that I get the sense that this type of fetish can come from deeper-seated psychological distress as opposed to just a way someone gets their kicks.

 

[bambi]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

I don't think it's a crime, but I do think it's exploitative.

That is, unless the guy is wealthy enough and he's not emptying his bank account... and he is in a healthy enough place to have firm boundaries regarding his fetish.

Like if a guy has an extra $1k to burn on this fetish and he indulges it once or twice a year... and he's able to otherwise pay bills. And it's just something he does for a thrill here and there in a way that doesn't involve psychological distress... then that's fine.

But I'm imagining with this particular fetish that that doesn't exist. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only imagine a guy wanting this dynamic because of deeper feelings of shame and that he's seeking a trigger for the shame.

The issue is that I get the sense that this type of fetish can come from deeper-seated psychological distress as opposed to just a way someone gets their kicks.

 

But I dont think anyone can say this is healthy, right? lol

There is no way you can get a 'kick' from this without deep pyschological pathology, its exploitative and abusive, consensual or not. No self-respecting (i.e. self -esteem) human would engage in this type of behaviour from either partner, it simply wouldnt be possible theres nothing attractive about it

[Emerald]

11 hours ago, bambi said:

But I dont think anyone can say this is healthy, right? lol

There is no way you can get a 'kick' from this without deep pyschological pathology, its exploitative and abusive, consensual or not. No self-respecting (i.e. self -esteem) human would engage in this type of behaviour from either partner, it simply wouldnt be possible theres nothing attractive about it

That's where the difficulty is in discerning.

Like, I know that there are people who enjoy experiencing being dominated. And with that enjoyment comes the stripping away of both power and responsibility and surrendering both of those things to the other person. And it creates a euphoric powerlessness and smallness in the best form. 

So, desiring to be made powerless is relatable... and doesn't always come from shame.

And because money is a tool of power, I can see how someone might enjoy playing through a scene where someone steals that power away from them in the form of money.

So, I can understand why someone would value that from a non-shame-based perspective.

That said, the reason why I lean towards it being more exploitative is because the person who's giving up the money may not actually have enough to cover their bills... and it may cause long-term issues for them. And the other person engaging in that with them probably doesn't have their best interests at heart.

There's also a strong possibility that the person is engaging in that because they don't feel worthy of sexual attention unless they're giving money or something else. Or that they're using the experience only to trigger shame and to reinforce shame narratives.

So... the distinguishing factors I would make is "How in control of this fetish is the person?" "Are they using money that they can afford to lose?" "Does the dominator/dominatrix have their genuine interests at heart and set clear ethical boundaries... or are they just exploiting the person?" "Is it a means for the person to wallow in self-punishment and self-hatred? Or do they enjoy it in similar ways like someone might enjoy being tied up?"

This is why I lean towards it being exploitative because there are so many safeguards that would have to be met that I don't necessarily think is there.

That said, in the BDSM community more generally... there is a very strong focus towards boundaries between subs and doms to keep the subs safe.

That's why there are contracts and all sorts of other things done to set clear boundaries.

So, if it's approached the same way with financial domination, then I'd see it in the same light as any other BDSM dynamic. But I don't know if financial domination is even widely accepted as valid in the BDSM community.

[Lyubov]

It’s dishonest exploitation of men, but they are not victims. They need to become conscious and take responsibility for their lives and stop feeding this parasitic crap. Guys like this and onlyfans and simp culture and instagram are causing massive hoeflation today. 

Edited August 17 by Lyubov

[Emotionalmosquito]

Surely there are better ways to get kicked in the rocks than emptying your wallet. Check out all these these girls who were willing to do it for their own amusement for free to poor unsuspecting guys against their will. The last one was just evil ☠️

Giving money to women is my version of the average man’s reaction to the idea of getting kicked in the balls. Getting kicked in the balls (not insanely hard) is my version of the average man’s enjoyment of sex.

[bambi]

11 hours ago, Emerald said:

That's where the difficulty is in discerning.

Like, I know that there are people who enjoy experiencing being dominated. And with that enjoyment comes the stripping away of both power and responsibility and surrendering both of those things to the other person. And it creates a euphoric powerlessness and smallness in the best form. 

So, desiring to be made powerless is relatable... and doesn't always come from shame.

And because money is a tool of power, I can see how someone might enjoy playing through a scene where someone steals that power away from them in the form of money.

So, I can understand why someone would value that from a non-shame-based perspective.

That said, the reason why I lean towards it being more exploitative is because the person who's giving up the money may not actually have enough to cover their bills... and it may cause long-term issues for them. And the other person engaging in that with them probably doesn't have their best interests at heart.

There's also a strong possibility that the person is engaging in that because they don't feel worthy of sexual attention unless they're giving money or something else. Or that they're using the experience only to trigger shame and to reinforce shame narratives.

So... the distinguishing factors I would make is "How in control of this fetish is the person?" "Are they using money that they can afford to lose?" "Does the dominator/dominatrix have their genuine interests at heart and set clear ethical boundaries... or are they just exploiting the person?" "Is it a means for the person to wallow in self-punishment and self-hatred? Or do they enjoy it in similar ways like someone might enjoy being tied up?"

This is why I lean towards it being exploitative because there are so many safeguards that would have to be met that I don't necessarily think is there.

That said, in the BDSM community more generally... there is a very strong focus towards boundaries between subs and doms to keep the subs safe.

That's why there are contracts and all sorts of other things done to set clear boundaries.

So, if it's approached the same way with financial domination, then I'd see it in the same light as any other BDSM dynamic. But I don't know if financial domination is even widely accepted as valid in the BDSM community.

Look if two people where doing some of this activities in a thereupetic setting with the core goal to heal, so an advanced form of therapy, there might be some utility in some of this practices for short term integration, as part of a wider, focused healing strategy. But that is not what I see being done, or the intent behind any of this. Most people make it into a pleasure activity and lifestyle.

To me BDSM is also an egoic trauma based activity, that psychologically healthy people dont engage with or need to engage with. Its playing on repressed elements of self-rejection, denile and  shame.  When you fully accept them they tend to dissapear.

BDSM ranges from from the literal inflicting of phsyical pain and harm on people, and/or extreme pyschological degradation, to 'lighter' versions where people simply need an escape (from themselves and reality),  so they use different forms of BDSM to scratch that pathological itch to differing degrees. 

None of this shit is remotely healthy in my opinion. Getting pleasure from an activity has no bearing on whether it is healthy or not

Everything you mention is trauma based sexuality. And your somehow trying to normalise it, or not understanding that binding your sexuality and your trauma, is not a good strategy.

The degree of 'safety' , 'care' or 'rules' in the 'community' also has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether its fundementally healthy or not, this is fallacious. Take a cookie shop, that has limits and rules and the amount of cookies you can eat, and a supportive community around cookies -> has no bearing on whether the cookies or healthy for you or not, does it?

BDSM is basically playing on unresolved psychological issues, played out in a sexual setting. At the lighter end you have people engaging in it for the Art and play, like Shibari. And on the other end its just totally destructive; human pay pigs, human ash trays, slaves, pooing and urinating on people. Like what planet are we on where 90% of that shit is remotely healthy. Further they then create an 'identity' around this and form 'communities' lol!

Why do people struggle to say; 'Fundementally its not healthy, but if you want to engage with it, thats your perogative'.

I am open to some forms of light BDSM activities done for fun/art without any overt harm - Shibari for example.

But I am strictly against all the forms of dissocation, escapism, humiliation, degradation, pain, hatred, anger, abuse, manipulation, exploitaiton  being healthy expressions of sexuality, that is the core of most BDSM, no matter how consensual it is. This is more an additional sign of how sick our society has become.

Do you honestly think someone who has fully healed and intergated their psyche; they have no repressed anger, shame, self-rejection, self-hatrednes, hatredness to others,  or resentments would remotely enjoy 99% of this stuff?

IF someone has authentic self-esteem, accepted and loves themselves and others, how are they engaging in 99% of this stuff. It doesnt even make sense

 

Edited August 18 by bambi

[Buck Edwards]

It's  basically exploitation. But the guys involved need to develop self esteem and a shit load of work to do to be able to stop their addiction. Even if they don't spend on the girls, they will end up spending it on something else. It's their psychology that they need to control. 

 

[Princess Arabia]

11 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Surely there are better ways to get kicked in the rocks than emptying your wallet. Check out all these these girls who were willing to do it for their own amusement for free to poor unsuspecting guys against their will. The last one was just evil ☠️

Giving money to women is my version of the average man’s reaction to the idea of getting kicked in the balls. Getting kicked in the balls (not insanely hard) is my version of the average man’s enjoyment of sex.

Silliest thing I've seen in awhile. Then again, infinity includes everything, dumb and all.

[Princess Arabia]

This topic is like the vegan/meat debate. It never ends and everyone have their own opinions about it. Funny how people will quickly say how these men are being exploited. Give me a break. These grown men don't think so. Infact, they wouldn't have it any other way. How is it exploitation when these men are seeking this shit out. You'll say they have been traumatized and blah blah. Save all your rationalizations and reasonings as to the why's. Men can be weird in the shit they like. It's that simple. Even if it's from trauma, so what, Spear me the details. No one puts the responsibility on the men to take care of whatever mental shit they're going through, if any. It's always. these men are being exploited. Always blaming the women. These men are just as responsible because I don't see a gun pointing at their heads; in fact, they are drooling over this shit. 

Edited August 18 by Princess Arabia

[bambi]

42 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This topic is like the vegan/meat debate. It never ends and everyone have their own opinions about it. Funny how people will quickly say how these men are being exploited. Give me a break. These grown men don't think so. Infact, they wouldn't have it any other way. How is it exploitation when these men are seeking this shit out. You'll say they have been traumatized and blah blah. Save all your rationalizations and reasonings as to the why's. Men can be weird in the shit they like. It's that simple. Even if it's from trauma, so what, Spear me the details. No one puts the responsibility on the men to take care of whatever mental shit they're going through, if any. It's always. these men are being exploited. Always blaming the women. These men are just as responsible because I don't see a gun pointing at their heads; in fact, they are drooling over this shit. 

Ah yes thank you for brining your chronic, re-occuring and severely repressed trauma around sexuality and gender dynamics, into another thread. Valuable contribution. 

Only thing that was missing were more comparisons to infinity or some other completely irrelevant intellectual hyper-abstractionism, that has no real world tangible impact to the discussion.

If you notice all my posts are gender-agnostic, participant agnostic, and role-agnostic, its a lose lose for everyone involved

[Nemra]

@Javfly33

Well, I think, in this case, if you had infinite money, it wouldn't have been a problem.

People are wrong for shaming for these kinds of fetishes. But it can be exploitative because it's tied to money. Knowing people's intentions beyond pleasure is important.

The solution is: understand yourself better and on a deeper level, and never listen to ignorant, biased people on this matter.

Edited August 18 by Nemra

[bambi]

27 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Javfly33

Well, I think, in this case, if you had infinite money, it wouldn't have been a problem.

People are wrong for shaming people for these kinds of fetishes. But it can be exploitative because it's tied to money.

The solution is: understand yourself better and on a deeper level, and never listen to ignorant, biased people on this matter.

This is a deep fallacy. Saying something is unhealthy or even exploitative, or any other description is not the same as shaming them. It beggars belief how people are make this false equivalency without realising it.

People are making an assessment in the context of health. For it to invoke a moral judgement such as shame, they would have to make a declarative statement assesing the morality of it. That is not happening

Edited August 18 by bambi

[Nemra]

@bambi 

I wasn't saying that you do. But people can moralize on these matters by justifying what is healthy or not healthy for someone.

Do you really think people are just making an assessment?

Maybe you do; idk yet.

Edited August 18 by Nemra

[WillCameron]

I work with men who struggle with porn addiction. As others have said, a lot of them have very deep shame and feel like they deserve to be treated like garbage. I'm all for people having whatever thrills they want, but I know of guys who have spent 6 figures on prostitutes, OF, etc. It takes over their lives. I had a conversation with an escort and her perspective was that, "it's an exchange of services between two consenting adults," and then in the same conversation blamed capitalism. There is little empathy in some escorts and a lack of responsibility. I'm not foolish enough to make blanket claims about the industry, and I definitely don't think capitalism creates the highest consciousness affordances, but she isn't the only one who thinks like that. I think there is a healthy way to live even extreme kinks, but it wouldn't surprise me if the majority are not doing so.

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, bambi said:

Ah yes thank you for brining your chronic, re-occuring and severely repressed trauma around sexuality and gender dynamics, into another thread. Valuable contribution. 

Only thing that was missing were more comparisons to infinity or some other completely irrelevant intellectual hyper-abstractionism, that has no real world tangible impact to the discussion.

If you notice all my posts are gender-agnostic, participant agnostic, and role-agnostic, its a lose lose for everyone involved

blah blah blah. You must use the word trauma the most on the forum. Doesn't it traumatize you when the food industry takes your money and robs you of nutrients. I'll be sexually traumatized for you honey if it makes you feel better. All I'm doing is pointing out something that I'm familiar with. Of course it's not in all cases, but most of these guys couldn't care less about you labelling them as the exploited. These perverts enjoy what they're doing and gets off on it. Nothing you say will change that. They know exactly what they're doing. Lawyers, doctors Indians and chiefs are all included. You don't know that these guys have their stash away somewhere, so leave the pity party at the door. None of you know the ins and outs of all this shit like i do, I'm in the mix. THESE GUYS DON'T CARE. If they are being exploited, then they want to be exploited which takes away from the meaning of the word. These guys are predators just the same, just in a different form. They are seeking out this shit and they will drop you in a heartbeat as soon as they get bored with you and go spend their money on another chick. 

This is how I met my lawyer years ago. He answered an ad I was running and he wanted me to treat him like a dog. As soon as I answer the door, he said, please start to humiliate me. Tell me to go on all fours and treat me like shit. This isn't exactly the same thing but it's all bdsm. He searched me out. I was just a regular escort but this dude wanted some freaky shit. He was one of the town's top lawyers, featured on TV in high-profil cases. Don't tell me anything about this shit because I've been there done that. These guys aren't being exploited. They crave this shit and will go looking for it and pay top dollars to get their fetishes satisfied. No one is being hurt, only if as @Emerald says, if they're spending their bill money but why put that on the girls, it's not their responsibility.

[Princess Arabia]

16 minutes ago, WillCameron said:

I work with men who struggle with porn addiction. As others have said, a lot of them have very deep shame and feel like they deserve to be treated like garbage. I'm all for people having whatever thrills they want, but I know of guys who have spent 6 figures on prostitutes, OF, etc. It takes over their lives. I had a conversation with an escort and her perspective was that, "it's an exchange of services between two consenting adults," and then in the same conversation blamed capitalism. There is little empathy in some escorts and a lack of responsibility. I'm not foolish enough to make blanket claims about the industry, and I definitely don't think capitalism creates the highest consciousness affordances, but she isn't the only one who thinks like that. I think there is a healthy way to live even extreme kinks, but it wouldn't surprise me if the majority are not doing so.

This is not porn addiction.

[Princess Arabia]

Maybe when people stop blaming the women in these cases, these men will start taking responsibility for their sexual fetishes. We blame he scantily dressed woman for her being raped. We ostracize women and blame them for this stuff and these stings usually only target the women. Put these men responsible for their shit and leave these women alone. They are not responsible for men who love to whore down the town. They're just trying to eat. This shit will never end if we keep giving men a slap on the wrist. They know this, and they know they won't be looked down upon, that's why they keep doing it and they don't care. 

[bambi]

7 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

blah blah blah. You must use the word trauma the most on the forum. Doesn't it traumatize you when the food industry takes your money and robs you of nutrients. I'll be sexually traumatized for you honey if it makes you feel better. All I'm doing is pointing out something that I'm familiar with. Of course it's not in all cases, but most of these guys couldn't care less about you labelling them as the exploited. These perverts enjoy what they're doing and gets off on it. Nothing you say will change that. They know exactly what they're doing. Lawyers, doctors Indians and chiefs are all included. You don't know that these guys have their stash away somewhere, so leave the pity party at the door. None of you know the ins and outs of all this shit like i do, I'm in the mix. THESE GUYS DON'T CARE. If they are being exploited, then they want to be exploited which takes away from the meaning of the word. These guys are predators just the same, just in a different form. They are seeking out this shit and they will drop you in a heartbeat as soon as they get bored with you and go spend their money on another chick. 

This is how I met my lawyer years ago. He answered an ad I was running and he wanted me to treat him like a dog. As soon as I answer the door, he said, please start to humiliate me. Tell me to go on all fours and treat me like shit. This isn't exactly the same thing but it's all bdsm. He searched me out. I was just a regular escort but this dude wanted some freaky shit. He was one of the town's top lawyers, featured on TV in high-profil cases. Don't tell me anything about this shit because I've been there done that. These guys aren't being exploited. They crave this shit and will go looking for it and pay top dollars to get their fetishes satisfied. No one is being hurt, only if as @Emerald says, if they're spending their bill money but why put that on the girls, it's not their responsibility.

You are an escort? Absolutely now everything makes sense lol! My intuition is world class. I knew there was something deeply pathoogised in your view on sexualtiy and gender dynamics. Why wouldnt you acknowledge this before. You being in sex work has deeply warped your view of sexuality and gender dyanmics, and traumatised you, which Im sure you're aware

BTW 'pervert' is a judgement. 

No this is a total view from ignorance, probably stemming from your lack of ability to face or own your part in all this mistreatment of self and other. Whether or not these guys want it, enjoy it, can afford it or not, has no bearing on whether its healthy for you or for them. Its also not about assigning blame, whether you are to blame or they are to blame. Your essentially harming yourself and they are harming themselves, by engaging in this consensual sexual pathology.

Dont for a second equate legality or consent with integrity, healthy, holism, well-being or care. Everyone in that dynamic are ultimately losing long term whether they know it or not.

To say no one is being hurt, is such an utterly myopic justification.