What do u make of so called liberation / escaping rebirth and death?

[emil1234]

ive been delving into the subject the past few days, and the term has very different meanings depending on the tradition. from what i gather, the theravada buddhists believe you just merge into vast Nothingness / for ever non existence / deep sleep. 

Then there are people like Osho, who take the term Nirvana / Mukti / liberation to be a complete merging with all of existence. Existing for ever as the universe itself. This is much aligned with leos teachings.

I can't quite decipher what someone like Sadhguru means with the term liberation. I stumbled upon this article, and isolated it seems that to him Liberation is simply non existence https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/article/samadhi-to-go-beyond-existence 

It can be interpreted in different ways. there are other articles where he clearly states that all that is lost after Liberation is the individual identity, and that life itself goes on just being Life. Quite generally this seem to be the Hindu understanding of Liberation, and also other variants of buddhism, such as mahayana

to be fair im pretty mindfucked atm. seems like quite a bummer if the purpose of existence is to get rid of it lol. 

My take is that ultimately, whereever we end up, it has to be the same place that got us here in the first place. Say you dismantle your karma totally, and end up in non existence - whats to prevent that non existence from popping into existence again? it must be the same thing that spawned you in the first place

whats your guys' take on this?

Edited August 15 by emil1234

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

ive been delving into the subject the past few days, and the term has very different meanings depending on the tradition. from what i gather, the theravada buddhists believe you just merge into vast Nothingness / for ever non existence / deep sleep. 

Then there are people like Osho, who take the term Nirvana / Mukti / liberation to be a complete merging with all of existence. Existing for ever as the universe itself. This is much aligned with leos teachings.

I can't quite decipher what someone like Sadhguru means with the term liberation. I stumbled upon this article, and isolated it seems that to him Liberation is simply non existence https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/article/samadhi-to-go-beyond-existence 

It can be interpreted in different ways. there are other articles where he clearly states that all that is lost after Liberation is the individual identity, and that life itself goes on just being Life.

to be fair im pretty mindfucked atm. seems like quite a bummer if the purpose of existence is to get rid of it lol. 

whats your guys' take on this?

I posted a thread today  about Hindu and everything spiritual, they talk alot about what happens at Death in Detail.. With Sadhguru he doesn't like to talk about things that are not in ppl's experience, but he wrote a whole Book on Death, so its there..Basically if You get to Moksha, there is not individuality left behind, you merge with the Absolute, so that is Enlightenment, he says most that get Enlightened at the same moment they leave the body and merge, but there seems to be realms above this one, he doesn't talk about those too much, but others do.

The whole game of it is too stop the Dying and Rebirth cycle, allot of this has to do with Karma, which is the residual effect of all the actions you performed in the past lives times and this one, there are lots of actions You are performing right now that are unconscious too You, if You gain higher Consciousness then You dissolve all Your karma and are Enlightened, only the Masters can stay behind to do some work here...

 

 

Edited August 15 by Ishanga

[emil1234]

yes, im fairly certain that Sadhguru means that after Mukti you exist as pure consciousness / the universe forever. i recall him saying in videos "the buddha is just as alive today as he was 3500 years ago. hes just liberated from physical bondage" or something like that. 

he also uses the analogy of the soap bubble, where you blow that bubble, and the air inside merge with the air around.

furthermore he also explicitely says that life goes on, its just individual existence that ends.  so im fairly sure that hes view is that of a continued existence

[Ishanga]

15 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

yes, im fairly certain that Sadhguru means that after Mukti you exist as pure consciousness / the universe forever. i recall him saying in videos "the buddha is just as alive today as he was 3500 years ago. hes just liberated from physical bondage" or something like that. 

he also uses the analogy of the soap bubble, where you blow that bubble, and the air inside merge with the air around.

furthermore he also explicitely says that life goes on, its just individual existence that ends.  so im fairly sure that hes view is that of a continued existence

Yes, for us here as Human, we think we are the lining of the bubble (karmic substance, thoughts/thinking, body, everything we have accumulated) but we are the air inside, so once the bubble is burst (Enlightenment) that is it for individuality,

The video I just watched this morning, they talk about Lokas, or other realms, there is a realm where Rishis are, Enlightened being like Sadhguru that were here but are now there, but in these other lokas/realms time/space continuum is different, so its complex as is with everything in existence, all we can do is become more Conscious within ourselves and live to our highest possiblity, if that doesn't bring about Moksha in this life, it will help us in the next one and so forth, living a life of suffering and destruction is not good for us here or there! 

Edited August 15 by Ishanga

[Sugarcoat]

If eternal reincarnations is true then that means that sometime in all of eternity it has happened that you’ve reached enlightenment so it can’t be true that enlightenment would free you from the rebirth cycle because then you’d already be freed a long time ago 
 

I think unfortunately we are trapped in eternal reincarnations with maybe some “breaks” sometime but you won’t ever experience a break because it’s like deep sleep you’re unconscious so it’s basically just eternal reincarnations 

Edited August 15 by Sugarcoat

[emil1234]

10 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

If eternal reincarnations is true then that means that sometime in all of eternity it has happened that you’ve reached enlightenment so it can’t be true that enlightenment would free you from the rebirth cycle because then you’d already be freed a long time ago 
 

I think unfortunately we are trapped in eternal reincarnations with maybe some “breaks” sometime but you won’t ever experience a break because it’s like deep sleep you’re unconscious so it’s basically just eternal reincarnations 

yea that was basically my point. i think us being incarnated right now is proof that eternity equals incarnation

[emil1234]

13 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Yes, for us here as Human, we think we are the lining of the bubble (karmic substance, thoughts/thinking, body, everything we have accumulated) but we are the air inside, so once the bubble is burst (Enlightenment) that is it for individuality,

yes, this was my takeaway as well.

 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, emil1234 said:

yea that was basically my point. i think us being incarnated right now is proof that eternity equals incarnation

Ok I understood that on the second read. Yea it seems plausible at least 

[Ishanga]

10 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

yes, this was my takeaway as well.

 

What I find funny is that ppl accuse Sadhguru of beating around the bush, not giving details and such things,,, It all right here, very detailed, very simple to understand, and he relates in modern day language... Pretty easy to understand what is going on..

Desire is here withn Us, like Hunger and the Will to Survive another day, its just that Desire is at another level of Awareness, when You fix Survival Desire will manifest in another way, just see anyone that gets rich or success, does that complete their life? No they want to be more, that is Desire.. The Ultimate Desire is to be Boundless, Absolutely Free, this is very hard to do when there is a Body and Mind Complex to deal with and the Karmic substance mixed into it, so Moksha is Liberation, bursting of the Bubble, most do not want this, they just want a Happy and Healthy Life, it may go on like that, then You die and come back a bit more inline with the Moksha theme...

Edited August 15 by Ishanga

[Hojo]

Lifes like gods cellphone. Its lonely so it picks it up and gets lost in it only to put it down and realize it meant nothing. Then it picks it up again and plays for a bit and puts it down. The goal of spirituality is to stop wanting to pick up the phone.

There is something else.

Edited August 15 by Hojo

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, emil1234 said:

yes, im fairly certain that Sadhguru means that after Mukti you exist as pure consciousness / the universe forever. i recall him saying in videos "the buddha is just as alive today as he was 3500 years ago. hes just liberated from physical bondage" or something like that. 

he also uses the analogy of the soap bubble, where you blow that bubble, and the air inside merge with the air around.

furthermore he also explicitely says that life goes on, its just individual existence that ends.  so im fairly sure that hes view is that of a continued existence

Of course. Nobody is saying you will disappear.

You will remain, and everything else (that is not you) disappear 

[emil1234]

4 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Of course. Nobody is saying you will disappear.

You will remain, and everything else (that is not you) disappear 

read the article i linked, it could be interpreted as total non existence. specifically the section on mahasamadhi

although given sadhgurus other statements, i believe its to be interpreted as non existence in terms of individual identity

Edited August 15 by emil1234

[Javfly33]

2 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

read the article i linked, it could be interpreted as total non existence. specifically the section on mahasamadhi

YeahI read the article in the past. 

@emil1234 If non existence is the case, than that´s what you are I guess, no? 

[Keryo Koffa]

Or we're just looping around in confusion to build a solution for eternal fusion through material diffusion

Into a revolution of Earth's absolution, granting ourselves some timeless evolution, ever through illusion 

A necessary earthly intrusion, to synergize contribution in the limited distribution of our own constitution

Edited August 15 by Keryo Koffa

[Ishanga]

12 minutes ago, emil1234 said:

read the article i linked, it could be interpreted as total non existence. specifically the section on mahasamadhi

although given sadhgurus other statements, i believe its to be interpreted as non existence in terms of individual identity

Yes..There are two types of Karma, Prarabdha and Sanchita, Prarabdha is the whole warehouse of Karma built up for all the lifetimes per say, Sanchita is the allotted karma for this lifetime, if You burn thru the Sanchita this lifetime, you still have to deal with the rest of it, so another lifetime/rebirth will happen, and there is still the karma that is being created right now via all the actions taking place each day,,so its complex..That is why Bliss path is good, if Your naturally Blissful your "What about Me" is lessened or gone, then no more new karma is created..

With Mahasamahdi one burns it consciously thru Sadhana mostly, Sadhguru's wife did this, so that means in a way there is no more karma to deal with, no more Individual Identity at all, the drop in the ocean goes back into the Ocean...

Edited August 15 by Ishanga

[RedLine]

20 hours ago, emil1234 said:

 

to be fair im pretty mindfucked atm. seems like quite a bummer if the purpose of existence is to get rid of it lol. 

 

 

 Nothingness and Absolute/Being the whole Universe probably have the same taste, but I guess it is difficult to our mind to understand.

Edited August 16 by RedLine

[Atb210201]

Non existence is not the destination

Existence is also not the destination

It is none of these two dualities

It is something beyond existence and non existence

Dual Mind cannot grasp it because it's beyond duality

Edited August 16 by Atb210201

[Keryo Koffa]

@Atb210201 The infinite and transcendent within which both exist as potential

[Malekakisioannis]

You are eternal.-

[Breakingthewall]

I think sadhguru simply says that the ego dissolves and enlightenment is achieved, where the individual disappears and reality remains. existence continues, but without the self/other duality, which is the illusion that is created by karma. once this occurs, the following cycles of existence are non-dual, without the contraction of the self. 

It would be said that consciousness evolves in infinite parallels with different contents. An inevitable quality of infinity is that everything is infinite, that is, this experience is complete infinity, but there are infinitely many parallel experiences in all directions and they all evolve infinitely. In this human dimension we all share the illusion of duality and little by little some are forced to abandon it. All this seems to be a movement of the infinite to create a more conscious experience of itself, for which it must be divided to become aware of its division, and from there it can become aware of its unity.

Without the previous division, existence is unconscious of itself in this deep level, it needs division and suffering to gain depth and then dissolve the division to continue evolving infinitely, without the unpleasant illusory duality necessary at this stage. After this, there will be countless and unimaginable processes dictated by infinite intelligence to which consciousness will submit to follow its infinite movement.