What are the pros and cons of immigration? Is it always beneficial?

[integral]

As a Canadian I've experienced this first hand in the past 10 years housing costs have skyrocketed while the living wage has stayed pretty much the same due to massive levels of immigration. Canada's population is growing by over a million people a year through mostly immigration thanks to Justin Trudeau 9-year liberal rule.

This is a classic example of liberal idealism, the issue is because the population doubled in 10 years the number of houses stayed the same and so the cost of housing has become completely unaffordable.

I was completely naïve and unaware of how immigration could affect the economy until I lived it first hand.

You should fear massive levels of immigration if it's not handled properly by the government. Justin Trudeau failed to build housing to support the population explosion and so the cost of living has gone up to a ridiculous level.

There's likely additional dangers to immigration that are not obvious, in my local park it is filled with Stage blue Muslims all newly immigrated within the past 10 years, and all of them have children of course because their stage blue! I have nothing against Muslims but you're introducing less conscious people into the population in Mass and I have no idea how that affects the country.

Justin Trudeau is very likely going to lose the next election and a conservative will take power. The conservatives in Canada have had a very strong social media presence built on mostly attacking Justin Trudeau like little children.

This is a clip of Pierre Poilievre Who is going to replace Justin Trudeau in the next election. He's a classic pretending to be family values pretending to be Christian running against the liberal party who of course is not going to bring any good to the economy, and people voting from our just naive because they want to change.

--
Edit: Probably not related to immigration see comment bellow. 

 

Edited August 17 by integral

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, integral said:

the population doubled in 10 years the number of houses stayed the same

What nonsense are you saying?

Canada's population:

2014: 35.4 million

2024: 39.7 million

Why are you so eager to blame housing prices on immigrants? Where is the data?

[integral]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What nonsense are you saying?

Canada's population:

2014: 35.4 million

2024: 39.7 million

Why are you so eager to blame housing prices on immigrants? Where is the data?

You're right I was just lost with the YouTube propaganda.

https://claude.site/artifacts/bdd88bea-d768-41df-9645-5ca59e4d672f

In the past 70 years the population per house ratio has gone from 4.18 to 2.52. So the number of houses being built cannot keep up with the population growth.  

Income vs. Home Prices
- Canadian home prices have doubled in the last decade, while wages have only increased by 24%.
- The average income required to afford a home is much higher than the median family income.
- Toronto and Vancouver have particularly extreme housing prices, making homeownership unattainable for many young Canadians.

Population Density and Housing Supply
- Canada is a large country with a small population, but most people live in urban centers, increasing housing demand in cities.
- Immigration has fueled population growth, further straining housing supply.
- Canada has the lowest housing supply per capita in the G7, with significant shortages expected by 2030.
- Challenges like a lack of skilled labor and bureaucratic red tape hinder the construction of new homes.

Government and Policy Responses
- Canada has introduced measures like tax-sheltered savings accounts, foreign buyer bans, and vacancy taxes to address housing affordability.
- However, these measures have had limited success, and supply-side challenges persist.
- The imbalance of supply and demand has been worsened by low-interest rates, which encouraged investment in real estate.

Impact of Interest Rates and Debt
- Low-interest rates led to cheap mortgages, driving up real estate prices.
- Canadian households are now heavily indebted, with a record debt-to-income ratio.
- Rising interest rates have caused mortgage payments to soar, leading to financial strain for many homeowners.

The Role of Investors
- A significant portion of Canadian homes are owned by investors, particularly in cities like Vancouver.
- While foreign investment is often blamed, domestic investors have been the primary drivers of housing demand.
- The high demand and low supply have pushed prices to unsustainable levels.

The Threat of a Financial Crisis
- Canadian households are highly indebted, with mortgage debt making up a large portion of this.
- The Bank of Canada’s rate hikes have exacerbated affordability issues, with mortgage payments increasing significantly.
- Many Canadians with variable-rate mortgages are facing financial hardship due to rising rates.

Recourse Loans and Negative Amortization
- Most Canadian mortgages are recourse loans, meaning lenders can pursue personal assets if the mortgage isn’t paid off.
- Some Canadians are experiencing negative amortization, where their mortgage balances are increasing rather than decreasing.
- These issues highlight the potential for a worsening financial crisis if housing prices continue to fall.

Why Haven't Things Crashed Yet?
- Despite the financial strain, mortgage delinquency rates remain low, possibly due to Canadians using savings to cover payments.
- New property listings are down, which could keep prices elevated even if demand falls.
- The situation is unpredictable, with possible outcomes ranging from a market crash to a stabilization if interest rates are cut.

Personal Finance and Housing Affordability
- Canadians should focus on affordability and risk tolerance when considering buying property.
- Housing costs should ideally not exceed 32% of before-tax monthly income.
- Those unable to afford property in high-demand areas might consider less populated regions or other investment options.

Conclusion
- The Canadian housing market is in a precarious state, and without meaningful policy changes, the crisis could worsen.
- Individuals can take steps to protect themselves, such as consulting financial professionals and considering alternatives to homeownership.
- The video emphasizes the importance of careful financial planning in the face of an uncertain real estate market.

Edited August 14 by integral

[Buck Edwards]

Seems more like a Canadian problem rather than immigration. 

[integral]

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230927a-eng.htm

Quote

Close to 98% of the growth in the Canadian population from July 1, 2022, to July 1, 2023, came from net international migration, with 2% coming from the difference between births and deaths.

 

[integral]

Why can't someone build a interactive systemic map of the economy and political system so that it can be in real time updated and played with. I want one place where all the moving parts can be seen and experimented with. 

Edited August 14 by integral

[Leo Gura]

Real estate has skyrocketed in the US as well, but it's not because illegals are buying up all the houses, it's due to covid inflation, printing money, and excessive capitalism.

You have to be very careful about jumping to conclusions and attributing self-biased causes to such issues.

Causation in an economy is a very complex thing. It's never as simple as: more immigrants = higher prices.

Don't forget that immigrants contribute to your economy. If anything Canada's population is too low and ya'll aren't fucking enough.

Edited August 14 by Leo Gura

[questionreality]

I have actually been in Spain (Barcelona) and there the locals now have really turned anti-immigrant.

When I talked to the locals, they explained it for the same reason - due to skyrocketing of the housing costs. And most of the population in Barcelona is very left leaning.

And to most Canadians that I talked to think that Justin Trudeau is the worst prime minister that Canada has ever seen.

While I have considered my self a liberal for most of my life, I have came to understand how naive liberalism can be sometimes and that in some aspects conservative view points make sense.

Edited August 14 by questionreality

[Minini]

Inflation and real estate price increase are a global thing not a Canada thing. Of course conservatives will use every bit of chance to fearmonger and blame immigrants and minorities to deflect from the real reason it's not a new thing. However, I do agree there needs to be an immediate action plan to build more affordable housing to ease the housing crisis and put the brakes a little bit on immigration not because it has negative impact but to mitigate the rise of conservative hate that is storming the globe. 

[ICURBlessings]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Real estate has skyrocketed in the US as well, but it's not because illegals are buying up all the houses, it's due to covid inflation, printing money, and excessive capitalism.

You have to be very careful about jumping to conclusions and attributing self-biased causes to such issues.

Causation in an economy is a very complex thing. It's never as simple as: more immigrants = higher prices.

Don't forget that immigrants contribute to your economy. If anything Canada's population is too low and ya'll aren't fucking enough.

Thanks integral; and Leo;  -   for DEBUNKING the Disinformation that this thread began as.

I am grateful

Good JOB!

[EdgeGod900]

I think the Scandinavians(specifically Denmark) are much more strict with their immigration because of this. Tbh Canadians have a very "corporate"/Politically correct culture. They avoid seeming "racist" in exchange for truth sometimes. This ruins the quality of their political decisions.

Their Mosaic Culture is fake and pussy as shit. The Melting Pot culture of the US is much better in creating a healthier/authentic environment for immigrants and its citizens tbh.

Edited August 15 by EdgeGod900

[caelanb]

According to the above video immigration plays a part.

According to the above video Canada a residential housing issue.

 

[integral]

I'm fully aware of the Trap of blaming immigrants.

40 million people are in Canada and that numbers grows by 1 million a year from immigrants. This is insane growth.

333 million US population: 2.7 million immigrants yearly.

Canada Grows by 2.5 percent each year from immigrants.

US Grows By 0.8% each year from immigrants.

Canada infrastructure potentially cannot handle rapid expansion like that, while the US infrastructure doesn't need to adapt as fast.

---

When I made this post I thought that this time it was different, there might actually be some truth to too many immigrants. But it looks like it's only related to the usual economic scandals that the rich use to maximize profits.

Edited August 16 by integral

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, integral said:

and that numbers grows by 1 million a year from immigrants.

This is false. Canada takes in 500k immigrants per year.

You are engaging in biased and motivated reasoning here. You are using false data to try to backwards-rationalize your anti-immigrant worldview.

This is not a valid way to do politics.

[yetineti]

2 hours ago, integral said:

When I made this post I thought that this time it was different, there might actually be some truth to too many immigrants. But it looks like it's only related to the usual economic scandals that the rich use to maximize profits.

❤️❤️❤️

[koops]

Why?

Go take a walk in Barcelona, Brussels, Marseille, Paris, Stockholm... 

All the answers you need.

[EdgeGod900]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is false. Canada takes in 500k immigrants per year.

This is True on the surface level. But there were close to half a million study permits in 2023, and majority of these "international students" are just using these permits as a gateway to become a permanent resident in Canada.  

Most of them arent coming back home from their 3rd world countries, and why would they? Also experienced this first hand since im surrounded by these people and most, if not all, just want to get a PR and eventuallly become citizens.

 

So @integralis holistically correct to assume that 1million immigrants come to Canada a year since almost half a million become immigrants through the guise of "internation student."

 

This is why im more impressed with USA politics thsn Canadian politics, because the US isnt as beta cuck as Canada to allow for such opportunity to be abused by low conscious individuals. Also partially since Canadian universities are greedy as fuck.

Edited August 16 by EdgeGod900

[integral]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is false. Canada takes in 500k immigrants per year.

You are engaging in biased and motivated reasoning here. You are using false data to try to backwards-rationalize your anti-immigrant worldview.

This is not a valid way to do politics.

I'm not intentionally doing this. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230927a-eng.htm 

I'm reciting whatever statistics I'm seeing.

Quote

Canada's population increased by 1,158,705 people from July 1, 2022, to July 1, 2023, marking a 2.9% growth. This is the highest annual population growth rate recorded since 1957. The increase is largely driven by net international migration, which contributed to nearly 98% of this growth.

So it seems that we just hit a record high for one year and the average is half a million. 

I don't have a biased immigration view this is just speculation! I understand that it's multifaceted like you've been saying, my initial post at the top has already been corrected lol.

[enchanted]

On 14/08/2024 at 9:20 AM, integral said:

 

Justin Trudeau failed to build housing to support the population explosion and so the cost of living has gone up to a ridiculous level.

Is Justin Trudeau a carpenter? 

[enchanted]

Just as I thought it's Chinese bots dividing the population.....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poilievre-rally-kirkland-conservative-bots-amateur-1.7296988