Jordan Peterson is deranged

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Joshe said:

but I want to make sure you aren't painting me into green sjw box

I am saying you placed yourself in that box without realizing it yet.

I hope you break out of it some day.

If you want truth, then stop judging Musk. That's the price of truth.

Edited August 15 by Leo Gura

[Joshe]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am saying you placed yourself in that box without realizing it yet.

I hope you break out of it some day.

If you want truth, then stop judging Musk.

I'm trying to realize it but I can't. 

There is literally only one thing I condemn like this. It's mass deception. First it was it was Trump, now it's Trump and Elon, but ONLY because people are deceived. If people weren't deceived, I wouldn't care about Trump or Elon. I don't have any other political gripes besides this. Not even sure you can call it political. 

Given this, you still feel confident I'm stuck in green? 

Edited August 15 by Joshe

[Leo Gura]

@Joshe It's not that your statements are false per se, it's that you are overly focused on a small aspect of the situation. There is more to understanding Musk than focusing on his tweets or even his politics. Why would you reduce a complex phenomenon like Musk to politics?

[yetineti]

@Joshe

Your view is premised on others.

Whether or not you care about Elon or Trump must be independent from whether or not others are deceived.

At least, to see the whole picture.

Edited August 15 by yetineti

[Dan502]

There's a beautiful parallel between Peterson not listening to Elon and people also not listening to Elon in this thread about Peterson not listening to Elon.

When I say "not listening", Peterson himself as an ex-clinical psychologist will be well aware what this means. The interruptions, the judgement. But even he doesn't follow the rules in this interview. 

In his defense, it is "only" an interview but good interviews also require good conversation which requires good listening. And that's very difficult, for me, for Peterson, for everyone.

[Davino]

4 hours ago, Dan502 said:

In his defense, it is "only" an interview but good interviews also require good conversation which requires good listening.

Listening is a high skill. As you pointed out, very few individuals are able to listen, to absorb without filtering by their mind or plainly ignoring for them to speak next.

To speak inside others listening is the fruition of conversation skills, so it is allowing others to speak inside your listening.

I had this insight thanks to Nithyananda.

 

[questionreality]

7 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Oh, you mean like how you assumed the shit out of me yesterday and how you are constantly trying to pick arguments with people who just mind their own business because of your own projections?

It wasn't assumptions, here you confirmed once again that I was right.

 

7 hours ago, Something Funny said:

You mean like your judgements of the left or of trans people? That are so pervasive in your thinking that you can't shut up about it and keep starting the same debate about it here again and again?

So you want to go the whataboutism route? This last post of mine was not even directed at you, but here you decided to start some shit?

Stop pointing fingers at other people and take the damn responsibility. 

7 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Please don't drag slirituality into this. Two can play this game.

Right does virtue signal and does pretend to be something they are not. 

Right can't shut up about stage blue moral values and christianity, and how left is selfish and hedonistic, while voting for the most hedonistic rapist and con artist that they could find in America.

Yes indeed right is also guilty of virtue signaling, but left specifically promotes the values of being tolerant, non-judgmental and inclusive. Right doesn't do that, so you don't expect from the right to be those things.

The left is the same as the right in that regard (judgmental, and only tolerant when it wants to be), but the difference is that the left pretends to be those things, when it's actually not.

 

7 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Left never pretended to be absoultely non judgemental and uncondotionally loving. Do you expect them to be angels or something? 

You have a mess in your head, and you are confusing spiritual values that people are talking about on this forum with the left.

 

 

 

Then you don't really know the left or your own SJW types. They constantly try to pretend that they have the moral high ground and accuses others of being judgmental - you are blind to this, because you yourself are part of the bubble.

[Something Funny]

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

It wasn't assumptions, here you confirmed once again that I was right.

Confirmed what?

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

So you want to go the whataboutism route?

I am just pointing out crators in your logic.

1 hour ago, questionreality said:

but left specifically promotes the values of being tolerant, non-judgmental and inclusive

Left promotes being tolerant and inclusive towards people that are different from you : people from different cultures, races, people with different sexual orientations, etc.

Show me an example where "left" says that you are supposed to be tolerant towards bigots and bullies?

I am honestly not sure what's your issue here and why you got so stuck on this loint. You need to have intelligence of a coffee table to not see the difference. 

[enchanted]

Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson 

 

Edited August 15 by enchanted

[questionreality]

2 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Left promotes being tolerant and inclusive towards people that are different from you : people from different cultures, races, people with different sexual orientations, etc.

Show me an example where "left" says that you are supposed to be tolerant towards bigots and bullies?

I am honestly not sure what's your issue here and why you got so stuck on this loint. You need to have intelligence of a coffee table to not see the difference. 

People who are different from you are also those who think different, and have different opinions, no?

Or is to you the only difference lies in the skin color of the person or their gender?

What it clearly shows, is that you actually have no idea what truly means to be "tolerant", "inclusive" and "non-judgmental".

Elon Musk is nowhere close to a "bigot" and a "bully" .

That is your own subjective opinion and a projection, which has nothing to do with reality.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, questionreality said:

Elon Musk is nowhere close to a "bigot" and a "bully" .

The proper term for Musk is self-absorbed.

[questionreality]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The proper term for Musk is self-absorbed.

That is one of his traits for sure 

[aurum]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:58 PM, Joshe said:

But in reality, they do, and Elon exploits it. I don't like that exploitation. It seems like you're saying you're aware of the exploitation I'm aware of, but it doesn't bother you the same way it bothers me. Is that right? 

The point being made here is that there is more to Musk than exploitation. And if you just focus on the exploitation and other critiques you have, you lose sight of the bigger picture.

It also helps to take into account just how ubiquitous exploitation is in the world. That should provide some perspective.

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, aurum said:

The point being made here is that there is more to Musk than exploitation. And if you just focus on the exploitation and other critiques you have, you lose sight of the bigger picture.

haha. Yes, I figured out what was going on. I was making a very specific point and intentionally omitted much about reality, including the sun and the stars, because it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. That doesn't mean the sun and the stars are missing from my perspective. 

Maybe my communications conveyed things I didn't intend or maybe you incorrectly assumed that my perspective was limited because I was focusing on a singular aspect. But I was focusing on a singular aspect, not because I sit around and focus only on it, but because I was wondering why seemingly intelligent people would omit an obvious truth, so I was just trying to figure that out and to do that, I had to focus on the singular aspect. 

4 hours ago, aurum said:

It also helps to take into account just how ubiquitous exploitation is in the world. That should provide some perspective.

You're doing it again! I appreciate if you're being helpful but why are you assuming I don't have perspective on this? How do you know I don't have more perspective on it than you? You've assumed way too much. Is it possible you used a faulty heuristic? 😂 Joking bro! It's all good. 

[aurum]

12 hours ago, Joshe said:

why are you assuming I don't have perspective on this? How do you know I don't have more perspective on it than you?

If you can thoroughly explain why Elon’s exploitation is necessary or even a good thing, then I will believe you.

Until then, it’s going to be hard for me to see you as anything other than just another leftist / SJW.

[Joshe]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

If you can thoroughly explain why Elon’s exploitation is necessary or even a good thing, then I will believe you.

Until then, it’s going to be hard for me to see you as anything other than just another leftist / SJW.

Sure, I’ll qualify myself.

It’s not necessary but you think it is because it can’t be otherwise. Maybe you mean “inevitable”? Everything exist for everything else. Evolution is very slow. No one controls it and it unfolds based on previous unfoldments. As a species and civilization, we are still highly undeveloped, and to an extent that is lost on 99.999% of the population. Elon exists for the same reason McDonald’s does. Because they were natural manifestations that stemmed from earlier manifestations. They will continue to exist until the aspects of evolution reject them over long periods of time. My mind understood this 1.5 decades ago and much has been added to it since. 

I know you would like to expand upon the broad strokes above but I don’t care to because you have your world and I have mine. Because I don’t fixate on the same facet of reality as you at any given time does not mean I’m oblivious to the facet. 

I hope you’ll adjust your heuristic. 

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Joshe said:

It’s not necessary but you think it is because it can’t be otherwise. Maybe you mean “inevitable”?

No, I meant what I said.

To put it more broadly: what is the function of exploitation?

[Joshe]

Growth. Advancement. Survival mechanisms. Evolution. The problem is, you want me to zoom in on what you are zoomed in on and since I’m not, you are invoking near infinite complexity and acting as if since I have not acknowledged the existence of such complexity through my keyboard, that I am oblivious to such complexity. As predicted above, you want to expand upon the broad strokes and the reason is because you want me to come into the constructs of your world, which arrogantly and ignorantly assumes the constructs in my world are inferior or non-existent. 

You are proving my point.

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

Growth. Advancement. Survival mechanisms. Evolution. The problem is, you want me to zoom in on what you are zoomed in on and since I’m not, you are invoking near infinite complexity and acting as if since I have not acknowledged the existence of such complexity through my keyboard, that I am oblivious to such complexity. As predicted above, you want to expand upon the broad strokes and the reason is because you want me to come into the constructs of your world, which arrogantly and ignorantly assumes the constructs in my world are inferior or non-existent. 

You are proving my point.

It was a test to see if you could explore the topic of exploitation without a social justice bias.

I place an emphasis on this because it’s necessary for conscious politics. Very few people can do it. 

[Joshe]

Can you admit what happened here? 

You said Elon aims to help the world, I called BS and said he's mainly driven by ego. Leo quickly criticized my comment as simplistic stage green thinking. You joined in on that frame and tone, framing my critiques as those of an ignorant SJW/green needing broader perspective.

You and Leo used an embarrassingly faulty heuristic that looks something like: "no one from orange or yellow would critique Musk in this way, so whoever does so is green, plus, I've seen lots of greens do it before". 

In the early stages of this convo, I assumed you and Leo weren't operating on such hasty and ill-formed assumptions but after a bit of digging, turns out I was wrong. That was exactly the case and Emerald or Diamond even called it out, but I wasn't sure.

When I said "You can choose your biases", you missed what I was saying. Have you chosen your life purpose? If so, you are biased! I have consciously chosen to demonize Musk because I think he deserves it. I don't think we should sit back and call him benevolent and allow his deceptions to go unchecked. I have a whole calculus for this, which you don't have and aren't interested in, just like I am not interested in your calculus to overlook his deceptions. You arrogantly assume that if I saw what you saw, it would supercede everything I see and my entire perspective would be upgraded.

The issue is you have assumed I'm ignorant. I guess let's just agree to disagree unless you think we can make some progress. 

Edited August 18 by Joshe